That family took the "higher" ground.
scotoma
JoinedPosts by scotoma
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19
A Mom, Dad And 2 Grown Kids (20ish) All Disfellowshipped This Week!
by minimus init happened in a local kingdom hall this past week.. my daughter went on one of the kid's facebook accounts and he posted pics of him with 2 joints in his mouth at the same time.. i heard the parents and sibling were aware of it and never reported it to the elders..
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69
The Biggest Fear From The Watchtower Organization Is ???
by minimus ini think the organization is worried most about how jws will stay loyal to their families even as it rejects the admonition of the gb and elders..
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scotoma
minimus:
It used to be that the "Congregation Servant" was the best speaker in the congregation and he conducted the Watchtower Study.
The "Assistant Congregation Servant" was the second best speaker in the congregation.
The "Bible Study Servant" was the third best speaker in the congregation.
The "Ministry School Servant" was the best speaker of the young up-and-commers.
Good speakers tend to be highly verbal and not afraid to speak their mind.
Notice they were all called "Servants" too - Not OVERSEERS
Then came the"elder" arrangement and suddenly all these yes men who didn't have teaching skills received certification as THE OFFICIAL TEACHERS in the congregation. So the talks got more and more boring. Kingdom Hall became a rest home. A place where you could zone out and maybe even catch up on some sleep. With 10 or twelve elders you would be afraid to seek help because you knew your business would be in the street.
With the appointment of elders the Watchtower destroyed qualified teachers.
The Book Your Will Be Done (1958) had the correct view of elders. Here are a couple paragraphs and the questions with those paragraphs.
29. In Christendom, what have “elder” and “eldership” become, and what questions do we raise about their supporting texts, Acts 14:23 and Titus 1:5?
29 In the congregations of Christendom the term “elder” has become a title and “eldership” has become a position or office to which men are appointed. In support of this, the religious organizations having such elders and elderships appeal to Acts 14:23 (AS), which tells of Paul and Barnabas as founders of congregations: “And when they had appointed for them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they had believed.” Also Titus 1:5 (RS): “This is why I left you in Crete, that you might amend what was defective, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you.” However, does this mean appointing men to eldership as an office, or appointing men who were already elders in the required sense to offices or service positions in the congregations? Is “eldership” appointive?
31. How does one become a Christian “elder,” and in what way is it, then, that “elders” are appointed?
31 Now as to the Christian congregation or congregation of spiritual Israel, one fact is clear from Ephesians 4:13, 14 and 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 and Hebrews 5:11-14: A man becomes a Christian “elder” or “presbyter” by spiritual growth and development, not by mere physical age or by appointment. According to the qualifications set out by Paul at 1 Timothy 3:1-12 and Titus 1:5-9, it is from men who are “elders” by spiritual growth that overseers and ministerial assistants are appointed. It is in this sense, then, that those with appointive power appoint elders, not to be elders, but to be responsible servants in or over congregations.
Notice the emphasis was on men being appointed SERVANTS
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25
Peace In The Middle East - It's a comin'
by scotoma infrom the un news centre (with breaking news from the un news service).
un officials hope observance of international year will lead to israeli-palestinian peace16 january 2014 the united nations today launched the international year of solidarity with the palestinian people, with senior officials urging that the observance be used to redouble efforts to achieve a durable peace between israel and palestine.. the coming year will be crucial to achieving the two-state solution, deputy secretary-general jan eliasson said in his remarks to the un general assemblys committee on the exercise of the inalienable rights of the palestinian people.. mr. eliasson said israeli and palestinian negotiators are working hard towards a peaceful, comprehensive settlement of all permanent status issues.
that means a settlement that ends the occupation that started in 1967 and which would end the conflict.. it also means securing an independent, viable and sovereign state of palestine living alongside a secure state of israel, where each side recognizes the others legitimate rights, he added.. the secretary-general and i urge all in the international community to work together to translate the solidarity and desire for peace expressed on this occasion into positive action for security and for justice.. last november, the general assembly adopted a resolution proclaiming 2014 as the international year of solidarity with the palestinian people, and requested the committee to organize activities around the observance.. general assembly president john ashe told todays meeting that he hoped the year leads to robust support for the people of palestine.
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scotoma
Consider this perspective, though admittedly, it is a black swan type of scenario.
There's reason for optimism on Arab-Israeli peace - Michael Cohen: On Politics, Domestic And Foreign
theguardian.com, Sunday 19 January 2014 08.00 EST
It's quite possible that of all the people writing about the Arab-Israeli conflict these days, I'm the
only one with any confidence that the current peace talks will lead to a positive outcome.
