Donna
You have discovered the secret of dealing with Dubs. You just have to out-love them. Besides, it does confound the hell out of them. God Bless You!
Jim
my name is donna.
i was directed to this forum through freeminds.org by randy watters.
i found his site to be very helpful to me and i highly recommend it to other newbies.
Donna
You have discovered the secret of dealing with Dubs. You just have to out-love them. Besides, it does confound the hell out of them. God Bless You!
Jim
1 corinthians 11:3
but i would have you know, that the head of every man is christ; and the head
of the woman is the man
I can certainly identify with the difficulties of keeping a marriage together when only one of the partners is a JW. It is especially dicey when the children are young as some elders feel that they have the right to set their standards for hair length, dress, behavior, etc.. I found it necessary on more than one occassion to remind the elders that Jehovah placed me as the head of the family and they should "butt out". Initially, they prepared my wife to expect a divorce and even encouraged it when they realized I wasn't going to join. We skated pretty close to divorce from time to time as she was a pioneer and insisted on raising the children as JWs. I was in the Air Force at the time and spent a lot of time on the road. The kids were afraid to go to my church because they knew that I might not be around to protect them from retaliation from their mother and their older siblings. Somehow we kept it together as we loved each other very much. The kids are all out of the Borg now except for my youngest son. He can't leave because he is married to a JW whom he loves very much. He has little contact with his 5 siblings and it is tearing him apart.
this weekend i'm going to dc for the reparation march.
i know this is an highly volatile subject for some so i'm not even going to ask for opinions.
but, for the record here's my stand - i'm for reparations based on principle.
Larry-We are not victims unless we choose to see ourselves as such. I referred you to the teachings of Jesus because you cited him in your original post as an example of a protestor. I would be interested in your proof that nothing he said was original. In my opinion, the so called Reparations movement will create a new group of victims and lead to the very opposite of the things that Dr. King stood for. How will you deal with the children of mixed race? Will the child of a black man and a whilte woman only be entitled to half reparations? How about the child of a black man and an Indian woman? Will they get double? My grandfather emigrated after the civil war. I owe you nothing.
Analysis-You are so right!
this weekend i'm going to dc for the reparation march.
i know this is an highly volatile subject for some so i'm not even going to ask for opinions.
but, for the record here's my stand - i'm for reparations based on principle.
Larry-The problem with seeing yourself as a victim is that people will come out of the woodwork to victimize you. You have grossly misrepresented Jesus's attitude toward authority. Reread Jesus's response to those who felt victimized by the authority of the Roman soldiers to command the carrying of their baggage for a mile. You apparently missed that part of the Jesus message about "turning the other cheek", which is an Aramaic idiom for looking at things differently.
well after 2 years of my bible study's with the father's help & the messiah help, i had to post this, to get thousands str once again: - it's a knowed fact that billions are infact dead in their graves, cause like christ already mention in john chapter 5 verses 28, & 28 & 25 that the resurrection will only happen on the last day... so if anybody in this life period teach that after you die you go to heaven is a liar(cough christianity), cause the resurrection has not happen yet...... and the only people who are going to heaven after armageddon is the 144,000(book of revelation said's 'they were', in revelation chapter 1, god said 'things that must shortly come to pass)...... continue>
Freetobeme-Good Post!, Great Chuckle!
their kingdom interlinear translation of the greek scriptures declares:
11. john 1 :1 [''god" as "a god" in order to.
gruss comments:
You are very much mistaken if you think the Bible has not changed over the centuries. There is substantial evidence of editing even before Jesus was born. The old testament is especially rife with examples. Consider the story of Abraham passing off Sarah as his sister which is told at least three times with varying characters and circumstances. Your argument that changes would have been detected by others doesn't hold water since there were few copies around before printing was invented. Those that were around were generally printed in Latin which was not the language of the masses. Moreover, the Catholic church did not encourage the distribution of bibles to the masses and the first few that tried it were burned at the stake for their efforts. The church was not above creating forgeries of "ancient texts" when it suited their purpose. The source of the Trinity doctrine (1st John) in the King James Version was a carefully forged manuscript from a monestary in Spain created for a cocky greek scholar by the name of Erasmus who had a contract with a Swiss printer to publish a greek version of the Bible. Unfortunately, the KJV translaters used this corrupted edition as their main source document. More recent editions are definitely more accurate than some of the earlier texts, but they all go back to greek which was not the language of Jesus and the apostles. Moreover, there are numerous examples of margin notes by the scribes creeping into the text and then being copied over and over. Some changes were blatent editing. The original language describing the crucifiction described Jesus as being crucified with two other criminals. The scribe was offended by the term other and simply edited it out. There was considerable debate in the eary church about what books should be included. As you no doubt know, the Catholic versions have a few extra books.
in october of 2000, i faded away from the watchtower.
like most people, i have family and friends who are jw's (including my wife and parents).
fading is generally the best method for people in that situation.
