Posts by dropoffyourkeylee

12

Chautauqua Salute makes a comeback at the Indianapolis Regional convention 7/13/14

by dropoffyourkeylee in

as the regional convention ended in indianapolis, mark sanderson invited all the international delegates to come out onto the field for the final song.

as they walked out, they all held a white handkerchief aloft as they waved.

some in the audience waved a white cloth in return.

dropoffyourkeylee

In all fairness, the waving of handkerchiefs this time was very much a greeting from the international delegates and the rest of the audience, and was not directed at Sanderson. I'm not even sure he was still on the stage at that time. In contrast, the Chautauqua Salute pre-1916 was definitely a greeting in honor of Pastor Russell. I recall reading in P.S.L. Johnson's books that it was considered presumptuous when after Russell's death, the Chautauqua Salute was given to another speaker, like only Russell could receive it. Johnson was so fixated on Pastor Russell that he was shocked when someone else was saluted in this manner.

I don't know when the Chautauqua salute was purged, but I'm sure that by the mid '30's when the flag salute issue came up, anything with the name 'salute' had to go.

12

Chautauqua Salute makes a comeback at the Indianapolis Regional convention 7/13/14

by dropoffyourkeylee in

as the regional convention ended in indianapolis, mark sanderson invited all the international delegates to come out onto the field for the final song.

as they walked out, they all held a white handkerchief aloft as they waved.

some in the audience waved a white cloth in return.

dropoffyourkeylee

I found a source which mentions the Chautauqua Salute in numerous places. It evidently was very common in the 1910-1916 period.

http://www.jwforum.name/apol/apol_christ/Russell.pdf

Here are a few short excerpts mentioning it in various Convention Reports which can be found easily by searching the pdf:

...Address of Welcome
AT 11 o'clock Brother Russell came on the platform and was
greeted with the Chautauqua salute, which he returned, while all
joined in singing, "Blest Be the Tie That Binds."...

... There were about 250 present.
Brother Ward said: I know just how you all feel, you would like
to shake hands with Brother Russell. As we waved Brother
Russell off, so we will wave him here. (The Chautauqua salute
was given.)
Brother Russell:--I will wave mine in return.
Then after singing one or two more hymns the Chairman
introduced Brother Russell,...

... As he came on the platform all the
congregation rose, gave the Chautauqua salute and sang one
verse of "Blest be the Tie that Binds."...

..., Brother Russell arrived at the
hall and was warmly greeted with the Chautauqua salute and
singing of hymn No. 23. Brother Russell then addressed the
friends as follows:....

This is a practice which has been hardly mentioned on this site, and for it to be brought back in this summer's convention is remarkable.

12

Chautauqua Salute makes a comeback at the Indianapolis Regional convention 7/13/14

by dropoffyourkeylee in

as the regional convention ended in indianapolis, mark sanderson invited all the international delegates to come out onto the field for the final song.

as they walked out, they all held a white handkerchief aloft as they waved.

some in the audience waved a white cloth in return.

dropoffyourkeylee

As the regional convention ended in Indianapolis, Mark Sanderson invited all the international delegates to come out onto the field for the final song. As they walked out, they all held a white handkerchief aloft as they waved. Some in the audience waved a white cloth in return. Overall the effect was a good one, but what struck me as interesting is that this is a practice that was common in the early Bible Student conventions pre-1916. I remember reading about it before (don't remember where exactly), where it was called the 'Chautauqua salute'. I later found that it originated in the Chautauqua movement from upstate NY in the same time period. It is curious that they would bring back a Bible Student custom like that (I think Rutherford purged that one like he did so many others). Anyone else notice this?

75

Party in the kingdom hall!

by StephaneLaliberte in

check it out and download before i am forced to take it down!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf_rfrusa1c.

dropoffyourkeylee

My take is that this is definitely out of the ordinary for a Kingdom Hall, but certainly nothing wrong with it. One of the failures of the WT religion has been the inability to connect to people, whether through emotions or music or whatever it takes. The religion is so dry and boring (and the recorded kingdom songs are terrible) it is no wonder that the young people leave in droves. If the video is an indication of the way it is going, then it only means they are changing to what works. Nearly every church in the area where I live will have live music and events like what is in the video nearly every week. Some of the local churches pack in 800-1000 people every week.

9

Inactive relative defends new donation setup based on word of active relative. Doubts veracity of letters!

by Wasanelder Once in

my sister came to the society's defense on the issue of "pledged amounts" not being accurate because a realative stated that it didn't happen in her congregation.

so i said they were mistaken, and that i had access to the letters proving it.

she doubted that they were authentic.

dropoffyourkeylee

For what it is worth, no pledges have been taken in our local congregation either. The loan was announced to be paid off and not a word since

20

One language in the new system

by OneEyedJoe in

so at the convention, one of the talks was about how all people will speak a single language in the new system.

my ears perked up when i heard at the outset "now, we can't be dogmatic about this" because that immediately makes me think that they're backing away from a previously dogmatic stance.

he went on to say that everyone will be speaking hebrew in the new system because "evidently" (another word that gets my ears to perk up these days) that was what was spoken before the languages were confused at bable.

dropoffyourkeylee

Funny, the one-language thing being Hebrew was taught back in the 60's and early 70's, but then they went to the 'pure language' of truth explanation. If they are going back to Hebrew it is definitely a flip-flop

1

It turns out the WT leadership isn't the batsh-t craziest, there is another even worse

by dropoffyourkeylee in

the belief that the governing body must be of the anointed (little flock) has led the wt to jump through some hoops in recent years to find their leadership candidates.

the problems inherent in their beliefs:.

the number 144,000 is literal.. the anointed received their consecration before 1935 (this has had to be relaxed in the last few years).. the years have passed and most of the original anointed are dead.

dropoffyourkeylee

The belief that the Governing Body must be of the anointed (Little Flock) has led the WT to jump through some hoops in recent years to find their leadership candidates. The problems inherent in their beliefs:

The number 144,000 is literal.

The anointed received their consecration before 1935 (this has had to be relaxed in the last few years).

The years have passed and most of the original anointed are dead.

The new GB members have become anointed (or claim to be so) many years after 1935, and however it is spun, the pool of candidates for GB membership is very small.

Much of the organizational work is done by 'helpers' to the governing body, who are of the great crowd. These were referred to as Nethinim at one time but I haven't seen the term recently.

The whole scheme stretches belief, but surpisingly hardly any of the current JW's see the conflict. It is truly ridiculous how they have backed themselves into a corner in their leadership succession. But guess what, there is another organization that is even worse! I just received a copy of 'The Bible Standard' from the LHMM (Laymen's Home Missionary Movement) which was an early spinoff from the WT. Apparently they have been going down the 'helper-Nethinim' type of reasoning since the 50's, and have different names for all the ones since then. Instead of Nethinim, their leaders have been:

Little Flock

Ancient Worthies

Great Company

Youthful Worthies

Consecrated Epiphany Campers

I guess their current leaders are the Epiphany Campers - gotta love it...

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