Norm

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  16

  Psychic torture and manipulation

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  brooklyn has really developed manipulation into a fine art.

  you see, i didnt have any feeling of self-worth, so i could not imagine how jehovah could ever accept my service to him.. .

  paul and all the other idiots that couldnt have a life because of the lack of time are now dead.

  1. 
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  3. 
• 

  Norm

  Hi COMF,

  Thanks you. It means a lot to me coming from an old veteran like you.
  ----------------------------------------------------------

  Hi Larc,

  If I am still alive I hope to be back to visit Java some time in autumn.

  Take care

  Norm
• 
  15

  For XJWBill - about the Evil Christianity

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello bill,.

  i have been away for a while so i didnt see your reply to my post about the final solution.

  posted: may 25, 2001 1:50:01 am .

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• 

  Norm

  Hi There Bill,

  I see that this some lessons in history is in order here.

  You said:

  Howdy Norm,

  I first started to write a terse reply to your latest post, advising you to go find a JW if you are spoiling for a fight. They love these sorts of debates, but I have long since gotten over the desire to save, convert, or change anyone. It's not my job anymore.
  However, upon reflection, it occurred to me that your pugnacious attitude may in fact be a cover for a real desire to find some goodness in Christianity after all (pray forgive me if that is too “psychoanalytical”). Therefore, I will proceed this one more time to treat your questions as a serious inquiry and give you the best answer I can—-though if you really want a deep, intellectual defense of Christian belief versus the problem of evil, I must refer you to C. S. Lewis (e.g., "The Problem of Pain") and other apologists better than I.

  So far I haven’t been debating, but only stated a few facts with which you obviously disagree.

  Your equating Christianity with Nazism is absurd on its face. The guiding idea at the core of Nazism was overweening pride--the self-aggrandizement of the German people in general, and the National Socialist party in particular, at the expense of all other peoples and parties. Its selfish and hate-filled philosophy, if you can call it that, harked backed to that of Nietzche and other immodest, atheistic, ego-worshipping thinkers who essentially declared that only a “superman” or a superior race was fit to enjoy freedom and domination of the world, while all other men, inferior and servile, ought and must be subservient, sacrificing their freedom, industry, and lives for the benefit of the few.

  I cannot but ascribe such a statement as you make above to gross ignorance about history in general and the history of anti-Semitism in particular. The Nazi anti-Semitism wasn’t invented by the Nazis. It was started in the Bible, by the gospel writers and Paul. The first Christian emperor was Constantine. Already before he came to power some of the non Christian emperors had made anti-Semitic laws.

  Constantine renewed them and made them a stronger. Already in the Synod in Elvira year 300 CE outlawed marriage between Christian and Jew. It also prohibited Christians mixing socially with Jews. Constantine called them an “evil race”, “blood soaked people” they were “born insane”, and on the famous meeting in Nicea it became prohibited for Jews to keep Christian slaves because it would be unjust for a Christian to be slave to those who murdered the prophets and the Lord. (Eusebio, Vita Constant. 3, 17ff.)

  In the middle of the 300 the first synagogue was destroyed by Bishop Innocencious in Dertona in North Italy and all the property of the Jews there was confiscated. At about the same time the synagogue in Tipsa in North Africa was turnfered into a church. In 388 a synagogue on the Euphrates was burned on the order of Bishop Kallinikon. The Emperor Theodosius wanted the arsonist punished but Bishop Ambrosius defended the arsonist and said that it was a lawful act. The same Ambrosius wrote a dozen ani-Jewish letters, he said that he would have torched the synagogue himself as he couldn’t tolerate a place where “Christ was denied”. (Letters. Ambrosius of Milan)

  In 415 Bishop Cyril confiscated all the synagogues in Egypt and turned them into churches. In Alexandria all of them should be destroyed and all the property of the Jews should be confiscated and they should be chased out of the city. (Socrates the Church historian). In the middle ages Europe became an increasingly difficult place for the Jews. In France the Synode in Agde in 506 decided that people who ate together with Jews should be excommunicated. More and more anti-Jewish laws was passed on a number of synods. The Archbishop Agobard of Lyon (died 840) a Spaniard wrote 5 anti-Jewish treaties where he among other things he said that already Pilate had ordered the Jews to worship Jesus, and that Jewish rabbis tasted the blood of menstruating women to find out if it was unclean and other sick accusations. He was also the one who coined the later famous Nazi slogan, “Do not buy from the Jews”. During the Nazi years I Germany a Jesuit priest published Agobards treaties of the Jews in German. In Spain it wasn’t much better for the Jews and in Germany the problems really started for them at the same time the Crusades got going. In 1298 all the Jews in Röttingen, Bavaria were killed and their houses destroyed. The crime? They were supposed to have stabbed an Image of Christ. In the years to come this was usually the standard accusation. The proof was that these Christ images was bleeding.