Expatbrit-Great Post! After seeing the trauma her older brothers and sisters went through when they left, my youngest daughter used many of the techniques you suggested. As a result, she has a much better relationship with her full time Pioneer mother and can actually sit at the same dinner table with her, a privilege not accorded her dF'd brothers and sisters. Fading definitely has advantages when you want to maintain some sort of relationship with family who stay in. I maintain my relationship with my wife by declaring certain subjects off limits. Since I was never formally a witness, we are able to socialize with her witness friends and my non-witness friends.
their kingdom interlinear translation of the greek scriptures declares:
11. john 1 :1 [''god" as "a god" in order to.
gruss comments:
Very informative post! However, it is well to remember that even if we could recover the original greek (sans copying errors over the centuries, additions, margin notes that crept into the original text, outright editing, etc.) we might not have the truth. Greek was certainly not the original language of the apostles and the writers were likely working from a lost aramaic text that itself may have been passed down with errors. Certain aramaic idioms got literal translations that lost the original meaning. To complicate matters, the aramaic spoken in northern Palestine (where Jesus grew up) was not the same as aramaic spoken in the area of Jerusalem. This problem is highlighted when Jesus is speaking with a learned member of the Sanhedrin and used the term "You must be born again". It wasn't understood and had to be explained. If you've ever tried to use your "Texmex" spanish in Madrid, Spain, you know what I mean. In numerous cases, it appears that the greek authors translated passages without very much knowledge of aramaic customs and culture. George Lamsa, whose native lanuage was aramaic and who was raised in the aramaic culture, has been helpful in pointing out those flaws and shedding light on statements made by Jesus that have been misunderstood. A classic example is the account of the wedding at Cana which the new testament author has used to signal the beginning of Jesus's ministry. Lamsa points out that middle eastern weddings were drunken brawls that went on for days. It was not the host's responsibility to provide the wine, but the guest's. The first wine (and the best)was provided by the best friend and so on. It would have been a social "gaffe" to go out of turn in providing the wine. When Mary, embarrassed for the couple, said to Jesus, "They have no wine", she was, in effect, saying, "it is your turn". His response was simply, "No, it is not". It would have been scandalous for Jesus, a rabbi, to provide more wine to an already "wasted" group. It was customary for the rabbi to serve water when his turn came and to encourage the guests to sober up. Having sampled some of the lower grade middle-eastern wines, I would certainly prefer water. My point is that the practice of "Bibliolotry", the uncritical worship of a book often practiced by the more fundamentalist groups, is no better and no more logical than the practice of idolotry. The manipulation of the greek text by Fred Franz to promote society tenets and teachings was probably not the first time that has happened.
thanks for your support on my thread "bad day".. it seems things don't want to get better.
sorry for moaning, but i thought i'd update you all too.... firstly i saw the dental specialist today (remember, infected wisdom tooth?).
he said (after thorough examination, xray etc).
You are not alone! None of us are. However, you need more friends like Chelbie who "knows" that you are going to be O.K.. Count me as one of those!. Medical science is just beginning to discover what the mystics have known for ages; "Thoughts have power to create" especially in our own bodies. Some have said that our flesh bodies are merely reflections of thoughts we hold about ourselves. The source of most of our medical problems is our "stinkin thinkin". So, it is very important as to what you expect as an outcome. When dealing with petitions for healing, Jesus often responded with the phrase, "be it done to you as you believe". That could also be translated, "be it done to you as you expect". You body contains a marvelous pharmeceutical plant capable of producing medication 1000 times more effective than anything you could get from a physician. This plant is activated by your brain. It can produce poison, or it can produce powerful healing medication. The end product is within your power to control by your conscious thought. Worry and fear are not conducive to healing medication production. Choose wisely! The problem is that our mental "ruts" are pretty deep and I find myself slipping back into them from time to time. However, that is what friends are for. They help us climb out. You see, we really are all one and we can know the truth about each other. We are all made out of "God Stuff", perfect, whole, and complete. The real you in earthly terms is "stainless steel and teflon coated". Nothing harmful can touch the perfect you that God created, despite what you might have been taught by the WTBTS. I am envisioning you right now being bathed in the healing light of God's love. That light is perfecting everything that concerns you and every cell in your body is responding to that light. God Bless You!
If you haven't already done so, check out a book by Bernie Siegal called, "Love, Medicine, and Miracles". You might also find some of the work by Depak Chopra helpful in reorienting your thought processes.
any idea?
i would love to hear from especially you know and fred hall.
i mean only if fred hall thinks the wts needs reformation.
My dad used to say" Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig".