Posts by peacefulpete

7

why crown of thorns

by peacefulpete in

most here know that story elements in the jesus story are drawn from the ot.

countless elements of gospels are cut straight from the descriptions of ot characters like moses, joshua, samuel et.al.

an interesting suggestion involves a passage that was the very last straw for me years ago.

peacefulpete

As for Jesus crown of thorns I doubt the gospel writers thought of Judges 9.

I'm seeing a lot of parallel in theme that would seem quite suggestive. The thorny King offering shade or fiery destruction. The context where it appears was precisely the choosing of a King over the Israelites. As such it was unlikely to be unknown to the writer of Mark. Additionally we know the Gospel writers were aware of Judges 13 as it was used by Luke for the annunciation of the miraculous birth of Samson, as well as the most probable source for "he will be called a Nazarene" in Matt owing to the conflation of Nazarite with the city of Nazareth.

All this in my mind, 1.the familiarity of the Gospel writers with Judges, 2.the theme of this particular story about appointing a 'King of the Israelites' and 3. the description of him as a King who would use fiery destruction, convinces me the Gospel writers drew from Judges 9 for the story element of giving Jesus a crown of thorns and mockingly have him called "King of the Jews".

17 They put a purple robe on him, then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on him. 18 And they began to call out to him, “Hail, king of the Jews!”

40

Goodbye yhwh-Goodbye jesus

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

interesting report in a oxford university blog - the world is becoming less religious, (hurray!!!).

quote: "an analysis of religious trends from 1981 to 2007 in 49 countries containing 60% of the world’s population did not find a global resurgence of religion—most high-income countries were becoming less religious—however, it did show that in 33 of the 49 countries studied, people had become more religious (norris and inglehart, 2011).

but since 2007, things have changed with surprising speed.

peacefulpete

And if it is survival of the fittest why love your neighbour as yourself?

That false dilemma can only be persuasive to someone who hasn't understood what survival of the fittest means. First, there are many levels to being 'fittest'. Strong bones and teeth may be one example in a given circumstance but strong maternal instincts may also define 'fitness' for survival when situations favor that. Reciprocity, altruism, group kinship, all of these define 'fitness' for survival for social animals. These are the very traits of neighborly love. The better we reflect on the value of these qualities and how they got us so far already, the farther humans will progress away from simple lists of rules and prohibitions offered by religions.

40

Goodbye yhwh-Goodbye jesus

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

interesting report in a oxford university blog - the world is becoming less religious, (hurray!!!).

quote: "an analysis of religious trends from 1981 to 2007 in 49 countries containing 60% of the world’s population did not find a global resurgence of religion—most high-income countries were becoming less religious—however, it did show that in 33 of the 49 countries studied, people had become more religious (norris and inglehart, 2011).

but since 2007, things have changed with surprising speed.

peacefulpete

I should add that the most successful religions have at their core an irrational, a counterintuitive element. Stories of the impossible and illogical demands (not eating certain foods, killing your children) satisfy the worshiper that what they are practicing is beyond human in meaning. The Gnostic faiths created layers on layers of cryptic language just for that purpose. One of the main reasons Christianity is in decline is the attempt to rationalize it and defend it. Had it rather added even more mystery and fancifulness it might have held up better.

40

Goodbye yhwh-Goodbye jesus

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

interesting report in a oxford university blog - the world is becoming less religious, (hurray!!!).

quote: "an analysis of religious trends from 1981 to 2007 in 49 countries containing 60% of the world’s population did not find a global resurgence of religion—most high-income countries were becoming less religious—however, it did show that in 33 of the 49 countries studied, people had become more religious (norris and inglehart, 2011).

but since 2007, things have changed with surprising speed.

peacefulpete

The perennial debate about ethics and religion.

Step one Define ethics:. Standards of behavior that provide stability and cohesion to society

Step 2 define religion:....Reverence and rite directed to a numinous (mysterious and awe-inspiring) "other".

Step 3 explain why 1 cannot exist without 2 .... Some say without fear of supernatural punishment ethics cannot exist. Why? Is ethics the product of the avoidance of pain? If so then ethics are reduced to a most animal level and would not seem to require a numinous other to understand. Is ethics the product of the promise of reward? Then ethics are self serving and again would not seem to require a numinous other to understand. Some say ethics must be superhuman to be trustworthy. This then invites the question of how do we know an ethic is superhuman? The ethic must be able to be rationally defended as superhuman lest imposters feign superhuman. If therefore rational humans can determine the rationality of a superhuman ethic then do the humans need the superhuman? No.