  Because of such accusations all the Jews in Degendorf in lower Bavaria was murdered by the Catholics in 1337, this way they got rid of the loans they had with the Jews and gained all the Jewish property and real estate. In 1349, 2000 Jews was burned in Strassburg and all they owned was handed out to the Christians. In the same year the Catholics killed almost all the Jews in 350 German church districts, the majority was burned alive. It is well known that Luther wasn’t any big fan of the Jews either. The anti-Semitic Nazi newspaper “Sturmer” had a lot to learn from Luther when it came to derogatory characterizations of the Jews. The infamous Nazi slaughter Julius Streicher used Luther to defend his views in the Nuremberg trial. The Nazi’s was just carrying out a good old Christian tradition Bill, that’s the fact of the matter.

  It is no wonder, then, that such a philosophy produced criminals and crimes on a scale utterly unparalleled in history, so that the exact opposite of your statement is true, and was recognized to be true by the people and leaders of those Christian nations—-as they were called then—-that fought to exterminate the filth of Nazism from the earth: namely, that the crimes of Hitler and his minions made all other crimes pale in comparison.

  As you can see from my little history lesson above, the Christian “philosophy” produced criminals of such caliber long before anyone had heard about the Nazi’s.
  But the Christians wasn’t only concerned with killing Jews. They were equally eager to root out and kill all that didn’t buy their brand of faith. Their hunt for “Heretics” was equally as bloody, yes worse than their slaughter of Jews. Space doesn’t allow me to go through all the details. In 1489, the infamous publication “Mallus maleficorum” or the “Witch hammer” was published for the first time, and after that thousands of innocent women was burned or killed in the most hideous manner, the last witch process was taking place in Berlin as late as 1728, and the latest in Europe was in Glarus, Switzerland in 1782, yes in 1823 in Delden, Holland there was carried out a “water test” of a suspected witch.
  
  

  My own father, who was not, by the way, particularly religious, fought in that war against evil; was actually under fire and fired back at the Germans, may have killed a few, though he was not proud of the fact. However, he and everyone else at the war’s end was very glad of the triumph of what Mr. Churchill routinely called Christian civilization. And for you, Norm, to tell me now that my father and all his kin and friends who joined in that fight were merely following another, even more heinous, evil philosophy—-well, it is a patently juvenile and ridiculous statement, and if you have any conscience at all, you should be ashamed to make it.

  As history show Christianity isn’t as such very civilized. The Civilization we live in today was created by wrestling the power away from the Christians. The American founding fathers knew and understood this very well, that is why they saw to it that the Church should have no political power. The western democracies we live in today became possible in spite of the Christians not because of them. Your father’s and all his comrades in arms who fought the Nazis is to be highly commended for that. My country was occupied by the Nazi’s but I am born after the war, so I haven’t got any first had experience of it. My conscience is in perfect working order, but I am not regarding this as an emotional matter, what your father have got to do with this I simply fail to see. Do you honestly believe he was fighting for Christ or Christianity?

  Your black-and-white vision of what you call “reality” and history is in fact exactly what the Nazis—-and other totalitarian regimes-—sought to inculcate in their deluded followers. Hitler would have loved you, for your lack of balance, moderation, and insight would have made you ripe for the picking. (You fell for the Watchtower, didn't you?)

  Your problem here is that my “vision” of this isn’t black and white, Bill. History show that most ordinary Christians had no problems living side by side with the Jews. It was the Church leaders and some of the Christian gentry who was behind most of the problems. They could however not have murdered thousands of people without the more or less willing cooperation of their subjects. Just like Hitler couldn’t have succeeded without the support of millions of “ordinary” Germans. Were the average Christian or German personally evil people? No, of course not, still they became for the most part more or less willing tools for evil. You don't have to be evil to do eveil, you just have to be indifferent, unconcerned, not care. As I have stated before the history of Christendom demonstrate a very evil movement, and it still have an enormous potential for evil if it were to get the kind of power it once had. I do not doubt for a minute that if the Christian churches was given the power they had in the dark ages they would turn our lives into a nightmare again.

  In contrast to the straw man of Nazism that you have set up, the core idea at the heart of Christianity is, not a selfish grab for domination, but self-sacrificing love. “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you,” “Love God with all your strength, and your neighbor as yourself,” “He that would be greatest of all must be the servant of all,” “Do not return evil for evil, but keep overcoming the evil with the good,” “Bless your enemies and pray for them who persecute you,” “Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends,” “I say to you, you must forgive your brother seven times seventy times,” “Let us love, neither in words nor with the tongue, but in deed and in truth,” “He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.”

  As documented the comparison between Christianity and Nazism is a very valid one. Nazism was and is a consequence of a two thousand year old Christian culture.

