ScenicViewer

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Posts by ScenicViewer

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  20

  James Beverley's book on Penton's expulsion now on Abebooks

  by MrMonroe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "crisis of allegiance" is a slim, but excellent book written by a professor of religion on the events in lethbridge, alberta, around 1981, that led to the expulsion of jim penton, a jw who believed he was anointed but also happened to think the wts had some doctrines wrong.. it's a great read that ties in quite closely with the campaign to get rid of ray franz, showing the dirty tricks used by the society to rid themselves of someone who dared to question them.

  penton was an academic who the society loved when he wrote a book on their human rights legal challenges ... but when he expanded his research and decided to do a book on their history, pow!

  they began regarding him with great suspicion.

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  ScenicViewer

  When I checked Abebooks, there were 2 available. One was being sold by kbooksusa. The same seller had it listed on Amazon, and I bought it there. Aparrently the seller had only one copy, so when I bought it from Amazon, it dropped from Abebooks.
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  57

  ACRONISMS ... let's play,,, do you know what this means?

  by talesin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  okay, these two i have 'borrowed' from the us military --- do you know what they mean?

  snafu.

  fubar.

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  ScenicViewer

  SNAFU: Situation Normal All Fouled Up (polite form)

  WOPR: War Operations Planned Response (from the movie War Games). Plus several other meanings.

  DEFCON: Defense Condition -or- Define Constant (methematics)

  MAD: Make a Difference, Mutually Assured Destruction, among others

  SOL: Summer of Love, Statute of Limitations, and more

  SSDD: Same Stuff Different Day (polite form)

  WNL: Within Normal Limits

  LOLNAD: (No idea, I'm stumped)
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  107

  Video of my Circuit Assembly visit!

  by serenitynow! in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ttprya0kk.

  this is the video my apostabuddy put together about last week's caper.

  enjoy!.

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  ScenicViewer

  @ Carla, who said...

  Did that place look kind of empty or are they always like that?

  My last KH meeting and assembly were several years ago, but I remember them being just like what you saw in the video. There was a time when Circuit Assemblys were packed, Kingdom Halls too. But for the past couple of decades, at least, they are getting emptier and emptier.

  For the last several years that I attended meetings, the KH was often half empty. Sometimes on Thursday nite (our Theocratic School and Service Meeting nite) the KH would be less than 1/3 full. It was embarassing.

  There were enough publishers on file to fill the building, if they just brought unbaptised children with them, but the publishers were staying away.
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  35

  Question...?

  by cptkirk in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  does anyone come into this religion who is doing well in life?

  not to say any one particular person never did well in life, but when they were studying and getting baptized, at that particular time in their life, were things going good for them?.

  i'm trying to figure out if anyone comes into this religion, while life is going good for them.

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  ScenicViewer

  Agent zero said, i certainly don't think a blanket statement or generalization can be made about it, because there are ALWAYS exceptions. as was already brought out, often people who seem to have it all together outwardly, have other internal issues others don't know about.

  Very true in my opinion, that making generalizations is risky. I actually agree with the OP, in that many people are attracted to the religion because of problems in their life. The Society promotes the religion on that basis...no more hunger, no more financial worries, no more war, no more violence, no more anything that stems from our imperfect nature, no more problems associated with this old system, come join our spiritual paradise now. Naturally people with problems will be attracted.

  But not all who come in have problems. The religion is also promoted on the basis of 'Truth', worshiping God in the right way, loving God and neighbor, and many respond actually believing it is all that.

  Another thing that attracted me personally, that I did not mention previously, was the people and friendships that had developed. I liked the people! And still do. Most witnesses are good, caring people -- but as I've learned, blind as well -- and being one of them provided a very strong sense of community, a powerful motivator for me. However I'm sure the same sense of community can be had with Mormons, Adventists, and other groups as well. It's the organization that is the big problem; witnesses are so misled by it.

  Sizemik said, For those converting prior to the internet age . . . obtaining any external information at all on Jehovah's Witnesses was next to impossible . . . and publically available knowledge of this group was non-existent.

  That is huge Sizemik. I remember hearing of only one book before I became a witness, and that was 'Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave'. To my discredit, I did not bother to get a copy and read it. One of the great scriptures used by withesses, then and now, is 1Th 5:21, "Make sure of all things and hold fast to what is fine." If I had actually applied that safeguard it would have made a huge difference in the path I chose, but I ignored it. I had already accepted that the Society was telling the truth, and I let the organization do my 'making sure' for me.

  Now it's different. The internet is a life saver. I research lots of information about JWs, almost every day. And I use Amazon and Ebay to buy old literature so I can read for myself what the Society once said, rather than accepting what most witnesses say about the past, which is usually to blame the followers for having a 'misunderstanding.'

  If most witnesses used the internet to research and investigate the religion, the organization would crumble. But they are afraid of it, because the Society has demonized both the internet and those who dispense information there. I remember when I first went on and looked up something about witnesses. I could feel my heart start pounding, I did a double check of the house to make sure I was alone, my breathing became heavy. I felt guilty.

  A relative, now in her 70s, tells me it was different in the '50s when she was active. The Society used to welcome investigation. Put it to the test, they would say. We have nothing to hide. But it was safe enough to say that then, since, as you noted Sizemik, there was no readily available information exposing the Society's past.

