Posts by ScenicViewer

77

Heavenly Gates Closed in 1935 Re-opened in 2007

by Alfred in

since 1935, the watchtower had been categorically teaching (for over 6 decades) that the heavenly calling of the 144,000 anointed christians had ceased in 1935. this teaching was especially significant to older jws (especially those who spent much of their lives serving the watchtower as pioneers, elders, missionaries, bethelites, etc.

) because many of these would eventually turn their attention to the aging governing body members and feel a sense of relief knowing that the end was drawing ever so near.

in other words, as more governing body members (who were born before 1935) passed away, the closer they would get to their long-awaited reward of surviving armageddon and living on paradise earth where they would finally hug grass-eating lions near a waterfall while marveling at snow-peaked mountains in the distance.

ScenicViewer

@ Band on the Run, who asked,

Did they just have new light and as of a certain date, you were encouraged to suddenly be a remnant member?

No, it isn't encouraged to be a remnant member, but the number of partakers at the memorial is increasing. I'm going to copy and paste some information from my notes here. It shows the difference between what used to be declining numbers of partakers, and the now increasing number of partakers, and the way the Society responds to it.

(Latest View of Memorial Partakers and The 144,000)

One change is in the way the Society looks at the number of partakers. The declining number of partakers was supposed to be proof positive that we are in the last days. Under the subheading 'Six Convincing Lines of Evidence [of being in the last days]', the following article says,

"Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling, though some will evidently still be on earth when the great tribulation begins. Most of the remnant are quite elderly, and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller." (Watchtower Jan 15, 2000, p 13)

-- and --

"There is every reason to believe that the number of anointed ones will continue to decline as advanced age and unforeseen occurrences end their earthly lives." (Watchtower Aug 15, 1996, p 31)

However, in recent years the number of partakers has increased significantly. Obviously, the declining number of partakers proved nothing regarding the last days.

Another change is in when the number of 144,000 was sealed. Previously it was viewed to be in 1935. The organization said,

"Logically, the calling of the little flock would draw to a close when the number was nearing completion, and the evidence is that the general gathering of these specially blessed ones ended in 1935." (Watchtower 1995 Feb 15 p.19)

-- and --

"There is good reason to believe that the number of 144.000 anointed Christians was complete decates ago...The facts over the decades reflect both the completion of the calling of the anointed and Jehovah's blessing on the growing "great crowd," who hope to survive "the great tribulation."" (Watchtower Aug 15, 1996, p30)

The reason for looking at 1935 as though it was the year the 144,000 were sealed, is that it was in that same year that the 'other sheep' were explained to be ones with an earthly hope. It was assumed that since Jehovah provided the "new understanding" of the 'other sheep' in 1935, it was because the 144,000 must have been completed in that year.

But because of the increasing number of partakers in recent years, the Society is forced to take a step backward in the 1935 date, and it now says,

"Thus it appears that we can not set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends." (Watchtower 2007 May 1 p.31)

And what about all those new partakers? The Society suggests that some partakers may be emotionally unbalanced, or are influenced by past beliefs, and are partaking by mistake.

"...A number of factors — including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance — might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know." (Watchtower 2011 Aug 15 p.22)

Like so many Watchtower beliefs, this one is a state of flux, and there is confusion all around.

34

Australia Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse/Governing Body Of Jehovah's Witnesses Court Case

by mind blown in

.. case number: b12083527.

.. case number: b12083108.

.. case number: b12083367.

ScenicViewer

Of course the WTS would put out a "don't watch this apostate program" warning to all the JW's as soon as they caught wind of it.

Yes they probably would, but many Witnesses would watch anyway. A major media report on anything to do with your religion is hard to ignore. Just telling Witnesses not to watch would inform many that wouldn't have known about it. Major news coverage would be great.

31

Do you know the oldest Kingdom Hall personally that still exist today?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

this kingdom hall was built in the 1960's and they still meet there.

.

ScenicViewer

The KH I attended was built in 1960. It was built from a plan that was common at the time in the area, and several other KHs were the same. In the late '80s it was given a major remodel.

15

When were the annointed resurrected to heaven?

by drewcoul in

jw
friends

i have heard that there has been some changes as to what the witnesses teach regarding the resurrection of annointed to spirit life.. what is the current teaching?

is it still that an annointed is resurrected "in the twinkling of an eye" as i was always taught?

i was also taught that this resurrection began in 1918. .

ScenicViewer

(Slightly off topic, since the following does not have to do with the resurrecection, but with the general view of the 144,000.)