  Now, Norm—-regardless of whether you believe Jesus is the Son of God, or merely an itinerant teacher-—regardless of whether you believe the Bible is divinely inspired, or merely a collection of solely man-made writings—you cannot with any credibility equate the filthy, hateful ravings of a madman like Hitler—-or any other of that ilk—-with the central impulse of Christianity, as noted in the quotations above. To lump both philosophies together as “evil forces” is utterly to destroy all meaning of the words “evil” and “good”—-to speak utter and obvious nonsense that even a schoolchild can recognize.

  As I have documented, all that Hitler was doing was repeating all those filthy, hateful ravings which had been written down by Christian Bishops and Monks and Luther many years before.
  Of course I understand that you are ignorant about such facts, so I suggest that you sit down and educate yourself before you dismiss such matters in this manner.

  And now, having established the philosophical background, let me proceed to your main point: that “Christianity” has bloodthirstily sought nothing but genocide, slavery, witch burnings, intolerance, etc., etc.
  But to speak honestly, we must first distinguish what you really mean by the word “Christianity.” The word can refer to a system of thought and belief, which I have just demonstrated is anything but evil. Or the word can refer collectively to those organizations—-Churches—-that have promoted and taught Christian beliefs. Or, more loosely, the word can refer to political entities that offer at least nominal allegiance either to a particular Church or to Christian ideals in general. Or even more loosely, it can refer to the mass of Christian believers in general. The latter two ideas are usually more particularly refered to as “Christendom” to distinguish people and governments from beliefs and ideas.

  Christianity has bloodthirstily sought to destroy everything they saw as a threat to their power. And they did so as long as they could hold on to that kind of power. The Christians has used the Bible as they have seen fit, and they have found excuses for their despicable behavior in that very book. Of course there have been admirable and good people within Christianity as there has been admirable individuals among Hindu’s, Moslem and other religions, but as I have pointed out before that have always been in spite of their religious affiliations. No matter how much hand waving and special pleading you do, history speaks for itself.

  So are you saying that 1) churches, 2) governments, or 3) individuals have sometimes been guilty of terrible deeds, all the while calling themselves Christian? I think that really is part of what you are getting at, and if you will limit your statement to that, you are quite right. Proud, self-righteous, greedy men and women, as individuals, groups, or organziations, have from time to time either A) turned a deaf ear to the voice of their consciences, ignoring the basic Christian principles, B) by defect of logic and fullness of pride misconstrued those principles, or C) worst of all, misused the sublime teachings of Christ as a pretext, a cover, for their own lustful, greedy motives.

  I am saying that history demonstrate a huge movement that got political power around 300 CE. And that movement, Christianity grew into an incredibly evil force, that held mankind in a stranglehold for almost 1700 years. The enormous wealth of the Catholic church was accumulated during that time. Whether they were “misusing” the alleged “words of Jesus” isn’t really of much interest. It doesn’t help all those poor people they tortured or murdered. Christianity as such haven’t changed in any profound way. When you are in the business of selling illusions and fairy tales about the unknown that in reality amounts to nothing but thin air, style and pomp is important. Absolute power, like they enjoyed in the dark ages makes such con jobs much easier, because then you can coerce and threaten people into submission.
  In those days I would be dead long ago.

  You are right to be indignant at such a perversion of good teachings, as are all decent-minded Christians themselves.
  But you do not limit yourself to such a circumscribed statement. You proceed to assert or imply that all Christians in all times and all places have been all evil. Norm, that is really childish of you. Not to mention patently false, as “history,” to which you are so fond of appealing, also bears full and ample witness.

  I am not indignant about any perversion of teachings. You don’t have to pervert the teachings of the Bible, they are already pervert. As you can see I do no such thing, as “assert and imply” that all Christians are evil. As I have stated before, there has no doubt been many nice and good people who have happened to belong to the Christian camp, but in order to be such good people they had to dismiss the bulk of the Bible.
  Indeed history give us examples of such outstanding people, but they were alas few and far between.

  By way of analogy, let me refer you to the Constitution of the United States, a document which explicitly condones the practice of slavery and by implication the subjugation of the Indian peoples. Does that fact make it an evil document, Norm, and the government which it establishes an evil government for an evil people? American democracy is imperfect, even flawed, but is it completely and absolutely and irredeemably evil? There are some who would answer yes—-but they are, like a certain disturbed individual now awaiting execution in Oklahoma, themselves obviously terribly, terribly flawed in their thinking.
  I have not the time nor space here to make a catalogue of all good Christian people through the ages and all good deeds done by them; these are just as truly “facts” as the misdeeds you cite. If you are as well-read as you say your are, they should all, or at least a great many of them, be well known to you. If Christianity is truly and thoroughly “evil,” how then can you account for the great goodness of such “facts” as St. Francis, John Newton, and Mother Teresa, to name but three of many millions of good people—-good by reason of, not despite, their religion?