  In reality the Society has everything to hide, and getting at the information is easy, once you get past the fear of displeasing an organization, and use the available resources...the internet!
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  35

  Question...?

  by cptkirk in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  does anyone come into this religion who is doing well in life?

  not to say any one particular person never did well in life, but when they were studying and getting baptized, at that particular time in their life, were things going good for them?.

  i'm trying to figure out if anyone comes into this religion, while life is going good for them.

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  ScenicViewer

  when did you leave anyway?

  I began to leave mentally in the early to mid '90s. I attended my last meeting 10 years later.

  still in that mentality (back then) that you are a helpless entity, and whatever the adults say goes.

  It was really the organization that I believed in; the adults were an extension of that. Or so I thought.
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  32

  How important is it to you that Lawence Hughes wins his case against the WT and doctors

  by zengalileo in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  just curious.

  in my opinion it is the most importantr thing ex jws should be supporting right now.

  the case is at a crucial point.

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  ScenicViewer

  Randy gained more respect from me that day, just for saying "thanks".

  I have to second that notion regarding Randy's manners. He practices what he preaches. After making a small Paypal donation to Freeminds, I received a Thank You email, as well as a Thank You card in the mail. It does impress.
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  156

  Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  victoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.

  (this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.

  i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.

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  ScenicViewer

  court may say, in effect, 'Since you've complied now, even if it's a few months late, we'll let this go with a slap on the wrist and a fine.'

  This may well be true . . . but if it is a successful prosecution it will leave some with a criminal record . . . and plenty of bad publicity.

  Oh yes! I hadn't really thought of that. Having the criminal record will be nice, and deserved. (I know this is a criminal case, but for some reason I keep thinking of it in terms of a civil case.)
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  35

  Question...?

  by cptkirk in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  does anyone come into this religion who is doing well in life?

  not to say any one particular person never did well in life, but when they were studying and getting baptized, at that particular time in their life, were things going good for them?.

  i'm trying to figure out if anyone comes into this religion, while life is going good for them.

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  ScenicViewer

  so you did have a problem than? you had anxiety about armageddon and you wanted to assuage that anxiety?

  @ me?

  No, I don't think I had a problem with armageddon. I really felt what I was learning was the truth. When armageddon failed it had little affect on me, and I stayed in the religion for many years. I was not fully aware of what the organization had said about 1975 being the end, and when remarks were made about some people misunderstanding it all, I didn't question it. Only in the past few years have I looked into that, and have discovered what a completely dishonest organization the WTS is.

  In the early days, I spent long hours reading publications, such as Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, the Society's first history book, and looiking into doctrinal beliefs. The history impressed me greatly. The accuracy of the doctrinal beliefs impressed me too. As I mentioned, I was very gullible. I believed everything I heard -- from the platform, at an assembly, from a CO, from a pioneer, from a mature person in the congregation, from the publications -- I believed it all, only to eventually find out that so much of if was pure manipulation.

  My eyes began to open when the long held understanding of the 'generation that will not pass away' was changed. I could see prior to the change that time was running out, and knew that something would have to give sooner or later. What gave was getting rid of the old understanding, and replacing it with the silly notion of a 'contemporary generation of wicked people', or words to that effect, followed by 2 or 3 more changes since.

  At about the same time I noticed that elders lie from the platform. For example I heard one eder say, "The Society's position on blood has never changed." I felt that wasn't quite right when he said it, and I never forgot it. When I got the internet I looked into that, and found there had been literally dozens of changes over the decades.

  I honestly believed it was the truth, and gave my life to it. I think that when I came in I was about as normal as most kids my age.
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  35

  Question...?

  by cptkirk in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  does anyone come into this religion who is doing well in life?

  not to say any one particular person never did well in life, but when they were studying and getting baptized, at that particular time in their life, were things going good for them?.

  i'm trying to figure out if anyone comes into this religion, while life is going good for them.

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  ScenicViewer

  Myself, I came in during the 1975 boom, and was very young, 20 at baptism. I had no problems in life, and was in college, which I dropped out of, and really believed what I was learning. If there is a pattern of normal people coming it, I would think it happens particularly during an 'end-of-the-world' scare, and young people are always gullible.
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  156

  Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  victoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.

  (this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.

  i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.

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  ScenicViewer

  @ James-Woods, who said...

  Everything changed upon learning that the Watchtower Society (WTS) had instructed elders and others in the congregations to comply with the working with children laws and to actually obtain their working with children cards. Getting the WTS to comply with the laws after three years of refusing to comply was quite an achievement for Steven Unthank. With this development who would not want to sit in on the next court hearing and witness the defense tactics the WTS and their legal team launched to get themselves out of the potential crisis they got themselves into.

  I do not understand the above statement - if the society instructed the elders and others to obtain the cards, then why is this lawsuit still going on?

  Is the Watchtower Society trying to get out of having them obtain the cards now?

  Unless I missed it, I didn't notice a response to your question. Yes, the Society did instruct the elders to get background checks, but this was done after the deadline to comply witht he WWC Act had passed, and even after a criminal court proceeding had taken place. The violation of law has already happened, even if the Society is now complying.

  I myself am curious to see how far this will go with criminal prosecutions. The court may say, in effect, 'Since you've complied now, even if it's a few months late, we'll let this go with a slap on the wrist and a fine.'

  I hope it goes farther than that.

  BTW, it isn''t a law suit, it's a criminal prosecution.