Generally, betting on a Middle East peace deal is the political equivalent of playing Three Card
Monte. It's impossible to win. But, at the same time, there are real reasons for optimism about
where this process might lead. In fact, Israelis and Palestinians may be closer to peace today than
any point in the past 65 years.
This is, in part, the result of a number of historical currents that have come together at this
moment. Israelis continue to remain generally supportive of a two-state solution; the Palestinians,
while less supportive, have seen their political leverage slowly dissipate; and perhaps above all,
the rejectionists on both sides but particularly on the Palestinian side (and I'm speaking here of
Hamas) are in an unusually weak position.But historical currents by themselves are not determinative. There is also the role of personality
and contingency. Enter John Kerry.When Kerry began his quixotic pursuit of a comprehensive peace deal, many were skeptical. But
even the doubters gave begrudging hosannas to the approach he had taken. Unlike the flawed
Oslo process, Kerry insisted that this round of peace talks aim towards the achievement of a final
settlement on all outstanding issues. Even more importantly, he brought the neighboring Arab
states into the mix by incorporating the Arab Peace Initiative, which calls for full recognition of
Israel in return for acceptance of a Palestinian state. This had the effect of both giving Israel a
major sweetener for a deal but also offered the prospect of marginalizing Hamas even further by
drying up their support in the Arab world. It was a strong starting point.Since then Kerry has kept up the pressure and created a negotiation structure that left both sides
(but particularly the Israelis) with little choice to move forward or be blamed for any breakdown
in talks. Case in point, earlier this month Kerry traveled to the region in order to get sign off from
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Abbas on a framework agreement that would
serve as the template for future negotiation. While the framework represents a rough set of
principles, it will likely establish certain baseline ideas, like a Palestinian state oriented around
the 1967 lines, that are anathema to the Israeli right-wing. As a State Department official said to
me, "We strongly believe that the framework would be significant breakthrough in the process as
we move toward a final status agreement/peace treaty."This will likely leave a clear set of options for Bibi: sign the framework agreement and set Israel
on the path to peace or don't and risk a break with the United States or worse (more on this in a
second). Of course, much will depend on how decisively the framework agreement lays out the
clear outlines of a final deal – and the extent to which it forces Netanyahu to adopt positions that
he and his right-wing supporters have long rejected. But Netanyahu has bobbed and weaved his
way during these negotiations and has refused to make conclusive moves in the direction of
peace. Kerry is making it increasingly difficult for him to continue that charade.The US secretary of state, however, is not alone in tightening the vise on Netanyahu. The
Palestinians are playing their part as well – though, truth be told, more out of a position of
weakness than strength. Considering the inclination of the Palestinian political leadership to, in
the depressingly accurate words of former Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban, never miss an
opportunity, it is quite possible (and many have speculated) that Bibi's approach to Kerry's
gambit was to hope the Palestinian leadership would blow things up.But with the head of Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas as supportive of a two-state solution
as any Palestinian leader ever; with Hamas in a historically weak position and with Palestinians
having largely turned their back on violence as a political tool the Palestinian leadership have
stuck along with Kerry's diplomacy even they are almost certain to get something less than a
good deal. Try as hard as he might to conjure examples of Palestinian duplicity, Netanyahu has
failed, putting him and Israel in the uncomfortable position that if the talks don't move forward, it
is Israel that will likely shoulder the blame – a fact not lost on the Israeli Prime Minister.This matters more than it did in the past because it is becoming increasingly difficult to ignore
the growing signs of Israel's international isolation. For those not getting the hint, the message
from Europe and, in particular, the European Union has been fairly clear. Over the past several
weeks there have been repeated examples of European countries and companies putting Israel on
notice. There were the guidelines put forward by the European Union last August banning EU
grants or loans to Israeli companies doing business in the West Bank. Last month, a Dutch water
company ended its business relationship with an Israeli firm that operates in the occupied
territories and the UK Trade & Investment, a business promotion book, warned companies about
the "reputational implications" of collaborating with Israeli settlements.Yet at the same time the EU has said that a deal with the Palestinians would open up a floodgate
of new investment and closer economic ties with the Jewish state. The Europeans have used both
the carrot and stick with Israel – and made abundantly clear what will be the consequences of
failure.Finally, there is the pressure coming from inside Netanyahu's own government. Over the past
several weeks, two of Bibi's more prominent coalition members – Tzipi Livni, who is helming
the peace talks and Yair Lapid, who helms the second largest voting bloc in the Israeli Knesset,
have hinted that they expect the peace process to move forward … or else. Livni's departure
would not be a major problem for Bibi, but Lapid leaving would be something else altogether. It
would force Netanyahu to create a new coalition in the Israeli Knesset – one composed almost
exclusively of far right and religious parties.Bibi could, of course, choose to go down that road or he could move forward with negotiations,
sign the framework agreement and hope that an exit ramp somehow materializes along the way.