  Yes, in spite of the very hypocritical standards of that Constitution it provided the basis for something that could later be corrected, when decent people which was fought every step of the way by the Christians was able to get slavery abolished. I don’t see what the Constitution has to do with this matter but no doubt you have an idea what you meant by bringing it up. As I have now stated several times, good and decent individual can be found but that doesn’t change the recorded history of the Christian Church.

  Nor do time and space allow me to recount the unselfish goodness of many obscure, unknown Christians of my acquaintance, my own family, friends, neighbors, and passing strangers. Even I, one of the least of Christians, have on occasion risked my safety, my money, or at least my own convenience to do something good for others—-though I will not be so immodest as to recount the uninteresting details here. Surely you have taken your head out of the history books long enough to look around you? Have you no eyes to see, Norm? Are we Christians really as wicked as those Nazis? Really, Norm? Really?

  Again, I don’t doubt that there are good decent Christians around, including you. You do however belong to a movement which have proved itself capable of enormous evil, in the past. And as a movement still has that capacity. You just have to look to your fundamentalist brothers in the US to see what they would do if they had the power. They make no secret about what they would do. Steve Allen estimated that they would almost immediately have to kill about 120 million Americans. So they are still out there Bill. I of course have no way of knowing what you personally would do in such a situation, but my guess is that a lot of Americans would become extremely “Christian” over night.

  At this very moment, all over the world, there are many millions of Christians who would, if they knew you needed help, give you food, shelter, clothing, medical care—-even, if need be, endanger their own lives to save yours, Norm--strictly on account of their "evil" religion, not because it would profit them an iota. How many Nazis or other such selfish, hateful folk would do the same for you? Is it really all the same? Really?

  Even the God I worship loves you enough to die for you, Norm—-and did, as I devoutly believe. What more do you want?
  Believe as you wish, and be happy.

  Peace,
  Bill

  "If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

  As there are millions of Hindus, Moslems, Buddhists, Atheists, Chinese etc which would do the same, all admirable kind and good people, but what has that got to do with the Crimes of Christianity?

  Yes, Bill I am already happy. Knowledge, enlightenment and a relatively good health is a good reason to be happy.

  Take care,

  Norm.
• 
  16

  Psychic torture and manipulation

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  brooklyn has really developed manipulation into a fine art.

  you see, i didnt have any feeling of self-worth, so i could not imagine how jehovah could ever accept my service to him.. .

  paul and all the other idiots that couldnt have a life because of the lack of time are now dead.

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  Norm

  Hello Julie,

  Yes, I agree with you. It is amazing what gullibilty combined with unscroupolous predators can accomplish in the field of superstition.

  It is really sad that there are so many people readily preprogrammed for being exploited by insane cults. Let us hope that we some time in the future in 3-4000 years time can get rid of such evilness.

  Norm.
• 
  16

  Psychic torture and manipulation

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  brooklyn has really developed manipulation into a fine art.

  you see, i didnt have any feeling of self-worth, so i could not imagine how jehovah could ever accept my service to him.. .

  paul and all the other idiots that couldnt have a life because of the lack of time are now dead.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Norm

  Hi Tina,

  Hope everything is all right with girl. Haven't seen you in ages. I have been a bit busy. Dad and me was away for our annual viking raid into Denmark and Germany, it was successful as we returned with lots of spoil.

  It is amazing what a force of incredible fear and hatred of women the judeo christian religion is. Apart from it's close realtion islam it doesn't only seem to suffer from homofobia but also from a numbing fear of womenkind.

  Norm.
• 
  16

  Psychic torture and manipulation

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  brooklyn has really developed manipulation into a fine art.

  you see, i didnt have any feeling of self-worth, so i could not imagine how jehovah could ever accept my service to him.. .

  paul and all the other idiots that couldnt have a life because of the lack of time are now dead.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Norm

  Hi Java,

  I don't mind. You just use it as you see fit my friend. BTW if you and the "missus" ever decide to come this way just give me a holler. You can shack up with me you know.

  Take care, and all the best to both of you.

  Norman.
• 
  15

  For XJWBill - about the Evil Christianity

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello bill,.

  i have been away for a while so i didnt see your reply to my post about the final solution.

  posted: may 25, 2001 1:50:01 am .

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  Norm

  Hi Bill,

  You seem to misunderstand the whole matter, or is that deliberately?

  The history of Christianity is one long tale of bloodshed, cruelty and genocide. It makes the crime of Nazism pale in comparison.

  Somehow the crimes of Christianity seem acceptable to you. Do you feel the same way about the crimes of the Nazi's?

  Or do you feel that we shouldn't use the same standard when considering the two evil forces?