One change is in the way the Society looks at the number of partakers. The declining number of partakers was supposed to be proof positive that we are in the last days. Under the subheading 'Six Convincing Lines of Evidence [of being in the last days]', the following article says,

"Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling, though some will evidently still be on earth when the great tribulation begins. Most of the remnant are quite elderly, and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller." (Watchtower Jan 15, 2000, p 13)

-- and --

"There is every reason to believe that the number of anointed ones will continue to decline as advanced age and unforeseen occurrences end their earthly lives." (Watchtower Aug 15, 1996, p 31)

However, in recent years the number of partakers has increased significantly. Obviously, the declining number of partakers proved nothing regarding the last days.

Another slight change is in when the number of 144,000 was sealed. Previously it was viewed to be in 1935. The organization said,

"Logically, the calling of the little flock would draw to a close when the number was nearing completion, and the evidence is that the general gathering of these specially blessed ones ended in 1935." (Watchtower 1995 Feb 15 p.19)

-- and --

"There is good reason to believe that the number of 144.000 anointed Christians was complete decates ago...The facts over the decades reflect both the completion of the calling of the anointed and Jehovah's blessing on the growing "great crowd," who hope to survive "the great tribulation."" (Watchtower Aug 15, 1996, p30)

But because of the increasing number of partakers in recent years, the Society is forced to take a step backward in the 1935 date, and it now says,

"Thus it appears that we can not set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends." (Watchtower 2007 May 1 p.31)

And what about all those new partakers? The Society suggests that some partakers may be emotionally unbalanced, or are influenced by past beliefs, and are partaking by mistake.

"...A number of factors — including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance — might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know." (Watchtower 2011 Aug 15 p.22)

Like so many Watchtower beliefs, this one is a state of flux, and there is confusion all around.

20

James Beverley's book on Penton's expulsion now on Abebooks

by MrMonroe in

"crisis of allegiance" is a slim, but excellent book written by a professor of religion on the events in lethbridge, alberta, around 1981, that led to the expulsion of jim penton, a jw who believed he was anointed but also happened to think the wts had some doctrines wrong.. it's a great read that ties in quite closely with the campaign to get rid of ray franz, showing the dirty tricks used by the society to rid themselves of someone who dared to question them.

penton was an academic who the society loved when he wrote a book on their human rights legal challenges ... but when he expanded his research and decided to do a book on their history, pow!

they began regarding him with great suspicion.

ScenicViewer

I have had online discussions with JWs who believe Penton is utterly biased against the WTS. Others have evidently chosen not to read the book, believing it to be a hatchet job on their beloved religion.

Jehovah's Witnesses typically believe that any person that doesn't completely agree with them is biased, since they see themselves as God's only true religion. Almost all of them will refuse to read anything that doesn't come from their leadership; they are taught to only read literature that comes from their 'faithful and discreet slave.'

Penton, having once been one of Jehovah's Witnesses, will be viewed as an apostate rebel for leaving the religion, and the Witness that would read his book is rare indeed, and probably has already seen reasons to have doubts about the rightness of the religion.

12

Regular attendance at the Kingdom Hall produces lackadaisical outlooks

by Judicial Committee in

jw
friends

regular attendance at the kingdom hall produces lackadaisical outlooks.

i was born a witness until i simply grew up, and started becoming responsible for my own views and decisions uncluttered from a magazine or (organizational) indoctrination.

there is a segment of our society that is much more content, to simply allow someone or something to make all lifes important choices for them.. i feel there is really a creator who loves and wants the best for mankind, trust me i did not learn this fact from the witnesses, all ever learned from them was to be dull minded and unable to question anything pertaining to spiritual matters, and live in fear and discomfort.

ScenicViewer

Not to mention it creates laziness. I feel that it creates an attitude of not following through on things.

That is an eye opening post WTWizard. Laziness, failure, finding ways to dodge, it's all learned behavior. To make it worse the Society adds guilt on top of that by making remarks like 'Are you doing enough', 'Can you do more', Can you share more fully in this life saving work'. So you put in more time, sharing in the work. And it leads to more disappointment, more failure, more dodging those calls.

And it does carry over into other parts of your life.

Waking up is rewarding!

156

Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank

by AndersonsInfo in

victoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.

(this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.

i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.

ScenicViewer

@ Mind Blown

You mean Harold Viv Mouritz that's mentioned in theses child abuse articles? Maybe he knew too much or was told by GB how to handle these cases so they sent him away so he can't point the finger?

Yes, that's the name that was mentioned in the previous thread.

Question...Would he have been sent away because he could point the finger at someone, or perhaps because he was more directly involved in the child molesting issue? If he could point a finger, he probably wouldn't since he is an organization man. They all know when to keep quiet, or to lie in the name of the Theocratic War Strategy.

Or, is there a possibility he could not have passed a backaground check himself?

There are many possible reasons why a man would be moved to another branch, but the timing of this looks bad. After all, the Society cautions all witnesses to avoid the appearance of wrong doing, and failing to do so can be a disfellowshipping offense for any individual Witness.

The timing is this:

-- Several Watchtower entities are charged with 7 counts each, criminal charges for failing to comply with the WWC law.

-- The first court appearance happens on 9-13-2011, and the second is scheduled for 10-11-2011.

-- After the first court session the branch director is moved to Poland.

-- Next the Society issues a letter to bodies of elders telling them to comply with the law, still before the second court session.

-- Then, at the second session, the Society's attorney, when asked by the Judge why compliance hadn't been met, replied 'it's all been sorted out now.'

This does not have a good appearance. If the man is completely innocent of anything to do with child molesting, the Society is making him look guilty.

156

Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank

by AndersonsInfo in

victoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.

(this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.

i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.

ScenicViewer

This is the thread, was posted about a month ago.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/215817/1/Australian-branch-co-ordinator-sent-to-Poland-Victorian-court-case

156

Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank

by AndersonsInfo in

victoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.

(this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.

i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.

ScenicViewer

It will be interesting if some of the elders fail the WWC application. I imagine they will need to be removed, which is the main embarrassment that the WTS is probably trying to avoid.

Yes Paul, I think you probably hit the nail on the head there.

I agree too. This felt from the beginning that the Society was hiding something. I keep waiting to hear a good reason for the high official (overseer, or director?) of the Australian branch that was moved to Poland after the first criminal court date had taken place.

43

What changes have you noticed in the Witness

by d in

i have noticed are more angrier then when i was a child in the 90's and that they seem more uptight.what changes have you seen?.

ScenicViewer

JW GoneBad said,

It is as though the WTBTS needs a new theme, facelift, name or something in order to recapture the R&F's interest.

I believe this is true. There was a time when there were constant new understandings, new updates, new light, etc. But today there aren't any creative minds left in the Watchtower. Fred Franz was the master of the organizational facelift. No matter how silly his notions appear to be now, they were devoured by Witnesses back in the day, and each time it made them feel reinforced that this religion is the truth! It's good that the facelift days are gone, since they were nothing more than thin facades anyway.

I see more and more witnesses that have no clue what they are supposed to believe. I clearly remember a Circuit Overseer saying many years ago, in a talk to the congregation, that most people in Christendom didn't know what they were supposed to believe. The gist was that since we are Jehovah's people, and have the truth, we know very clearly what we believe. Those days are gone.

Regarding the blood issue and the meaning of 'this generation', most witnesses are without a clue. The truth to many of them is simply that they don't vote, believe in the Trinity, or celebrate Christmas. And that's about it. A few years ago I mentioned the United Nations NGO relationshiop to a 40 year old born-in witness. After about 5 minutes of reviewing the Society's teachings about the UN, he said "I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about." He really didn't have a clue what the Society's view of the UN was.

Witnesses don't witness anymore. When I came in, early '70s, knowing your beliefs and being able to explain them, using your Bible, was emphasized. At some point, during the 80s as I recall, it began to change. Extended conversations at the doorstep were now discouraged. Witnessing became more of a 'let the literature do the witnessing' kind of job. I was always puzzled by that, since people are the Witnesses, not the literature. Now I get the feeling it was meant to protect Witnesses from learning about their religion from house holders who knew more about it than they did. It wouldn't do to be asked a hard question that made you think, because you might find out you don't have the truth after all.

It has spiraled downward from there. Thinking became discouraged by putting a distasteful sounding adjective in front of it, and calling it 'independent thinking'. That made it sound like you were rebelling against God if you dared to think. After all, who have become independent from God and his organization? Apostates. They are rebels because of independent thinking. A positive spin on thinking, such as calling it constructive thinking, or critical thinking, was avoided. This was a controlling mechanism that made Witnesses feel guilty for asking honest questions that showed solid reasoning.

Today the organization depends on Witness not knowing very much. They are like automatons going through mechanical motions, responding to a leadership that has reduced itself to cracking the whip to maintain control. (As evidenced by recent study articles regarding 'mentally diseased' apostates that should be 'slaughtered'.)