In short, he could do what the recently deceased Ariel Sharon would never do – let others dictate
decisions about Israel's future.To some extent, however, the train has already left the station. Anything less than a deal in these
talks – no matter who is blamed for their collapse – will almost certainly lead to a very dark
future for Israel. No longer will a nation that rules over millions of Palestinian Arab, and denies
the majority of them full political rights, be able to label itself the Middle East's only true
democracy. Relations with the United States (particularly with the Obama Administration) will
inevitably suffer. How much? No one can say for sure, but that uncertainly alone should concern
Israelis.The harsh criticism last week of Kerry by Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon – and the
tough US reaction to it – offers one potential preview. Finally, the international sanctions and
boycott effort will only gather steam; as too will Israel's growing international isolation.For Netanyahu, the choice to make peace and give up the West Bank is increasingly the only
good option he has left. The question now is whether Bibi realizes that the game is up or whether
he fully appreciates the consequences of failure. The argument for optimism on the peace process
is that never before have the historical forces been so well-aligned for the achievement of a final
deal.State Department officials speak to the "courageous decisions" taken on both sides to date:
namely Netanyahu's agreement to release Palestinian prisoners and Abbas's assent to put off
efforts to "upgrade the status of the Palestinians in international organizations". But, of course,
far more difficult steps will need to be made to reach a deal that is acceptable to all sides.
Ultimately, any breakthrough will come down to political leaders willing to make a decisive
break with the past. We're not there yet. -
69
The Biggest Fear From The Watchtower Organization Is ???
by minimus ini think the organization is worried most about how jws will stay loyal to their families even as it rejects the admonition of the gb and elders..
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scotoma
Most americans are descended from people who didn't care enough about family that they were willing to cross the ocean for the good life even though they might never see their family again. (I'm referring to the late 1800 and early 1900s)
The JW biggest problem will be in their "fertile" third world countries and countries made up of people who didn't discend from immigrants.
The people who didn't leave their homeland for the "New World (Americas) were genetically predisposed to make sacrifices to stay with their families because of strong dependence and attachment. These people are NOT going to follow the rules of the Watchtower's cold herritage.
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25
Peace In The Middle East - It's a comin'
by scotoma infrom the un news centre (with breaking news from the un news service).
un officials hope observance of international year will lead to israeli-palestinian peace16 january 2014 the united nations today launched the international year of solidarity with the palestinian people, with senior officials urging that the observance be used to redouble efforts to achieve a durable peace between israel and palestine.. the coming year will be crucial to achieving the two-state solution, deputy secretary-general jan eliasson said in his remarks to the un general assemblys committee on the exercise of the inalienable rights of the palestinian people.. mr. eliasson said israeli and palestinian negotiators are working hard towards a peaceful, comprehensive settlement of all permanent status issues.
that means a settlement that ends the occupation that started in 1967 and which would end the conflict.. it also means securing an independent, viable and sovereign state of palestine living alongside a secure state of israel, where each side recognizes the others legitimate rights, he added.. the secretary-general and i urge all in the international community to work together to translate the solidarity and desire for peace expressed on this occasion into positive action for security and for justice.. last november, the general assembly adopted a resolution proclaiming 2014 as the international year of solidarity with the palestinian people, and requested the committee to organize activities around the observance.. general assembly president john ashe told todays meeting that he hoped the year leads to robust support for the people of palestine.
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scotoma
Frazzled,
Once again the argument that the "past = the future"
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38
Does Anyone Feel the Ministerial School Helped Them?
by Band on the Run inas a born-in, i was eager to join the ministry school.
my cousins were also born-in but lived in different states.
there was keen competition to see who could do mature things, such as baptism (my mom said when i was 35) and ministry school.
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scotoma
The ministry school was the only thing that benefited me. I got my first reading at 8 years old in 1953.
My father fought with the School "Servant" to let me join.
I gave my first hour (actually an hour back then) when I was 17. I was also appointed school overseer in our congregation of 150 publishers.
I remember that I never gave anyone a "W". W used to actually mean WEAK at that time. Later it meant WORK ON THIS.
I make my presence at meetings 2 or 3 times each month to keep my wife happy. In her new congregation they keep trying to get me on the school and I tell them I graduated.
Since I'm seriously add it helped me organize my thoughts.
The really bad thing about it was I felt my speaking ability was a gift from God and that I would only have it for use at the Kingdom Hall.
I know now that it is 10% gift and 90% practice and that the skill is transferrable to any subject.