  Norm.
• 
  16

  Psychic torture and manipulation

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  brooklyn has really developed manipulation into a fine art.

  you see, i didnt have any feeling of self-worth, so i could not imagine how jehovah could ever accept my service to him.. .

  paul and all the other idiots that couldnt have a life because of the lack of time are now dead.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Norm

  Brooklyn has really developed manipulation into a fine art. An excellent example of this can be found in the December 1. 1995 Issue of the Watchtower in an article with the title “Do not give up”

  For many years the Watchtower magazine has addressed the phenomenon and problem that a large number of Jehovah's Witnesses feels extremely inadequate, burned out, disheartened, depressed and pressured. The genius of these articles is that they contain all the necessary information needed to clearly identify the problem, but every time the article with unerring certainty draws the direct opposite conclusion. Instead of providing help for the victims of these emotions it is only a hopeless pretended, mock search for the cause of the problems. Let us take a look at how this is done.

  True to style the article do identify the real causes of the problems facing so many of the Jehovah's Witnesses population, but already in the beginning it moves on and proceed to lay out a “smokescreen” by bringing the ever popular Satan into the equation. The mock “search” has commenced:

  *** w95 12/1 9 Do Not Give Up! ***
  Knowing that his remaining time is short, Satan is exerting ever greater pressure on humans to keep them from serving Jehovah. However, this “roaring lion” is especially interested in preying upon Jehovah’s servants.

  What the Watchtower in reality is saying is that yes, all these “serving Jehovah” activity because the time is supposed to be so short is actually causing all the problems for many Jehovah's Witnesses, but somehow it is the Devil who is responsible. Now let us get this straight. Jehovah's Witnesses are expected to put their life on hold, no education, no career, no pursuing of talent in sports, music etc. In short no life. The only thing that matters is pushing Watchtower literature down peoples throats because the “time” is so incredibly short:

  *** w95 12/1 11 Do Not Give Up! ***
  When We Feel That We Are Not Doing Enough
  11 The Kingdom-preaching work plays an important part in the life of a Christian, and sharing in it brings joy. (Psalm 40:8) Some Christians, though, feel very guilty about not being able to do more in the ministry. Such guilt could even erode our joy and cause us to give up, imagining that Jehovah feels that we never do enough. Consider the feelings that some struggle with.

  
  
  Peddling this literature is called “Kingdom preaching work”. Now let us ask ourselves a question. Why do the average Jehovah's Witness feel guilty about not “doing enough”? Is it Satan that causes this feeling? The quote above suggest that some “Christians” are “imagining” that Jehovah feels that they never do enough. So apparently they feel guilty because of Jehovah, not Satan. It seems as though the Watchtower has identified the main cause of the problems, namely guilt.

  What we have to find out next is what causes that guilt or more precisely who is responsible for making people feel guilty if they don’t spend as much time as possible going door to door peddling Watchtower literature?
  Let us first take a look at some really twisted reasoning and shrewd manipulation:

  *** w95 12/1 11-12 Do Not Give Up! ***
  “Do you know how time-consuming poverty is?” wrote one Christian sister who with her husband is raising three children. “I must conserve wherever I can. This means spending time searching through thrift shops, clearance racks, or even sewing clothes. I also spend an hour or two each week working on [discount food] coupons—cutting, filing, and trading them. At times I feel very guilty doing these things, thinking that I should be spending that time out in the field service.”

  
  
  Here we have an example of a person who has more than enough to deal with in her life already. Instead of worrying about peddling worthless literature, this energy should have been spent of getting some kind of education which would help her out of the grip of poverty. But of course the “time is so short” so she will have to work until she drop. Will the Watchtower Society have any use for her when she stops “distributing magazines”? Will they remember her when she dies old and lonely in poverty? Will Jehovah help her?
  Who do you think have put it into her head that the “Kingdom preaching work” is more important than having a decent life? Here is another example:

  *** w95 12/1 12 Do Not Give Up! ***
  “I thought I must not really love Jehovah enough,” explained a sister with four children and an unbelieving husband. “So I struggled with my serving Jehovah. I tried really hard, but I never felt that it was enough. You see, I didn’t have any feeling of self-worth, so I could not imagine how Jehovah could ever accept my service to him.”

  Did you notice that both of these last examples were women? What do you think is the standard set for women in the Watchtower?:

  *** w89 5/15 20 Showing Love and Respect as a Wife ***
  Likewise today, many of our sisters, married or single, are outstanding missionaries, pioneers, and publishers. At the same time, such godly women keep clean, orderly homes and never neglect their families. Because of their numbers and circumstances, they often do the greater part of the preaching work.—Psalm 68:11.

  Do you think this is written by a woman? Do you think the person who wrote it has ever had any experience in being a mother, wife, had any responsibility for children?
  As we can see from these quote the consequences of them is obviously a strong feeling of guilt and loss of self worth. Again who and what caused such feelings?

  *** w95 12/1 12 Do Not Give Up! ***
  A Christian who found it necessary to leave the full-time service said: “I couldn’t stand the idea that I was failing in my commitment to serve Jehovah full-time. You can’t imagine how disappointed I was! I cry now remembering.”

