Pioneer...I was hoping you'd see this thread. I find your comment insightful as always. Mebaqqer2 is focusing on the literary mechanics not the theology so much. Have you looked at the proposed structure?
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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Rekindled Light — The Narrative Structure of the Hexaemeron (Genesis 1:1–31)
by Mebaqqer2 ini used to comment here many years ago when i had an interest in biblical research in relation to jehovah’s witnesses.
these days my biblical research is little concerned with jehovah’s witnesses.
i feel my time is better spent researching the diachronistic development of the biblical text and ascertaining what the biblical writers and editors intended in the times in which they lived.. i have recently placed a summary diagram for a paper that i have written with original research entitled the narrative structure of the hexaemeron on academia.edu.
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Funny Money
by peacefulpete ini ran across this piece of history again and thought i'd share it before i forget it again.
we discussed the story in mark featuring the image of caesar on a coin as setup for the famous line, "give caesar's things to caesar...".
the writer was apparently unaware that the roman coinage circulating in judea did not have the usual image of caesar but rather depicted barley or palms and such and was often minted in judea.
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peacefulpete
Regarding the coin in the fish story, it begs explanation. Why not simply have Peter miraculously produce one from his pocket for example? Stories like these have symbolism in many cases. Was the very Jewish Matthean author of the story making some statement about the temple and Jesus now lost on us? Or was he drawing upon a larger body of folklore involving animals and treasure, as there are many ancient examples. Some have suggested the ancient famous Polycrates's ring story might be behind it. Polycrates (a real person) is told to cast away what one most loves to have happiness. He goes out to sea throws his gold ring in the water. Sometime later a fisherman brings him a prize fish which has the gold ring inside. The moral of that tale was doom. Was the doom of the Temple implied? Probably not. But maybe the idea of a fish delivering a valuable was rolling around in his head as a result.
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Funny Money
by peacefulpete ini ran across this piece of history again and thought i'd share it before i forget it again.
we discussed the story in mark featuring the image of caesar on a coin as setup for the famous line, "give caesar's things to caesar...".
the writer was apparently unaware that the roman coinage circulating in judea did not have the usual image of caesar but rather depicted barley or palms and such and was often minted in judea.
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peacefulpete
Of course, the silver denarius in any other part of the empire had Caesars image, it was just not in Judea. The Herodian coinage included only small coppers. The Romans gave locals the ability to mint small coins for local trade with wide latitude as to the appearance unless it made claims of independence I'd have to believe. What is surprising is that the author of Mark assumes the denarius coins all had the image of Caesar when it would have been unusual at that time and place. This was changed after 70. As I said it is interesting considering the tradition that Mark was written in Rome and of course the chapter 13 references to the fall of 70CE. You are free to understand the story any way you wish.
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Funny Money
by peacefulpete ini ran across this piece of history again and thought i'd share it before i forget it again.
we discussed the story in mark featuring the image of caesar on a coin as setup for the famous line, "give caesar's things to caesar...".
the writer was apparently unaware that the roman coinage circulating in judea did not have the usual image of caesar but rather depicted barley or palms and such and was often minted in judea.
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peacefulpete
Many have observed the Matt 17 story about the temple tax is unique. There Jesus tells Peter to cast a hook into the sea and the first fish would have a stater (Greek) coin.
(Despite many Christian sites identifying the coin, it is uncertain what the author intended as "stater" simple meant 'weight' and may have been a slang? expression for the later approximate equivalent Roman tetradrachm. I was surprised at the size of the Tyrian shekel, it is nearly exactly the silver weight of an old British half-crown or US half dollar, so the fish in the story was a pretty nice catch.)
There is no description of the success/fulfillment. For this reason and the self-serving and clearly fanciful nature of the miracle, many have understood the story as intended parable in some early form but got rewritten as a narrative. (like the cursed tree story) Since we have no other version to compare, (not in other versions of the Gospel) we will never know.
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Is there really a Bible rule against sex without marriage?
by Halcon inregarding the poster from jw headquarters, who claimed that the gb would eventually loosen the rules regarding sex.
the question is, is there really a bible rule explicitly prohibiting sex without marriage?
because this would be the only possible reason why loosening those rules would even come up in a discussion.
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peacefulpete
dogs and cats living together...mass hysteria
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What is the Best Way to Reach Out to My JW Brother?
by ApostolicJesus93 ini am not a jw, nor have i ever been.
i'm an apostolic pentecostal.
i do have an older half-brother who is about 13 years my senior.
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peacefulpete
In my opinion, just call and say a friendly hello, things will develop naturally. Don't assume he will resist talking with nonJW family. Most of us kept at least a polite relationship with relatives. Life is complicated and motives are not always what is assumed. Don't talk church or Bible. It will shut down any normal conversation. As a Pentecostal, that might be a challenge. Be aware that as strongly as you believe what you do, he believes what he does. For an hour just be family.
