peacefulpete

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Posts by peacefulpete

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  9

  I don't get it.

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am a historian and the period of english history from henry vii to elizabeth i is my specialist area.. i was talking to an ex-jw about the time when tyndale first translated the bible into english with his intention that everyone from the ploughboy upwards would be able to read and understand the scriptures.

  it dawned on us both that this was a significant point in english history.. just having access to the bible in hi their own language allowed the common man to understand what god wanted him to understand.. it was and is, so simple.. why then oh why then do jehovah's witnesses think that they need a fds to explain it to them?

  when in the 1600s just having a bible written in english was enough for people to understand the word of god?.

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  peacefulpete

  To be fair the Bible is filled with examples of cryptic ambiguity. Mark has Jesus deliberately misleading listeners so that they don't get the message. Add to that the countless ways the messages are contradictory, and you see why most readers crave someone to tell them what to believe.
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  16

  Clever Misdirection

  by TD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was looking at the (mostly) wrong answers to a riddle that's making the rounds on social media and thought it was a good example of how something simple (in this case, grade school math) can be distorted with words.

  the riddle goes like this:.

  i bought a cow for $800.. i sold it for $1000.

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  peacefulpete

  That second example is the trickiest. The key is to take what the actual bill was (25) and add the tip (27 or 9x3). add the 3 she gave back =$30. The slippery part is the tip, it's actually included in the 27 and not a separate expense.
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  10

  listening to misinformation

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jw.org has a what's new....it's about misinformation...how you need to be careful.

  the person i have sent some things too ask if i had watched it...i said i would.

  i probably am ticking this person off a bit.

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  peacefulpete

  I plead ignorant of all that. I've been out a long time. I agree it isn't acceptable, but pretty true to form, for them to have reduced the issue to "do as you're told". They should have done their best to dispel concerns using information from reputable health authorities. I suppose it's just easier to play the FDS card.
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  42

  Just courius, some questions about the past

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  curious.

  time goes by so fast.

  who remembers 1975, the ray franz incident, the generation change in 1995, the blood fractions, alternative service, participation in ochr, aid afrique, the historical research by james pellechia, jolene chu and johannes stephan wrobel?

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  peacefulpete

  Just splitting hairs but the changing definitions of "generation" had another step prior to the overlapping weirdness. In the nineties they changed it to represent an era identified with certain characteristics or something similar. No one really got it or felt it was meaningful.
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  27

  Is The Religion Of Jehovah's Witnesses Biblical?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the answer is a definite no!.

  because every doctrine that is unique to jehovah's witnesses is not in the bible.

  the unique doctrines of jehovah’s witnesses are the ones that only jehovah’s witnesses teach.

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  peacefulpete

  Only Jehovah's people believe

  A creepy Freudian slip?
  
  
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  33

  Museum Pic

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a lot of ink has been spilled on the topic of the cross.

  the wt felt it had uncovered some deep conspiracy when they found a number of words were used to describe how jesus was understood to have been killed.

  there was an extensive thread many years ago that in short strongly supports the conclusion that at least some nt writers envisioned a cross, while others had a tree in mind.

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  peacefulpete

  When Christians began using a cross as an identifier is a separate issue in my mind. Though your suggestion that it was inherited as the Tav is interesting. I'm foremost interested in the formation of the doctrine of crucifixion. What were the influences and rational for the belief that the Christ was destined to be hung on a tree/xylon. Traditionally it's assumed a crucifixion occurred and that was later perceived to fulfill "prophecy". However, the opposite is more consistent with the process at work in the Gospels. That is, the story was written using elements drashed from the Tanakh. The tree/wood from Deut. and Genesis seems reasonably to be the inspiration for understanding the Christ/Son figure being killed on a tree, likely (and as proposed by Doherty Et Al.) this was in a lower level of heaven or briefly and imperceptively on earth.

  I'm of course also admitting the influence from myths of other deities like Attis and Silenus who were hung on a tree contributed to this anticipation/revelation. Again, perhaps a short time later this was reinterpreted as a Roman execution by crucifixion on a cross per a number of NT writers. And, as you suggest perhaps the familiarity with the Tav symbolism made it all irresistible.
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  10

  listening to misinformation

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jw.org has a what's new....it's about misinformation...how you need to be careful.

  the person i have sent some things too ask if i had watched it...i said i would.

  i probably am ticking this person off a bit.

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  peacefulpete

  peacefulpete, I am inclined to look at various sides of an issue before I form conclusions. I wasn't always this way...but then the internet wasn't available. Do you consider the JWs a reputable source?

  Like most corporations and religious organizations, they are deferring to the broad consensus of medical experts and researchers when they encouraged their people to be responsible members of society and get vaccinated if possible.