  When we look at the 3 quotes from the Watchtower relating the personal effects and emotions of those presumably ordinary rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses, they make it abundantly clear that being a Jehovah's Witnesses isn’t easy but it is downright depressing and extremely difficult for many people. Do you think it help those who are struggling with such problems to read statements like this is the Watchtower?:

  *** w69 5/1 272 "Taking Pleasure in the House of My God" ***
  Jehovah’s witnesses of today are not guilty of neglecting the house of God. For one thing, they contribute, as they are able, toward the maintenance of their Kingdom Halls and toward the furtherance of the work of preaching the good news of the Kingdom. (Matt. 24:14; Mark 13:10) This they do cheerfully, thus showing that they take pleasure in the house of their God, while acting in harmony with Paul’s words: “Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”—2 Cor. 9:7.

  Anyway, the cause for the problems is now thoroughly identified but still the article goes on in it’s mock search:

  *** w95 12/1 12-13 Do Not Give Up! ***
  12 It is only natural to want to serve Jehovah as fully as possible. (Psalm 86:12) Why, though, do some feel very guilty about not being able to do more? For some, it appears to be related to a general feeling of worthlessness, perhaps resulting from unpleasant experiences in life. In other cases, inappropriate guilt may result from an unrealistic view of what Jehovah expects of us. “I had felt that unless it hurts, you must not be doing enough,” admitted one Christian. As a result, she set excessively high standards for herself—and then felt even guiltier when she was unable to reach them.

  Here we are presented with a lot of strange premises. First of all, why is it “natural” to want to serve “Jehovah”? Why do people feel worthless because they can’t distribute Watchtower literature? Can it be because the Bible and the Watchtower tell them they are? Could it be because they hear that over and over again at the meetings? Where do they get the idea of what “Jehovah expect”? Why is it so important for Jehovah, supposedly the greatest being in the universe that his “servants” should live in misery and poverty like these poor people which the Watchtower tell us about? Aren’t we told that Jehovah has all he needs, nothing is impossible for him, why is he dependent upon a two bit puny organization of half wits in Brooklyn to get his “plan” for mankind carried out? Why would he have to make his “chosen” ones life such a living hell? Who is responsible for getting such insane ideas into people’s heads? Could it be something like this:

  *** w98 7/15 12 Beware of a Lack of Faith ***
  Today, we have God’s complete inspired Word, the Holy Bible. We also have “the faithful and discreet slave,” appointed by Jesus to provide spiritual “food at the proper time.” (Matthew 24:45-47) Thus, God is still speaking. But are we listening? For example, how do we respond to counsel about dress and grooming or choice of entertainment and music? Do we “listen,” that is, pay attention to and obey what is being heard? If we have the habit of making excuses or taking exception to the counsel, we are opening ourselves to the subtle danger of hardening our hearts.

  ***w94 10/1 8 Time is fast running out for this wicked world, and it is imperative for all who want to survive this world’s end to learn what is involved in ‘obeying the good news’ and thus escape destruction. The next time Jehovah’s Witnesses call at your home, why not accept the invitation to have a weekly Bible study? Better yet, why not ask them to study the Bible with you because you want to understand it?”
  
  *** km 4/91 4 Reaping in Proportion to Our Personal Effort ***
  14 If we continually measure our personal effort, our worship of Jehovah will never become token service. What does that mean? It means that we will not become halfhearted in complying with God’s will, rendering only an appearance of service to him or a minimum amount without genuine heartfelt devotion and effort. Our service to Jehovah must be wholehearted.

  Do you think statements like the ones above will help people like those who lamented their problems further above? Do you think the next quote will make it any better?:

  *** w95 12/1 12 Do Not Give Up! ***
  13 What does Jehovah expect of us? Put simply, Jehovah expects us to serve him whole-souled, doing what our circumstances allow. (Colossians 3:23) There may, however, be a big difference between what we would like to do and what we realistically can do. We may be limited by such factors as age, health, physical stamina, or family responsibilities. Nevertheless, when we do all we can, we may feel assured that our service to Jehovah is whole-souled—no more and no less whole-souled than that of someone whose health and circumstances allow him to be in the full-time ministry.—Matthew 13:18-23.

  When did the Watchtower Society and the Watchtower magazine care about what people “realistically” can do? Why do you think the Watchtower magazine print stories of 80 year old witnesses who walk for a couple of weeks through dangerous countryside, swim crocodile infested rivers to get to an assembly? Is that the kind of realism they want?

  *** w95 12/1 12 Do Not Give Up! ***
  14 How, then, can you determine what you can realistically expect of yourself? You may wish to talk over the matter with a trusted, mature Christian friend, perhaps an elder or an experienced sister, who knows your abilities, your limitations, and your family responsibilities. (Proverbs 15:22) Remember that in God’s eyes your worth as a person is not measured by how much you do in the field ministry. All of Jehovah’s servants are precious to him. (Haggai 2:7; Malachi 3:16, 17) What you do in the preaching work may be more or less than what others do, but as long as it represents your best, Jehovah is pleased, and there is no need for you to feel guilty.—Galatians 6:4.

