as jehovah said to the israelites "you are my witnesses" and was happy to let them get on with things without major interference by him, he must have broadly approved of what the nation was doing, until jesus came and changed things.. for hundreds of years before jesus the jw's (israelites) had decided that the name of god was too holy to pronounce.
had he been upset by this he would have sent a prophet to sort this out, but no, it continued as practice,for 200 years at least,and remained uncondemned by jesus.. if jehovah had really wanted his people to use his name, would not a prophet, at least would not his son, have said so ?.
The Quiet One,
I view Christ as my Lord and as Peter said I do my utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished a slave of him. This sounds like worship to me.
The reason it sounds like worship to me is the Christ is called a god.
I am known as a Christian. I am a follower of Christ. I would die for my belief in him.
I think if I were to say any of those things about someone else you would have no trouble in believing I worshipped them.
the several threads on the literal 144,000 got me to thinking about this: it is getting pretty obvious that the literal 144,000 is at least getting very questionable and likely will not be able to stand long without a serious remodeling.
what else has fallen by the wayside?
i thought of these -.
The seven-thousand year creative days. It was silly from the beginning, but I think the kiss of death was Freddy's crazy 1975 making the end of 6000 years of the seventh day, and bringing in the millenium as the last 1000 - . They were not willing to give up the 1914 chain of chronology, but obviously the 7,000 years caused a problem. (or else Freddy was just plain wrong). Sooo - the seven thousand year days seem to have just vanished like the pyramid chronology
I dont think that they have vanished.
I think that they still hold to 4026 BCE as the creation of Adam.
They believe that the 7th creative day was blessed and will end as God intended it. (After the 1000year reign of Christ brings it back to how it was intended.)
They believe that the tribulation is imminent. Which will occur just prior to the thousand year reign of Christ.
Therefore if the 7th creative day could not have started before 4026BCE and the thousand year reign of Christ is imminent that will bring the 7th creative day to a blessed condition. The 7th creative day is around 7000years long.
As days are usually the same length. I think they still believe that they are about 7000 years long.
as jehovah said to the israelites "you are my witnesses" and was happy to let them get on with things without major interference by him, he must have broadly approved of what the nation was doing, until jesus came and changed things.. for hundreds of years before jesus the jw's (israelites) had decided that the name of god was too holy to pronounce.
had he been upset by this he would have sent a prophet to sort this out, but no, it continued as practice,for 200 years at least,and remained uncondemned by jesus.. if jehovah had really wanted his people to use his name, would not a prophet, at least would not his son, have said so ?.
"Did the disciples believe that Jesus was God?
The reason I mention the book is this comment you made and in another book I am reading it is mentioned in regard to this.
as jehovah said to the israelites "you are my witnesses" and was happy to let them get on with things without major interference by him, he must have broadly approved of what the nation was doing, until jesus came and changed things.. for hundreds of years before jesus the jw's (israelites) had decided that the name of god was too holy to pronounce.
had he been upset by this he would have sent a prophet to sort this out, but no, it continued as practice,for 200 years at least,and remained uncondemned by jesus.. if jehovah had really wanted his people to use his name, would not a prophet, at least would not his son, have said so ?.
yet Abraham bowed to them
I don't think that Abraham viewed them in this manner
“My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)
I think this scripture shows the difference
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?
Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”
(Heb. 1:5-6 NIV)
Surely worship has to do with what you do. How you view the god. I use money but it's not my god. I don't worship it. Some people owe me money and don't pay, so what. I trust in God. I respect money and would do what I can to retrieve what is owed but it doesnt worry me.
I view Christ as my Lord and as Peter said I do my utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished a slave of him. This sounds like worship to me.
You may find interesting to read a book by the Jewish scholar Jacob Neusner A Rabbi talks to Jesus. I have the book but have not read it yet.
as jehovah said to the israelites "you are my witnesses" and was happy to let them get on with things without major interference by him, he must have broadly approved of what the nation was doing, until jesus came and changed things.. for hundreds of years before jesus the jw's (israelites) had decided that the name of god was too holy to pronounce.
had he been upset by this he would have sent a prophet to sort this out, but no, it continued as practice,for 200 years at least,and remained uncondemned by jesus.. if jehovah had really wanted his people to use his name, would not a prophet, at least would not his son, have said so ?.
The Quiet One,
Yes that's how I understand it.
However I think bowing before a god is worship.
