Posts by peacefulpete

9

Watchtower Double Speak

by Vanderhoven7 in

on eternal life.

"none of us are in position to earn god’s gifts, least of all to earn the gift of life.

but we can show ourselves worthy of the gift of eternal life by … dedicating ourselves to jehovah and then proving faithful to that dedication.” (the watchtower, august 15, 1952, p. 485).

peacefulpete

It's an ancient Christian oxymoron. "Free gift" with lots of strings.

We are told to freely forgive others as we have been forgiven. Am I doing that if I require repentance and conformity to my will from others?

The book of James was written precisely because the author thought he had a solution. Freely forgiven IF you do the right works and have correct beliefs which you would have if you truly appreciated the free gift. Chicken or the egg type of logic.

Or stated another way: I gave my wife a "gift" trip to Paris, she only had to work for the money to buy the tickets which she would do if she really wanted to go.

86

Is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the WT, charlatanism?

by Disillusioned JW in

is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the wt, charlatanism?.

https://www.fullmoon.nu/sources.bak/chapter%2010/part%202/gish%20exposed.html [which has an article called "creationism: bad science or immoral pseudoscience?

- (an expose of creationist dr. duane gish)"] says the following.. 'a look at the "scientific" creationist movement and a close examination of the tactics of a well-known and influential creationist will reveal that the creation "science" movement gains much of its strength through the use of distortion and scientifically unethical tactics.. .... with the facts explained and the lawsuits won, scientists declared victory and returned to their labs and offices.

peacefulpete

Yes there are scientists who are Christians, Hindus, Muslims, racists, ghost hunters, bigfoot believers etc. The issue is not whether such folks are involved in some type of science, but are their personal conclusions scientifically drawn. I know a medical doctor who believes in reincarnation. I would consult her for advise about a rash but not put much weight to her religious upbringing regarding what happens after death.

86

Is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the WT, charlatanism?

by Disillusioned JW in

is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the wt, charlatanism?.

https://www.fullmoon.nu/sources.bak/chapter%2010/part%202/gish%20exposed.html [which has an article called "creationism: bad science or immoral pseudoscience?

- (an expose of creationist dr. duane gish)"] says the following.. 'a look at the "scientific" creationist movement and a close examination of the tactics of a well-known and influential creationist will reveal that the creation "science" movement gains much of its strength through the use of distortion and scientifically unethical tactics.. .... with the facts explained and the lawsuits won, scientists declared victory and returned to their labs and offices.

peacefulpete

Jane Goodall, (one of the Trimates aka Leaky's angels) is a devout Christian.

Jane would be surprised to learn that. She is definitely not a "devote Christian". She does feel a need for a supernatural intelligence that can be experienced in nature and somehow guided evolution. Her feelings in this regard are not arrived at scientifically but instinctively, (she has said her Congregational upbringing shaped her in profound way.) She was a good choice for the assignments with primates because she was able to patiently endure hardship and carefully record what she saw. She took real risks that some would regard as foolhardy but made it through. She's a wonderful woman and activist who has and continues to do good things for people and animals but anyone is free to disagree with her feelings about supernaturalism.

9

The Korah Story Composition

by peacefulpete in

a perennial favorite of the wt, and other hierarchal churches, is the infamous korah rebellion tale of numbers 16. the story has been a subject of debate for many many years.

how did korah die?

did his family?

peacefulpete

Kindly natured people wish to find some way to dismiss the shear barbarity of passages like this. Reading chapts. 16&17 today certainly doesn't endear anyone to this deity. It's all about fear and threats.

29

Was / Is God biased ? prejudiced against certain Peoples / Tribes or Nations ?

by smiddy3 in

let me explain :.

after the creation account of the bible, tribes of people and nations began to form and spread around the land.. god first chose noah and his family to protect them as he destroys all others in the flood.. and he ticks off everyone in babel ?

and then he favours abraham and his descendants as the nation of israel culminating in the jewish lineage to jesus the son of god.. he has never had any dealings with any other people`s or nation isn`t that some form of favouritism ?

peacefulpete

Perhaps you're recalling Deut 7:7 : Least not last.