  Doesn’t this sound great folks? Is there any Jehovah's Witnesses alive that can truly say they are doing ALL they can in the “field ministry”? Why do you think that the people above who’s last worry should be the “field service” was raked by guilt because they didn’t “do enough”? Don’t you think the Watchtower Society know this very well, when they write crap like the quote above?

  Then it is time again for the all time, never failing con act. Here we have an organization which probably holds the world record for failed end time predictions, an organization that constantly throughout it’s history screamed “wolf” and always been wrong, pulling up the same worn out sorry cliché for the umpteenth time. Read and weep:

  *** w95 12/1 13 Do Not Give Up! ***
  Because the End Has Not Yet Come
  18 When a runner knows that he is near the end of a long race, he does not give up. His body may be at the limit of its endurance—exhausted, overheated, and dehydrated—but so near to the finish is no time to stop running. Similarly, as Christians we are in a race for the prize of life, and we are very near the finish line. Now is not the time for us to stop running!—Compare 1 Corinthians 9:24; Philippians 2:16; 3:13, 14.
  19 Christians in the first century faced a similar situation. About 61 C.E., the apostle Paul wrote to the Christians in Jerusalem. Time was running out—the wicked “generation,” the apostate Jewish system of things, was about to “pass away.” Especially did the Christians in Jerusalem have to be alert and faithful; they would need to flee from the city when they saw it surrounded by encamped armies. (Luke 21:20-24, 32) Timely, then, was Paul’s inspired advice: ‘Do not get tired and give out in your souls.’ (Hebrews 12:3) The apostle Paul here used two vivid verbs: “get tired” (ka'mno) and “give out” (e•kly'o•mai). According to one Bible scholar, these Greek words were “used by Aristotle of runners who relax and collapse after they have passed the finishing post. The readers [of Paul’s letter] were still in the race. They must not give way prematurely. They must not allow themselves to faint and collapse through weariness. Once again there is the call to perseverance in the face of hardship.”

  What can it possibly take to make such idiots learn anything, ever? Here they quote Paul, making his false prophecy a couple of thousand years ago. Predicting an end that never came. In the above quote we can also se an example of a fantastic manipulation of the Bible. The Watchtower actually claim that PAUL wrote the Christians in Jerusalem about the impending doom! Where? Paul and all the other idiots that couldn’t have a life because of the lack of “time” are now dead. In a few years all the idiots in the GB will be dead, and a good number of the idiots who listened to them also. The world will go on as always and new idiots will take the place of the dead ones. Idiots that because of extreme superstition will actually believe that because an old book talk about some doom that was said to be coming “soon” a couple of thousand years ago, is now imminent, again!
  In the mean time the old con game continues and new generations of con artists continue to prey upon new generations of idiots, willing to believe whatever they are told as long as it is presumably written in the “Word of God”. Well, now we have identified the source of the guilt and all the troubles of those poor people quoted above, those who shouldn’t “give up”. Have you learned anything, or are you still chasing the rainbow?

  Norm.
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  3

  "Letter8" by Norm?

  by sf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is this from norm h?:.

  http://home.c2i.net/norman/gov1.htm.

  skally

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Norm

  Hi sKally,

  You said:

  Nice page. May I cut/ paste text to "deliver"?

  sKally

  Go right ahead.

  Norm
• 
  3

  "Letter8" by Norm?

  by sf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is this from norm h?:.

  http://home.c2i.net/norman/gov1.htm.

  skally

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Norm

  Thats the URL to a page on my web site, what about it?

  Norm
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  3

  The Watchtower Society and Human Rights

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower literature occasionally publishes articles about human rights.

  usually when they think these rights are violated in connection with the watchtower society and jehovah's witnesses.

  the november 22.

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  2. 
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  Norm

  Watchtower literature occasionally publishes articles about Human Rights. Usually when they think these rights are violated in connection with the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses. The November 22. 1998. Awake! Magazine dedicates 14 pages to this theme.

  Already on the front page of the magazine the informed reader notices the first serious problem. The Magazine asks if we will ever experience Human Rights for all? Anyone familiar with Watchtower doctrine knows that this is a subtle reference to the future “Kingdom”. As usual the magazine completely omit to mention how this “Kingdom” is to be implemented. There is no mention of the most treasured of Watchtower doctrines and the pride and joy of all faithful Jehovah's Witnesses, namely the hitherto unprecedented genocide that will take place to make the Watchtower “Kingdom” possible. And of course the Awake!, isn’t interested in mentioning the Convention against Genocide, which can be summed up in these words:

  “Convention against Genocide
  This convention bans acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group. It declares genocide a crime under international law whether committed during war or peacetime, and binds all signators of the convention to take measures to prevent and punish any acts of genocide committed within their jurisdiction. The act bans killing of members of any racial, ethnic, national or religious group because of their membership in that group, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, inflicting on members of the group conditions of life intended to destroy them, imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group, and taking group members' children away from them and giving them to members of another group.”
  (Source: http://www.hrweb.org/legal/undocs.html)

  So in other words, Human Rights Watchtower style is going to be ushered in beginning with the worst Human Right violation in the history of mankind. And this is of course making the Watchtower God the worst Human Right violator ever. Make any sense to you?