  We all should feel free to get multiple perspectives. The problem is we need to be selective to avoid being pawns to clickbait and provocateurs of distrust. When websites specialize in nothing but conspiracy and scandal, they are not likely to be soberly looking for objective evidence but looking for ways to spin threads into a narrative to sell.
• 
  10

  listening to misinformation

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jw.org has a what's new....it's about misinformation...how you need to be careful.

  the person i have sent some things too ask if i had watched it...i said i would.

  i probably am ticking this person off a bit.

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  peacefulpete

  Ironic indeed is how those who denounce misinformation and profess to do fact checking are often those who are spreading misinformation and refuse to do 10 minutes of fact checking from reputable sources. There is a lesson here, but I fear you may not yet have learned it.
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  1

  Thyme Tea - A Doctor's Remedy for Colds, Flu etc.

  by BoogerMan in

  1. social
  2. family

  if your nose is all blocked up, what have have you got to lose by trying this?

  i'll give it a shot.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy1vu14uhma.

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  peacefulpete

  We love tea in this house but have a sober view of the claims many tea makers make. Many of the plants used are in fact sources of potentially beneficial compounds if used properly and isolated from harmful compounds also found in these plants. What strikes me immediately as odd is he suggests making a solution of ground thyme and ginger (which do not dissolve) and drinking it rather than using a loose tea filter bag and drinking the "liquor". Has he ever made tea?

  It's ironic that Thyme can cause asthma in some people and is best avoided if fighting certain cancers.
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  33

  Museum Pic

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a lot of ink has been spilled on the topic of the cross.

  the wt felt it had uncovered some deep conspiracy when they found a number of words were used to describe how jesus was understood to have been killed.

  there was an extensive thread many years ago that in short strongly supports the conclusion that at least some nt writers envisioned a cross, while others had a tree in mind.

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  peacefulpete

  Anony Mouse...Even if the Christ/son was a mythic/mystic figure we can discuss the elements of the story. Paul's Midrashic style use of Genesis and Deuteronomy may be the key to how he concluded the Christ was hung on a tree in a spirit level above the firmament. In Galatians 3 he combines elements drawn from Deuteronomy "cursed is everyone hanged upon a tree" and the Genesis story of Isaac bearing upon himself the wood to be used for his own death as a sacrifice. Both of these pericopes inspired Jewish commentary and were linked through the use of the word "wood/tree". Note this comment from Wilcox, Max. 1977. “‘Upon the Tree’: Deut 21:22-23 in the New Testament.” Journal of Biblical Literature 96 (1): 85–99. https://www.jstor.org/stable/3265329

  In Genesis 22 it is found in the plural ξύλα . . . for the wood of the burnt-offering and, more specifically, in 22:6 Abraham is depicted as taking the wood and loading it onto Isaac his son. Genesis Rabba comments on this, “like one who carries his cross . . . upon his shoulder.” A moment later Abraham is shown building an altar and setting out the wood upon it; he then binds Isaac and puts him “upon the altar, on top of the wood” . . . . In the NT model, in the fulness of time another comes to the place of sacrifice, carrying his “wood”/“cross” (cf. John 19:17), and is put upon it (cf. esp. 1 Pet 2:24 . . . ). We thus argue that behind the present context in Galatians 3 there is an earlier midrashic link between Gen 22:6-9 and Deut 21:22-23 by way of the common term … ξύλον …). That this has external confirmation we may see from (Ps.)-Tertullian, Adv. Iudaeos 10:6,

  … Isaac, when led by his father as a victim, and himself bearing his own “wood,” was even at that period pointing to Christ’s death; conceded, as he was, as a victim by the Father; carrying, as he did, the “wood” of his own passion.

  In short what is proposed is that the earliest Christians sprung from a Jewish faction that had integrated a son of man/son of God entity. Some of their writings are still available. Paul seems to be introducing the concept of the death of that entity through purely Midrashic means. IOW perceiving it from interpretation of passages in the Tanakh and related works. His contribution to the formation of Christianity as we know it was " Christ hung on a tree (crucified)".

  It's not hard then to imagine the link to the Roman practice of crucifixion on a cross. It cannot be precisely identified who first made this link as the work of Paul have been heavily redacted and selected and very little else has survived from this period. However, by the time the narrative Gospels came along the link to the Roman practice and period was fully established. Therefore, as Wells finally concluded it would be possible an actual historical person's execution became integrated into the Christ composition. This person/s may have been someone from an earlier period such as the Teacher of Righteousness who was killed by the religious leadership or someone like the Jesus the prophet who was supposedly killed with a Roman catapult in Josephus or one of the many would be reformers and messiahs.