In other words as soon as you admit you can defend the ethics as being rational and valuable you erase the need for a supernatural source. Humans are quite capable of exercising good judgement about ethics and value. The fact that they don't all agree on a given topic reflects the differences in perspective more than a difference in values. The abortion issue is a classic. For many the potential to become a human is equated with being a human. For others the potential to become a human is just that and something that the mother has the right to determine. There will always be some issues beyond consensus. Religion, or more accurately each religion, pretends to offer clarity but actually cannot be rationally argued when challenged. It is in these very areas of debate that religion fails to appear supernatural.

70

Is it possible for any Country to have “Reasonable” Gun Laws? What would they be?

by pistolpete in

so the new biden/harris gun policies are starting to appear.

it’s not clear yet, what they will be.. some suggestions; confiscate all guns.------buyback programs in each state.. there is much talk on social media that if this happens, the pandemic, + all the riots, + all the damaged property, + all the annual murders in america, - put together-will be like a sunday afternoon picnic, compared to all the deaths and property damage that will result because of “civil uprising” by millions of 2nd amendments advocates and just plain gun lovers.

americans love guns!.

peacefulpete

I fully empathize with the cops. My wife works in a police dept. They are terrified every time they pull someone over or approach someone loitering it will get them shot. Proliferation of guns, even high capacity guns has produced a cop culture of pulling out the gun first. They have become seen as part of the problem as a result. It's a viscous cycle, more guns on the street means more people feel the need to have more guns, even more guns on the street means more cops overreacting with guns which leads to more contempt for their efforts to keep us safe. Its just not helpful to just focus on one aspect of the problem.

70

Is it possible for any Country to have “Reasonable” Gun Laws? What would they be?

by pistolpete in

so the new biden/harris gun policies are starting to appear.

it’s not clear yet, what they will be.. some suggestions; confiscate all guns.------buyback programs in each state.. there is much talk on social media that if this happens, the pandemic, + all the riots, + all the damaged property, + all the annual murders in america, - put together-will be like a sunday afternoon picnic, compared to all the deaths and property damage that will result because of “civil uprising” by millions of 2nd amendments advocates and just plain gun lovers.

americans love guns!.

peacefulpete

Many gun proponents no longer even frame their arguments around hunting or sport shooting.
The Second Amendment was not about hunting or sport shooting.

I understand that, but it was acknowledged that the spirit of the Amendment was that there needed to be legitimate use. It was recognized by everyone that the Amendment's specific purpose of militias was no longer relevant however the freedom to own guns for legitimate use was enshrined in the amendment. Legitimate use and competence were the issues that shaped gun law for many years. Overwhelming majority of Americans agree that we have moved away from that rational discussion it used to be, to one driven by political fear and conspiracy.

I should add that I own a 20 gauge used by my uncle for deer hunting. I've shot 2 rabid racoons and chased coyotes away with it. I'm not against legitimate use.

7

why crown of thorns

by peacefulpete in

most here know that story elements in the jesus story are drawn from the ot.

countless elements of gospels are cut straight from the descriptions of ot characters like moses, joshua, samuel et.al.

an interesting suggestion involves a passage that was the very last straw for me years ago.

peacefulpete

The parable itself was pretty certainly dropped in this narrative by an editor because it kinda relates thematically. Remove it (vs8-15) and the narrative reads perfectly unbroken. But that is just another example of how the OT was stitched together from diverse material.

Another interesting point is the word for 'bush' used in Exodus occurs nowhere else and might have been a scribal error very early. 'סנה‎ seneh' has long been assumed to mean a thorn bush but the similarity to 'סיני‎ sinai' the name of the holy mountain (aka Horeb) reasonably suggests a scribal error.. Moses was told to remove his sandals as he was standing on holy ground at the base of Yahweh's holy mount Horeb/Sinai. That detail was always odd if the story actually featured a burning bush, just why was the ground holy?? But if Moses stood next to the burning mount Sinai and spoke to Yahweh it makes more sense in context.

If this is a correct reconstruction, the burning bush story was then meant to be a burning mountain story. But if the scribal error hadn't happened the writer of Judges couldn't have used it in the parable and the writer of Mark would not have had Jesus get a crown of thorns.

.