29

Was / Is God biased ? prejudiced against certain Peoples / Tribes or Nations ?

by smiddy3 in

let me explain :.

after the creation account of the bible, tribes of people and nations began to form and spread around the land.. god first chose noah and his family to protect them as he destroys all others in the flood.. and he ticks off everyone in babel ?

and then he favours abraham and his descendants as the nation of israel culminating in the jewish lineage to jesus the son of god.. he has never had any dealings with any other people`s or nation isn`t that some form of favouritism ?

peacefulpete

Fisherman...It'll probably sound snarky but God is supposed to be able to read hearts and see the future yet your defense of the choice of Israel (from a Christian perspective) reveals no such powers. If a God refuses to use his best talents for the salvation of mankind ought I be excited to hear he will be in control of everything?

36

“Hanging the earth upon nothing”

by FFGhost in

for those of you not up to speed on the latest jw trends, one of the key scriptures the jws are using in field serve-us lately is job 26:7, wherein the writer describes the earth as “hanging upon nothing”.. this text is used to indicate the bible’s “reliability”.

the reasoning goes something like this:.

“see, centuries ago, people thought the world was flat, or was resting on elephants or turtles, or some such nonsense.

peacefulpete

The bible is unique in many aspects. It stands alone as different from other writings at the time. For example the code of Hammurabi, which is considered to precede that of the Torah, has lead critics to say that the Torah was merely a copy from the Babylonian empire.

Joe134cd..Yes the Bible is unique just as every civilization and their legal codes are unique. It might surprise you that Hammurabi lived well over a thousand years before the writing of Leviticus or Deuteronomy. It is often cited as an example of an ancient extensive legal code with some uncanny parallels to the later Jewish code.

29

Was / Is God biased ? prejudiced against certain Peoples / Tribes or Nations ?

by smiddy3 in

let me explain :.

after the creation account of the bible, tribes of people and nations began to form and spread around the land.. god first chose noah and his family to protect them as he destroys all others in the flood.. and he ticks off everyone in babel ?

and then he favours abraham and his descendants as the nation of israel culminating in the jewish lineage to jesus the son of god.. he has never had any dealings with any other people`s or nation isn`t that some form of favouritism ?

peacefulpete

When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
when he divided all mankind,
he set up boundaries for the peoples
according to the number of the sons of El.[b]
9 For Yahweh’s portion is his people,

Jacob his allotted inheritance. Deut 32:8-9

Remember the early Yahwists frame Yahweh as their god exclusively, he had no jurisdiction or purview elsewhere. In time as their theological outlook globalized they saw him as the god of everywhere, but that they would always be his favorite.

29

Was / Is God biased ? prejudiced against certain Peoples / Tribes or Nations ?

by smiddy3 in

let me explain :.

after the creation account of the bible, tribes of people and nations began to form and spread around the land.. god first chose noah and his family to protect them as he destroys all others in the flood.. and he ticks off everyone in babel ?

and then he favours abraham and his descendants as the nation of israel culminating in the jewish lineage to jesus the son of god.. he has never had any dealings with any other people`s or nation isn`t that some form of favouritism ?

peacefulpete

Quote mining aside Sea Breeze. No one I know challenges that early Christians believed either they themselves or others had had a religious/numinous experience. Every religion involves dreams/visions/ uncanny coincidence/ emotional epiphanies or some such impactful experience. Even those who hold the Jesus Myth position likewise assume that someone at some early point was convinced they had experienced a vision or communication with a spirit that they understood as Christ. Paul says he had visions, I don't doubt he believed he did. The most popular "Jesus Myth" hypothesis currently is that visions of Christ are the very origins of the movement. The Gospels placing this Christ on earth are secondary to the religions origins. If that hypothesis is correct it in no way suggests people did not believe they had had a religious experience. At the same time saying someone was convinced they had communication with a spirit doesn't go far toward establishing that as historically true.

9

The Korah Story Composition

by peacefulpete in

a perennial favorite of the wt, and other hierarchal churches, is the infamous korah rebellion tale of numbers 16. the story has been a subject of debate for many many years.

how did korah die?

did his family?

peacefulpete

No one finds the redaction process interesting? How about Yahweh wanting to kill everyone until Moses reasons with him? Then he kills the families of the men who conspired causing a panic among the rest of the people which pisses off Yahweh who again wants to kill everyone with a plague. Moses runs and gets Aaron who burns incense while standing between the living and the dead to calm Yahweh down. 14,700 died not counting all those he killed by fire and families eaten by the ground. Makes me feel warm all over. How about you?