braincleaned

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Posts by braincleaned

• 
  141

  Knowledge by Proxy

  by braincleaned in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

  we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

  but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

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  braincleaned

  Fair enough, Tec & Ucantnome. I was just refering the definition given by Paul.
  I cannot argue against your definition — nor Christ for that matter, since I do not believe he is who you say he is.
  
  That's okay. We differ.
• 
  141

  Knowledge by Proxy

  by braincleaned in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

  we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

  but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  braincleaned

  Ucantnome, you are again assuming that the Bible is a valid source. It is not. Not the OT. Not the NT.
  
  DATA-DOG, God assures us he is Love, and all powerful. The accounts in the Bible clearly contradict this.
  I'm not focusing on the flaws of the presumed creation — but on the flaws of the Creator.
  
  That's why Christians are forced to have a double standard in their moral sense: Genocide, Slavery, Vengeance, Jelousy, are okay if it comes from God, that we conveniantly are banned from questioning.
  Such circular rationalization. This is why I write and attempt to share the tools of critical thinking and logic to believers.
  I also have special family reasons to be so passionate about slaming Reality on the table.
• 
  141

  Knowledge by Proxy

  by braincleaned in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

  we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

  but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  braincleaned

  Theredeemer, nicely argued. Love the Star Wars analogy... so true.
  
  Here's a little meme I did...
  
  https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1463092_168885836653366_705160169_n.jpg
• 
  141

  Knowledge by Proxy

  by braincleaned in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

  we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

  but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  braincleaned

  " I would, and have, examined that evidence."
  
  Tec, could you please tell us what that evidence was? And how did you question/examine it — and against what?
  Thanks.
• 
  141

  Knowledge by Proxy

  by braincleaned in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

  we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

  but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  braincleaned

  OnTheWayOut, you say " belief can very much so be a choice. A person can choose from different sources or from personal experience."
  
  I totally agree — that's what I was saying, you trust a source (yourself, ot exterior sources), THEN you believe or not.
  Belief per se is NOT a choice! Even a gut feeling that comes from within — we either accept it or deny it in earnest (belief).
  
  A) Trust in a source
  B) Belief in reaction to the source
• 
  141

  Knowledge by Proxy

  by braincleaned in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

  we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

  but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  braincleaned

  "Because nothing in that definitions says that faith is BASED on hope."
  
  Tec, I think you missed my point by saying "Faith is the assurance (assured expectation) OF what one hopes for."How is that assured expectaion not based in hope? Are we to play the game of semantics?
  
  If I follow your argument, you attempt to solidify the word "Faith" by making "assurance" it's main meaning.
  I do find your argument a clever one, but assurance means nothing without the object of that assurance.
  Do you see the problem?
  
  ~~~~~~
  
  Ucantnome, Children have the firm persuasion that Santa will bring them gifts. How is their faith any more realistic because they just belive it to be true?
  
  I admit I do not understand why all of you faithful attempt to rationalize the obvious — faith is just hope in invisible evidence — a gut feeling. How much persuaded or
  "assured" you are of this "evidence" doesn't negate the fact that it is not based in Reality!
  Be honest with yourselves — you have faith because your gut tells you it's true and that no hard evidence can topple that faith.
• 
  141

  Knowledge by Proxy

  by braincleaned in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

  we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

  but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  braincleaned

  According to Hebrews 11:1 — Faith is based on hope rooted in belief of yet unprovable invisible evidence.
  
  Simply put, it is based in the holy books (or other sources) of one's choice or upbringing.
  First, one must trust those stories to be true.
  Once trust is given, this will generate solid hope even if there is no provable evidence for it.
  
  In short. Faith is:
  1) — TRUST in a chosen source
  2) — HOPE that all that is promised will happen
  3) — BELIEF with no need for any visible or tangeble evidence.
  
  This Faith will be strong enough to even refuse or rationalize any hard evidence that would contradict this Faith.
  Faith beats reality to those equipped with it. It is more powerful than all empircal knowledge!
  
  
  Maybe someone else has a better definition?
• 
  141

  Knowledge by Proxy

  by braincleaned in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

  we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

  but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  braincleaned

  adamah, may I call on context.
  
  Russell was not saying it was impossible — he meant it was impossible for him!
  The context reveals the tone and intent of this quote.
  
  And yes, the latter is called "rationalization" — something he didn't subscribe to either.
  
  To know what meaning Russell pushes behind his words, reading "Why I'm not a Christian" is revealing.
  
  Just setting the quote strait.
• 
  141

  Knowledge by Proxy

  by braincleaned in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

  we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

  but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  braincleaned

  //Romans 10;17 says faith comes from hearing//

  Ucantnome, verse 17 answers to the question in the context; "Lord, who has had faith in our message?" — only then 17 answers "from hearing".

  Consequently, "hearing" has nothing to do with Faith as per definition (well defined in Heb. 11:1).
• 
  141

  Knowledge by Proxy

  by braincleaned in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

  we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

  but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  braincleaned

  Ucantnome — Faith, by it's very defiition, is based on hope and trust in invisible, unseen evidence (Heb. 11:1).
  
  It's not based on logic.
  It's not based on evidence.
  How could this be anything other than pure emotion?
  
  I respect anyone's choice in the matter.
  Religion fills a need for many; but that need is not a rational one. That's all I'm saying.