70

Is it possible for any Country to have “Reasonable” Gun Laws? What would they be?

by pistolpete in

so the new biden/harris gun policies are starting to appear.

it’s not clear yet, what they will be.. some suggestions; confiscate all guns.------buyback programs in each state.. there is much talk on social media that if this happens, the pandemic, + all the riots, + all the damaged property, + all the annual murders in america, - put together-will be like a sunday afternoon picnic, compared to all the deaths and property damage that will result because of “civil uprising” by millions of 2nd amendments advocates and just plain gun lovers.

americans love guns!.

peacefulpete

Joeyjojo,,, thanks for the link. There are many things that a majority of Americans would support that would lessen gun violence. But I fear we have passed the point where such things can even be discussed. Many gun proponents no longer even frame their arguments around hunting or sport shooting. It is openly argued the need to be able to kill people, even kill our own military personnel if they are being lead by a Democrat President. The gun manufacturers have successfully woven their narrative into the political fabric.

I will share a story that just happened to my wife and I this summer. We hired a man to remove about 30 trees and clear the land. It was a nightmare. To keep it short, he said insane things to my wife, cut a tree across the powerline, pulled his sign up and took off. I had learned since hiring him that he was a former cop and had mental health issues. Knowing this, when he took off after taking out everyone's power, I called his number after removing the tree and left a message saying I did not want him to return in no uncertain terms but because he had done about half the job I would send a check for 1/2 the agreed amount. I did this in hopes he would just forget about us. I didn't hear from him for 4 months then got a letter saying he was suing me for a fantastic imaginary amount. It went to court and I won of course but his mental instability was very evident in court. I was told by a local cop to get a gun and put it under our bed. 3 months later he shoots and kills a man in the street with a shortened shotgun and is now facing a murder charge. This is America. We knew he had mental health issues but no one dared to protect society by taking his guns. Instead the cops tell me to also get a gun and shoot him if he comes. It took only months and he kills someone in the street. He will probably get off with a good attorney. If you are in Wisconsin you may have read about this case this fall.

7

why crown of thorns

by peacefulpete in

most here know that story elements in the jesus story are drawn from the ot.

countless elements of gospels are cut straight from the descriptions of ot characters like moses, joshua, samuel et.al.

an interesting suggestion involves a passage that was the very last straw for me years ago.

peacefulpete

Most here know that story elements in the Jesus story are drawn from the OT. Countless elements of Gospels are cut straight from the descriptions of OT characters like Moses, Joshua, Samuel et.al. An interesting suggestion involves a passage that was the very last straw for me years ago. The last meeting I attended Judges 9 was in the weekly Bible reading. The bizarre story inserted in the text has 4 plants discussing who should become king. Fig tree, Olive tree, grape vine and thorn bush. The verse that I found just so over the top obviously wrong was when the vine says:

‘Should I give up my wine, which cheers both gods and humans, to hold sway over the trees?’

But that's another story. The point of this thread is the conclusion. The thorn bush accepts his role as King but pledges fire upon anyone who resists him.

8 One day the trees went out to anoint a king for themselves. They said to the olive tree, ‘Be our king.’
9 “But the olive tree answered, ‘Should I give up my oil, by which both gods and humans are honored, to hold sway over the trees?’
10 “Next, the trees said to the fig tree, ‘Come and be our king.’
11 “But the fig tree replied, ‘Should I give up my fruit, so good and sweet, to hold sway over the trees?’
12 “Then the trees said to the vine, ‘Come and be our king.’
13 “But the vine answered, ‘Should I give up my wine, which cheers both gods and humans, to hold sway over the trees?’
14 “Finally all the trees said to the thornbush, ‘Come and be our king.’
15 “The thornbush said to the trees, ‘If you really want to anoint me king over you, come and take refuge in my shade; but if not, then let fire come out of the thornbush and consume the cedars of Lebanon!’

Its not hard to see the writer here was drawing on the Moses and burning bush story. But had the writer of Mark drawn upon this quaint parable for the crown of thorns detail in his story? I know some have also seen a solar element in the crown with rays/thorns, and solar motifs do lay behind certain theophanic descriptions of Jesus but I think the writer in this setting was drawing specifically from OT passages to have significance to more initiated readers. The author's King fittingly wears a crown of thorns (as opposed to figs leaves or olive branches) to hint at his offer to provide shade or face his fiery anger.

70

Is it possible for any Country to have “Reasonable” Gun Laws? What would they be?

by pistolpete in

so the new biden/harris gun policies are starting to appear.

it’s not clear yet, what they will be.. some suggestions; confiscate all guns.------buyback programs in each state.. there is much talk on social media that if this happens, the pandemic, + all the riots, + all the damaged property, + all the annual murders in america, - put together-will be like a sunday afternoon picnic, compared to all the deaths and property damage that will result because of “civil uprising” by millions of 2nd amendments advocates and just plain gun lovers.

americans love guns!.

peacefulpete

For those interested in the stated policy ambitions: Joe Biden's Plan to End Gun Violence | Joe Biden for President