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Is there really a Bible rule against sex without marriage?
by Halcon inregarding the poster from jw headquarters, who claimed that the gb would eventually loosen the rules regarding sex.
the question is, is there really a bible rule explicitly prohibiting sex without marriage?
because this would be the only possible reason why loosening those rules would even come up in a discussion.
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peacefulpete
I would argue that it is, but the Bible is silent, preferring to focus on proving how much a girl bleeds on her first night.
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I Guess I'll Tell My John DeLorean story ...
by Terry ini guess i'll tell my john de lorean story_______.
in the summer of '74 i moved my family to southern california.hooray for us!
is it ready, john?".
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peacefulpete
Terry...I was just wondering if you still had the story, it seems to have disappeared into the ether.
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Funny Money
by peacefulpete ini ran across this piece of history again and thought i'd share it before i forget it again.
we discussed the story in mark featuring the image of caesar on a coin as setup for the famous line, "give caesar's things to caesar...".
the writer was apparently unaware that the roman coinage circulating in judea did not have the usual image of caesar but rather depicted barley or palms and such and was often minted in judea.
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peacefulpete
I ran across this piece of history again and thought I'd share it before I forget it again. We discussed the story in Mark featuring the image of Caesar on a coin as setup for the famous line, "Give Caesar's things to Caesar...". The writer was apparently unaware that the Roman coinage circulating in Judea did not have the usual image of Caesar but rather depicted barley or palms and such and was often minted in Judea. Procuratorial coinage of Roman Judaea - Wikipedia
This to me is a minor point but supports the writing of Mark as after 70 whereupon the Romans issued the Judaea Capta coinage with Caesar's image (Judaea Capta coinage - Wikipedia) or simple reveals the author's unfamiliarity with the local situation, likely living in Rome. It should be noted however that Phillip the Tetrarch (4BCE-34CE) in Galilee and later Herod Agrippa (37-44 CE) issued some prutahs (like pennies) that had an image of Caesar. Given the concession the Romans gave regarding their coinage, the Herodian use of the image of Caesar or themselves is especially odd. I imagine the motivation was a demonstration of fealty. Herodian coinage - Wikipedia
What follows really strikes me as bizarre. The Temple use of Tyrian Shekels.
Beged Ivri -- Jerusalem's Tyrian Shekel
In the second century BCE, Rome, the ruling power, operated two mints in the Mediterranean region, one in Lebanon at Tyre, and the second at Antioch. The mint in Tyre produced Tyrian Shekels and Half-Shekels, of a 95% silver purity, between the years 127 BCE and 19 BCE. In the year 19 BCE Rome closed the mint in Tyre and began to import an inferior silver coinage from the Far East consisting of 80% pure silver.
The Religious leaders in Israel, realizing that the new coinage was not sufficiently pure to fulfil the Commandment of giving the Holy Half-Shekel appealed to the Emperor for permission to produce a ceremonial coin of sufficient purity to fulfil our religious obligations. The Rabbanim received special dispensation to produce the requisite coinage on condition that they continue with the motif of the Tyrian Shekel, so as not to arouse objections within the Roman Empire that the Jews were granted "autonomy" to mint their own coinage.
Now the Rabbanim in the year 19/18 BCE had a serious problem. On the one hand, the giving of the Holy Half-Shekel is a Torah Commandment. The problem arises with the motif of the Tyrian Shekel. On the obverse appears the image of Melkhart, known to us as Hercules, the god of the Phoenicians. On the reverse, appears an eagle on the bow of a ship with the legend: "Tyre the Holy and City of Refuge", and the date of issue..... The coins minted in Jerusalem between the years 18 BCE and 65 CE were virtually identical to their predecessors from Tyre.... Both images, a foreign god (or any likeness of man) and an eagle, are Torah prohibitions. And yet the Rabbanim decided that the importance of the giving of the Holy Half-Shekel superseded the violations incurred in using the Tyrian motif. More than this, these coins were actually brought into the very Beit Hamikdash itself, a vault room full of coins depicting a foreign god, inside the very Temple. And the sages went as far as issuing the decree, as recorded in the Talmud, that only the Tyrian Shekel was acceptable for fulfilling the Commandment of giving the Holy Half-Shekel (because of its silver purity).I imagine the different Roman response to Jewish request for concessions depended upon the individuals involved and exact circumstances.
This is the primary reason money changers were in the Temple. Everyone had to exchange their money, not just rare individuals from outside the Roman empire as the WT offers as an explanation.
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Is there really a Bible rule against sex without marriage?
by Halcon inregarding the poster from jw headquarters, who claimed that the gb would eventually loosen the rules regarding sex.
the question is, is there really a bible rule explicitly prohibiting sex without marriage?
because this would be the only possible reason why loosening those rules would even come up in a discussion.
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peacefulpete
I never liked the word "immoral". As I see it, what ought to shape a person's morals is primarily a concern for the wellbeing of others. I also respect the vow to partner up in life with someone and the pain breaking that vow can cause.
I see no moral issue involved in the intimacy of two consenting single people in love. I do see a moral issue in marital rape or any other form of abuse within a marriage. Married or not married, the concern for wellbeing determines the morality.