Posts by 00DAD

92

The Faithful and Discreet Slave - A JW Myth

by 00DAD in

jw
friends

probably this topic has been dealt with before, but i'm relatively new here, so perhaps y'all will be willing to indulge me in my pursuit for clarity.

regarding the anointed, the gb recently said this: .

"we thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.

00DAD

I just started reading Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron. Really an interesting read!

He really deconstructs the FDS illusion by showing how the beliefs the WT had at the alleged "time of Christ's inspection", 1918 - 1919, differ radically from what their beliefs are now. He analyzed 48 different beliefs to support this analysis. His conclusion is essentially that if they were right then, they should not have changed any beliefs; but if they are right now, then Christ would not have chosen them for teaching falsehood and error. Either way, they lose.

Also, they were either 40 years too early or 29 years too late as Russell first taught that Christ returned in 1874 and that Armageddon would occur in 1914. The belief that His "invisible presence" happened/began in 1914 wasn't officially changed until 1943.*

In this thread we have been looking at the question of whether the FDS actually have any involvement in the "spiritual feeding". So far, no one has come up with any evidence that they do. In fact, the quotes from the WT that we've considered indicate the opposite. The conclusion is that, if the anointed have no involvement in the feeding, then by definition they then cannot be the FDS! I don't know if Cameron deals with this as I'm only about 1/2 through the book yet. I'll keep you posted ...

Daniel

* There are some comments in some publications in the '30s that show the Society (Rutherford) was leaning this way, but that was still more than 15 years AFTER the fact. Either way, during the time of Christ's inspection, 1918-1919, they teaching was that he returned in 1874.

89

Victoria, Australia: October 11th hearing. All five cases made it through the court...just!

by AndersonsInfo in

this is a preliminary summary only.

i hope to obtain more details later.. .

all five cases are still within the criminal justice system.

00DAD

AndersonsInfo: "Also the true legal and religious identity of the "faithful and discreet slave" was revealed. (More on this development later)"

Barbara, thanks for the update. You really got my attention with your above quoted comment about the FDS. I can't wait to hear more on that!

Have you seen this recent thread on that subject?

The Faithful and Discreet Slave - A JW Myth

At the risk of encouraging cross-posting, you may want to take a look at it and include your "revelations" there too if appropriate.

Cheers,

Daniel

92

The Faithful and Discreet Slave - A JW Myth

by 00DAD in

jw
friends

probably this topic has been dealt with before, but i'm relatively new here, so perhaps y'all will be willing to indulge me in my pursuit for clarity.

regarding the anointed, the gb recently said this: .

"we thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.

00DAD

Blondie: "I knew quite a few of those considered the FDS, jws who declared themselves anointed once a year by partaking at the Memorial. I would always ask if they were consulted about new information. They would say that they found out when I did when I received the new publications and that included those at Bethel and on the GB."

This is perfect! Within the paradigm of the WTBTS' FDS doctrine, the anointed are the "domestics" when they RECEIVE the spiritual food individually. They are only part of the FDS "composite body" when they participate in the GIVING of the "food at the proper time" (FATPT).

No giving, no FDS. It's really as simple as that.

As Blondie points out, they have no role at all in the preparation, let alone the providing of the "FATPT". Heck, they aren't even "consulted about new information"!

I realize that this is only anecdotal evidence, but so far no one has been able to produce a single shred of evidence to the contrary.

37

COs visit sep 2011 - feb 2012

by dozy in

apologies if already discussed - the second cos talk discusses 4 "important" areas where jws need to consider the biblical principles involved.. answers on a postcode ( clue - one word - 2 letters - 1st letter is "n" ).

should a true christian?:.

(1) use a social networking website.

00DAD

Yeah, the "Large Gatherings" prohibition always bothered me too. The implication always seemed to me to be:

GB - We can organize "Large Gatherings" of 10's of thousand or more and it will be fine because our supervision will ensure it, even if we are (like Jesus) not bodily present. We are "God's Visible Organization".
Elders - You can perhaps oversee gatherings of say 10 - 50. More than that and--unless it's at the KH--things can get out of hand. Even still, it's best if two or more of you are there to keep an eye on each other, because you never know!
Everyone else - You can't be trusted so supervise yourself or others.

Field service anyone?

92

The Faithful and Discreet Slave - A JW Myth

by 00DAD in

jw
friends

probably this topic has been dealt with before, but i'm relatively new here, so perhaps y'all will be willing to indulge me in my pursuit for clarity.

regarding the anointed, the gb recently said this: .

"we thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.

00DAD

jwfacts: thanks for the references you shared. In particular, the quote from the Branch Organization Manual was interesting. I always suspected this was the case but until now never knew for sure.

