peacefulpete

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Posts by peacefulpete

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  60

  What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.

  my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.

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  peacefulpete

  We haven't mentioned the widely held Jewish belief in reincarnation. The great Jewish thinker Philo of Alexandria (contemporary of Paul) discussed these concepts as if they are not in genuine tension. Immortal soul, death of the soul, resurrection, reincarnation were eloquently woven into a single philosophy. Mind you it makes little sense, but then we find in Paul a similar confusion.
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  60

  What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.

  my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.

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  peacefulpete

  TonusOH...I agree with your logic that many of these items "could ' have happened. But none of them are established facts as was claimed. Many 'historical Jesus' writers use a similar logic as you have, by eliminating the impossible, they imagine some historical core. That approach however fails to appreciate the creativity of the author of Mark, the role of OT midrash and the boastful nature of Paul.

  "Paul" is claimed to have been a highly recognized Pharisee but at the same time claimed to have been sent on a mission by the Sadducean High Priest. Highly unlikely. Many of the doctrinal issues that inspired contempt for Christians were equally divisive among those groups. Also Roman law forbid local authorities conducting executions without their endorsement. Making the Acts stoning story improbable and illegal. Also Acts has Paul (Saul) being a resident of Jerusalem participating in the stoning by the Sanhedrin. Either we have Paul's backstory being fabricated post-Paul or he was exaggerating to impress his audience. Given the contradicting versions in Acts and the Paulines, we have to recognize that either is possible, and maybe a mix of the two.
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  60

  What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.

  my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.

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  peacefulpete

  As far as the resurrection goes, most scholars (skeptic, Jewish, Christian etc.) who publish in this area agree on these minimum facts that are well attested to in history.

  You keep saying that despite having patiently been shown otherwise.

  Of your list 5 and 9 can be regarded as well established facts.

  5. The disciples (language drawn from the Gospels, "certain Jewish believers" would be more accurate) had experiences which they believed to be the risen Jesus (Christ).

  9. The church was born and grew.

  The rest of the list is in dispute as pious fiction drawn from OT midrash or contradicted by the NT itself or early documents.
  
  
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  10

  Wise counsel for JW's in latest WT

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  june 2023 study watchtower p. 13, par 15 - “we will not be fooled if we “make sure of or, “test” all things.”...we need to test what we hear or what we read to determine whether it is genuine.....instead of naively accepting what others the org say, we use our thinking ability to compare what we read or what we hear with what the bible and jehovah’s organization say.”.

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  peacefulpete

  Ding ...exactly. That's not even a subtext. That is exactly what they are saying.

  "If you hear some other interpretation, all you have to do is compare it to what we have said on the matter to know whether to believe it."

  At the same time it perpetuates the illusion for individual JWs that they 'know' the Bible and have arrived at the WT teachings through study and research.

  It's an old used car salesman approach, " I don't want to pressure you, go ahead and get others' best prices, we're sure you will be back... But don't wait too long this car will be gone soon."
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  60

  What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.

  my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  peacefulpete

  The Bible speaks of a consciousness after death, as well the more traditional Canannite vague concept of shades. It speaks of a physical resurrection as well as a spirit resurrection. There was no one single doctrine among Jews. Every culture they interacted with left an impression.

  RESURRECTION - JewishEncyclopedia.com

  Anyone who imagines a single consistent message in the Bible is ignoring at least half of it or has to become creative and divide the people into classes.
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  120

  Index of Evidence for Evolution Threads

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  re-posting this for reference.. #1 protein functional redundancy comparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things..

  #2 dna functional redundancy comparison of the dna that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy..

  #3 ervs endogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins..

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  peacefulpete

  I strongly encourage anyone to read the Scientific American article posted by Fisherman. The scientific community quickly recognized a fossil dubbed Archaeoraptor by the National geographic magazine, as a skillful composite of genuine fossils. Including some new to science. Unfortunately, NatGeo, was rushed to presses and included the composite "assembled" specimen in an article about feathered dinosaurs. Their embarrassing immediate retraction was widely circulated.
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  171

  Mass Shooting at Kingdom Hall in Hamburg, Germany

  by EdenOne in

  1. social
  2. current

  mass shooting at a kingdom hall in hamburg, germany this evening.

  at least 6 or 7 killed, dozens injured.

  single shooter on the run, police doesn't rule out more shooters.

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  peacefulpete

  So everyone outside your belief system is "evil" and "guilty" and should be "punished" with death? If you believe that, you are a dangerous extremist.

  Extremists distort and misuse the natural human desire for peace by dehumanizing those outside a small group identity by using labels like evil and unworthy.
  
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  171

  Mass Shooting at Kingdom Hall in Hamburg, Germany

  by EdenOne in

  1. social
  2. current

  mass shooting at a kingdom hall in hamburg, germany this evening.

  at least 6 or 7 killed, dozens injured.

  single shooter on the run, police doesn't rule out more shooters.

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  peacefulpete

  Any belief system that claims to bring peace by killing everyone who disagrees is extremist.

  
  I had a discussion with a visiting JW gal few years ago. She actually was using recent terror attack as a sign of the end. I asked her if she was aware that Isis believes they will bring peace and moral purity by their killing. She said yes.

  How then can you see them as terrorists, I asked, don't you feel the same way?

  She insisted the difference was God was doing the killing.

  I asked if God asked you to do it with him, wouldn't you? According to the Bible God told his worshippers in the past to kill entire civilizations.

  She paused.

  So to worship the God of the Bible you must be willing to kill people.

  There is no moral superiority to endorsing the killing of billions over doing the actual killing. The only difference is when Christianity spawned, the Romans had control.
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  11

  04-2022 Q from Readers on Divorce

  by Rattigan350 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  any comments on the 04/2022 question from readers on divorce and remarriage.. "if a christian divorces his wife without scriptural grounds and then marries another person, how does the congregation view the previous marriage and the new marriage?".

  why does that even matter how the congregation views anything?

  they should be minding their own business.. if people move to a different area, the congregation wouldn't even know about.. (if a guy remarries a woman with the same first name, she would end up with the same name and no one would know).

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  peacefulpete

  Thanks. Could anyone locate the Dec1995-1996 (I'm pretty sure) direction? It did not equivocate but said something like "he would not qualify because of being a husband of more than one wife". If it is no longer in the CD or whatever you use these days, It must have been scrubbed.
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  120

  Index of Evidence for Evolution Threads

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  re-posting this for reference.. #1 protein functional redundancy comparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things..

  #2 dna functional redundancy comparison of the dna that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy..

  #3 ervs endogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins..

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  peacefulpete

  edited