  Awake! Goes through the motions with some general information about the history of Human Rights and on pages 8 - 10 there is a short summary about how Human Rights stand today.

  The magazine quotes article 1, of the Human Right declaration:

  “All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.”

  The Watchtower Society and their faithful followers violate this principle grossly because they of course don’t consider any non-witness in such a manner. And of course the Watchtower God doesn’t care much about your rights if you’re not a Jehovah's Witness, or the Christian God if you’re not a Christian.

  Awake!, also mention article 4:

  “No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.”

  What about all the people who are held in servitude by Brooklyn, who has taken their families and loved ones hostage, and keep people enslaved under the threat of Df’ing and shunning?

  When the article goes on to mention article 18, it gets really tragicomic. Article 18 sounds like this:

  “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.”

  Unbelievable isn’t it? What happens to a Jehovah's Witness who changes his religion? Do Brooklyn and their followers respect this right? Or do they implement sanctions against such a person? In the Jehovah's Witness mind only Catholics and others have this right, and only if they change their religion to being a Jehovah's Witness. After someone has become a Jehovah's Witness this right disappear. What hypocrisy!

  The next article quoted, article 23 is also interesting. Instead of quoting only the last part of the article as Awake!, does I will quote it in full:

  “(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favorable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
  (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
  (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favorable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
  (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.”

  Seeing what section 1 of article 23 say, one can certainly understand why Awake! Didn’t want to quote it. Does Jehovah's Witnesses have a “free choice of employment”? Can they without sanctions from Brooklyn work for Churches, the Military, etc.? Of course not. How’s the pay for Bethel workers? And how many trade unions do they have represented at Bethel?
  The Watchtower track record on Human Rights isn’t much to brag about, is it?

  Awake!, goes on to quote article 25:

  (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
  (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

  As we all know, Jehovah's Witness families are denied the right to decide what kind of medical treatment they want. When it comes planning for their future welfare regarding pensions etc., we all know what effect the Watchtower Society constant shouting about the end being near, have had on such arrangements. Another Watchtower Human Right violation.

  But what about all the other articles which the Awake!, didn’t mention? What about article 5 for example?

  “No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”

  How about the Watchtower Star Chamber courts? How about DF’ing and shunning? If that isn’t degrading treatment, what is?

  Article 8 should be very interesting for anyone who wants to make the Watchtower Society responsible for their many violations of Human Rights:

  “Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.”

  How does the Watchtower Society live up to article 10?:

  “Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.”

  Does the Watchtower Star Chamber courts live up to these rights? Have Jehovah's Witnesses the right to: “a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal”? We all know the answer to that.

  And what about article 12:

  “No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.”

  Do Jehovah's Witnesses have this right? Do the Watchtower Society and its elders respect this?

  And how does the Watchtower Society live up to article 19?:

  “Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.”

  Do Jehovah's Witnesses have “freedom of opinion and expression”? Can a Jehovah's Witness express opinions contrary to Brooklyn, without interference? Can a Jehovah's Witness, “seek, receive and impart information” without interference from Brooklyn?

  How does the Watchtower handle the first part of article 21?:

  “(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.”

  What happens to a Jehovah's Witness who tries to exercise this Human Right? Well, we all know the answer to that doesn’t we?

  Then on page 11, the Awake!, states that Human Rights for all is a reality all over the world!
  Responsible for this astonishing feat is according to the Magazine a non-government education program, which is going on all over the world, and it is carried out by (surprise, surprise) non other than, gasp, Jehovah's Witnesses in 230 countries!! According to the Magazine this is all due to a “higher source”. The problem with this reasoning is that this “higher source” is the very same one that is going to carry out the unprecedented genocide, “very soon, any day now”.

  In this part of the Magazine, Human rights seem to boil down to race and not waging war. And then it is introducing the old well know code word for the old millennial “Kingdom”, namely “World government”. But again not a single word is said how this “World government” is to be implemented. The Awake!, concludes by stating that, if you want to know how soon this “World Government” will be a reality, you should allow the Jehovah's Witnesses to study with you, that will give you a satisfactory answer. Yeah right!

  As demonstrated and documented above the Watchtower Society couldn’t care less about human rights, because they violate them all the time. The only interest Brooklyn has for these rights are when they can gain something themselves, by shouting about them. As we can see they have absolutely no intention of granting these rights to their members.

  Norm.