So, a clearer picture is emerging:

IF the FDS is a "composite body" "of the anointed ones living on earth at any given time" and "as a composite body the slave class is responsible for feeding the spiritual household", in fact, it is BY DEFINITION the providing to the "domestics" " their food at the proper time" which is the alleged PROOF that they are in fact the FDS; THEN, the fact that of the approximately 11,202 professed anointed ones on earth (give or take a few "mentally imbalanced" ones) 11,195 of them are NOT involved in the Spiritual Feeding in any way, shape or form, the inevitable conclusion is that BY DEFINITION they could NOT possibly be the FDS because they do not DO that which is, again BY DEFINITION, the proof of who they claim to be.

The GB then is reduced to the position of being "responsible representatives" of error and a lie.

Wish I could put that more succinctly. Maybe that's why--although I always had this vague, gnawing uncertainty about this doctrine--I didn't see it that way before. I'll have to work on that!

22

Seeking Reinstatement

by Quendi in

no, i'm not seeking to be reinstated so don't worry.

but i did want to raise a point in relation to this.

i know this was true in my case and i've seen it in others i have talked to about this.

00DAD

Further, after I was disfellowshipped, I worked towards reinstatement for nearly two years ONLY so I could have fellowship again with my two sons.

Then one day a few months ago, it hit me: I realized that was the one and only reason I wanted to be reinstated. I still believe in God, but I have totally seen through the hypocrisy of the WTBTS/GB. In fact I was waking up to that back in 2004 and it was this awakening the ultimately led to my DFing in 2009.

I realized that if I "went back", I would have to also go back to pretending to be someone I wasn't, someone I didn't want to be and to someone that would again be a hypocrite pretending to believe in something I didn't. I couldn't do that.

I love my sons very much and miss them dearly, but that was just something I just couldn't do. I hope that someday they realize this and understand how important it is for me, as for everyone really, to be true to yourself and to not submit to the hypocrisy of others just for the sake of family.

"No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." - Awake, July 2009, p. 29

22

Seeking Reinstatement

by Quendi in

no, i'm not seeking to be reinstated so don't worry.

but i did want to raise a point in relation to this.

i know this was true in my case and i've seen it in others i have talked to about this.

00DAD

I can only share my personal experience as an former elder for 20 years coupled with the comments of those I personally knew.

In the instances which I was involved or others that were described to me by friends close to me and known to be reliable, the overwhelming majority of people that seek reinstatement do so for one reason and one reason only: They want to be able to have fellowship again with their family and friends .

Everything else is just rhetoric and b.s. I knew it, my fellow elders knew it, and certainly the individuals getting reinstated knew it. But we all had to go through this silly little contrived charade where they told us what we wanted/needed to hear in order to grant their request. That's why so many are never very active, if at all, after their reinstatement.

It's embarrassing now to admit that I was ever involved in this travesty.

92

The Faithful and Discreet Slave - A JW Myth

by 00DAD in

jw
friends

probably this topic has been dealt with before, but i'm relatively new here, so perhaps y'all will be willing to indulge me in my pursuit for clarity.

regarding the anointed, the gb recently said this: .

"we thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.

00DAD

LongHairGal: thanks for the comments. I liked your description of the concepts as being a "spiritual facade" . It is similar to Leolaia's appraisal of the FDS as a "phantom entity".

92

The Faithful and Discreet Slave - A JW Myth

by 00DAD in

jw
friends

probably this topic has been dealt with before, but i'm relatively new here, so perhaps y'all will be willing to indulge me in my pursuit for clarity.

regarding the anointed, the gb recently said this: .

"we thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.

00DAD

Leolaia, thank you very much for your detailed response. You've obviously given this some thought and done your homework.

Although I knew some of what you posted, much was new for me. Regardless, to see it all put together in one well-thought out essay was very helpful.

I especially loved your appraisal of the FDS as a "phantom entity". I will use that for sure!

Cheers,

Daniel

47

Islam More Lenient on Apostates than the WTBTS!

by 00DAD in

islam more lenient on apostates than the wtbts!.

this morning i came across this thought provoking comment in a cnn news article:.

harris zafar, national spokesperson of the ahmadiyya muslim community usa, does not mince words on the subject, stating in a huffington post opinion piece that "islam prescribes absolutely no punishment for apostasy.".

00DAD

Sighs ...

To dgp: No I am not misinformed. You (as well as a couple of others that responded) apparently did not read my entire original post. The last sentence said:

"That being said, there are of course still many hard-core "True Believer" muslims that see things differently than Mr. Zafar, as the particular issue that prompted the CNN article make obvious."

I realize my thread title is simplistic and potentially misleading regarding what I personally know about Islam. But I actually thought it would only serve to get the attention of JWN posters like yourself and that you would read my entire post before responding. Silly me.

It Mr. Zafar's comment and his comment alone got me thinking along the lines of "what if the WTBTS viewed apostates differently ...?" (Yes I read the entire online article that was the source of his. Did you?)

I just thought it was interesting that even among muslims, there are some that are more open-minded and less fanatical. Among active JWs there is NO room for a difference of opinion, none. You can't even discuss having a discussion about doctrines. The GB simply will not allow it.

Cheers,

Daniel