Especially if you are known as one of his followers.
as jehovah said to the israelites "you are my witnesses" and was happy to let them get on with things without major interference by him, he must have broadly approved of what the nation was doing, until jesus came and changed things.. for hundreds of years before jesus the jw's (israelites) had decided that the name of god was too holy to pronounce.
had he been upset by this he would have sent a prophet to sort this out, but no, it continued as practice,for 200 years at least,and remained uncondemned by jesus.. if jehovah had really wanted his people to use his name, would not a prophet, at least would not his son, have said so ?.
The Quiet One.
What do you think the act of worship was that the Devil asked Jesus to do?
as jehovah said to the israelites "you are my witnesses" and was happy to let them get on with things without major interference by him, he must have broadly approved of what the nation was doing, until jesus came and changed things.. for hundreds of years before jesus the jw's (israelites) had decided that the name of god was too holy to pronounce.
had he been upset by this he would have sent a prophet to sort this out, but no, it continued as practice,for 200 years at least,and remained uncondemned by jesus.. if jehovah had really wanted his people to use his name, would not a prophet, at least would not his son, have said so ?.
And are there any other religions that preach worldwide that YHWH/Jehovah alone should receive worship, not Jesus?
Probably not. But then they did preach that the generation that was alive in 1914 and was of an age of discernment would not pass away I believe.
I'm a little skeptical about what they preach
Worship and honour are totally different, though (think of 'honour your Father and your Mother', it doesn't involve praying to them, just respectful obedience)..
Surely prayer is just a form of talking and my parents were never identified as gods. If they were and I was their slave and imitator it maybe thought that i worship them more than honour them.
as jehovah said to the israelites "you are my witnesses" and was happy to let them get on with things without major interference by him, he must have broadly approved of what the nation was doing, until jesus came and changed things.. for hundreds of years before jesus the jw's (israelites) had decided that the name of god was too holy to pronounce.
had he been upset by this he would have sent a prophet to sort this out, but no, it continued as practice,for 200 years at least,and remained uncondemned by jesus.. if jehovah had really wanted his people to use his name, would not a prophet, at least would not his son, have said so ?.
"to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours." 1Cor. 1:2 NWT
The Quiet One I think this scripture is quiet clear that some were calling on the name of Jesus don't you?
The surrounding verses of Romans 10 are talking about Jesus verse 9 "... if you publicly declare that 'word in your mouth,' that Jesus is Lord" verse 12 "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all who is rich to all those calling upon him" (NWT)
If we put the word "Lord" in in the next verse 13 it seems to make sense with this in Acts
"... and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth." (NWT)
Don't you think so The Quiet One?
as jehovah said to the israelites "you are my witnesses" and was happy to let them get on with things without major interference by him, he must have broadly approved of what the nation was doing, until jesus came and changed things.. for hundreds of years before jesus the jw's (israelites) had decided that the name of god was too holy to pronounce.
had he been upset by this he would have sent a prophet to sort this out, but no, it continued as practice,for 200 years at least,and remained uncondemned by jesus.. if jehovah had really wanted his people to use his name, would not a prophet, at least would not his son, have said so ?.
I understood that the Hebrew word for worship had a meaning of prostrating oneself, serving a god.
as jehovah said to the israelites "you are my witnesses" and was happy to let them get on with things without major interference by him, he must have broadly approved of what the nation was doing, until jesus came and changed things.. for hundreds of years before jesus the jw's (israelites) had decided that the name of god was too holy to pronounce.
had he been upset by this he would have sent a prophet to sort this out, but no, it continued as practice,for 200 years at least,and remained uncondemned by jesus.. if jehovah had really wanted his people to use his name, would not a prophet, at least would not his son, have said so ?.
The Quiet One,
What is worship?
When I was a young man I had to be careful that i didnt imitate the world and follow some of the musicians in my dress and I couldn't put posters on them on my bedroom walls otherwise I maybe guilty of idolatry.
Do you think that imitating someone is worship? What if that person has been identified as a God?
What if I became known as a slave of a Rock Star. A Rock God. Do you think I would be guilty of idolatry?
I was a Jehovah's Witness but in Acts 1:8
"... and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth." (NWT)
This Jesus was identified as a god.
Paul spoke of him as his master and said to become imitaters of him.
In Philippians 2:10 it says,
"So that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend ..."
When the three Hebrews were asked to bow before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had erected although they knew it was a not God they couldnt bow as it would have been idolatry.