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24
World's Greatest Music: Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, voted # 1
by compound complex innow playing at kdfc.com.
interesting that dvorak's symphony no.
9 was voted to the number two spot .
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scotoma
Dis-Member:
Whatever the mis-understanding it gave us an insight to your deep music experience and appreciation. It is amazing that there were JW's who still managed to keep their identity together and actually flourish.
When I was a kid my mother used to skip meetings and take me to monthly concerts when the local music association brought famous orchestras and performers to town. She was a very devout JW who special pioneered during the depression in rather remote parts of the country but had an appreciation for art, music. She was disappointed when I chose to pioneer rather than go to college.
I listen to everything even the junk for nostalgic purposes.
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25
Peace In The Middle East - It's a comin'
by scotoma infrom the un news centre (with breaking news from the un news service).
un officials hope observance of international year will lead to israeli-palestinian peace16 january 2014 the united nations today launched the international year of solidarity with the palestinian people, with senior officials urging that the observance be used to redouble efforts to achieve a durable peace between israel and palestine.. the coming year will be crucial to achieving the two-state solution, deputy secretary-general jan eliasson said in his remarks to the un general assemblys committee on the exercise of the inalienable rights of the palestinian people.. mr. eliasson said israeli and palestinian negotiators are working hard towards a peaceful, comprehensive settlement of all permanent status issues.
that means a settlement that ends the occupation that started in 1967 and which would end the conflict.. it also means securing an independent, viable and sovereign state of palestine living alongside a secure state of israel, where each side recognizes the others legitimate rights, he added.. the secretary-general and i urge all in the international community to work together to translate the solidarity and desire for peace expressed on this occasion into positive action for security and for justice.. last november, the general assembly adopted a resolution proclaiming 2014 as the international year of solidarity with the palestinian people, and requested the committee to organize activities around the observance.. general assembly president john ashe told todays meeting that he hoped the year leads to robust support for the people of palestine.
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scotoma
Metatron,
I don't think people in the USA know or care about what's been going on there.
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24
World's Greatest Music: Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, voted # 1
by compound complex innow playing at kdfc.com.
interesting that dvorak's symphony no.
9 was voted to the number two spot .
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scotoma
Why the attack on classical music?
People who are willing to rank their favorite classical pieces probably have an appreciation for that music.
When I played in symphony orchestra I enjoyed Beethoven because I could experience the intricacies. But I get sleepy listening to it at a concert.
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25
Peace In The Middle East - It's a comin'
by scotoma infrom the un news centre (with breaking news from the un news service).
un officials hope observance of international year will lead to israeli-palestinian peace16 january 2014 the united nations today launched the international year of solidarity with the palestinian people, with senior officials urging that the observance be used to redouble efforts to achieve a durable peace between israel and palestine.. the coming year will be crucial to achieving the two-state solution, deputy secretary-general jan eliasson said in his remarks to the un general assemblys committee on the exercise of the inalienable rights of the palestinian people.. mr. eliasson said israeli and palestinian negotiators are working hard towards a peaceful, comprehensive settlement of all permanent status issues.
that means a settlement that ends the occupation that started in 1967 and which would end the conflict.. it also means securing an independent, viable and sovereign state of palestine living alongside a secure state of israel, where each side recognizes the others legitimate rights, he added.. the secretary-general and i urge all in the international community to work together to translate the solidarity and desire for peace expressed on this occasion into positive action for security and for justice.. last november, the general assembly adopted a resolution proclaiming 2014 as the international year of solidarity with the palestinian people, and requested the committee to organize activities around the observance.. general assembly president john ashe told todays meeting that he hoped the year leads to robust support for the people of palestine.
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scotoma
Mind Blown,
The Ho-Hum attitude is based on the idea that the past equals the future.
What's wrong with that attitude? It's simply false. If you believe in emergence as the product of evolution you have to know that the past doesn't equal the future. We wouldn't be here if that were true. There IS a thread to history but it isn't based on perfect fidelity.
No event in itself is significant as an "event".
It's just like a royal flush in poker. In reality, a royal flush isn't rarer than any other hand. It's how it is perceived in the context of the game that gives it value.
Surely, the conflict between Israel and Palestine is minute compared to Pakistan and India but that is also why it is such a nuisance. The population of Israel and Palestine is about 1/1000 of the earths total population. It is at the intersection of three continents. It is at the center of the worlds oil production. It is a deeply religious area with holy places important to three great religions.
If these two small countries can't achieve peace it casts a shadow over the hope of peace for mankind.
If these two ancient enemies can come to an agreement it will be a cause for optimism that all countries ought to be able to settle their differences and achieve peace.