what if i asserted the following as true?
the watchtower bible and tract society has no interest in an effective evangelical program of conversion.. .
would that sound silly?
The Christian Broadcasting Network of Pat Robertson is an interesting success story.
There is no reason JW's couldn't have supplemented their knocking activities with this strategy.
In fact you can see from the Watchtower's internet activity that they have learned a few things from CBN.
Read the history of CBN and you will no longer be able to argue against the effects of satellite broadcasting.
http://www.company-histories.com/The-Christian-Broadcasting-Network-Inc-Company-History.html
what if i asserted the following as true?
the watchtower bible and tract society has no interest in an effective evangelical program of conversion.. .
would that sound silly?
Terry,
I don't see a conspiracy either. You state your perspective very clearly in this threads title.
I am not really criticizing the topic. I think it is one of the most important features of trying to understand what JW's are REALLY doing.
But some of what you say wanders off into a conspiratorial framework.
Wikipedia has a good working definition of Conspiracy Theories:
A conspiracy theory is anexplanatory proposition that accuses a person, group or organization of having caused or covered up an event or phenomenon of great social, political, or economic impact.
The whole wikipedia article of course elaborates further.
In particular I find the following section a little paranoid:
(At the very least your implication is that there was some consensus amont the leaders of the organization that they had to fool tax auditors into thinking they were spending their money on the preaching work while their main interest was to pump up activity that would allow them to invest in property that they could liquify at some future point for their personal benefit)
The Watchtower Corporation had to generate a kind of marvellous "machine" you could pour money into and make it disappear in the form of the preaching work.
CONSTANT EXPANSION was the key!
What was the purpose? POWER INVESTMENT!
REAL ESTATE!
The Watchtower was a corporate Donald Trump. It could grow dollars and not have to pay taxes on them. It could point to a worldwide work as evidence of money well spent (which wasn't really "spent" at all.) It could account for the cash flow by pointing to new projects in development and new acquisitions ostensibly for more and more publishing effort.
Further, every once and awhile a GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE would have to be run. This would be in the form of date setting.Date setting (determining when Armageddon was to arrive) was an Investment.
The publicity was golden. The threat level was heightened. The cash flow was extraordinary. The need for more investment property increased. The grip of absolute power was made real.
The downside was practically nil!!
Without having documented evidence to show that this was an "ACTUAL CONSPIRACY" you have merely suggested a "THEORETICAL CONSPIRACY".
But I think your main point needs to be discussed: On one hand they want if possible to SAVE EVERYONE yet on the other hand they throw so many obstacles in the way of their intended aim.
Why do they demand their members refuse blood transfusions under threat of being excommunicated? If they just changed that one teaching they could have 20 million members.
Why turn Christmas and Easter into a doctrinal divide? Couldn't they join in the telling of those wonderful stories with their own spin all the while encouraging moderation. Same with birthdays.
Couldn't they have allowed alternative service to be a conscious matter instead of letting it ruin the lives of some of its members?
Why not let some members just work 20 hours of overtime each month and contribute that money to a sattelite network that could beam the message 24/7 around the world. They could then have well trained volunteers at the ready to talk to people that respond?
They could have retained their message of impending doom for mankind and everlasting life on earth as a reward for the faithful.
There could now be 100 million members with even larger real estate holdings.
It's not a conspiracy it's conservative authoritarianism at its worst. It's a joke!
what if i asserted the following as true?
the watchtower bible and tract society has no interest in an effective evangelical program of conversion.. .
would that sound silly?
Terry,
Which Watchtower Society. Watchtower 1879 Watchtower 1919 Watchtower 1975 Watchtower 2013
Interesting scenario but it smacks of the same techniques, lack of solid evidence as any conspiracy theory.
Conspiracy theories look at the effect/results and assume that someone intended/actually planned the outcome and skillfully avoided pitfalls along the way.
You are looking at the accumulation of real estate wealth as the purpose. I see it more as an uninteded consequence. Wealth is a natural consequence of any organization that attracts a lot of devotees.
Look at the Soviet Union. Their intentions were NOT to produce 96 billionaires by the year 2013. Communism was NOT a ruse. But when it failed to produce the intended reults
something had to be done with the huge accumulation of resources. The resources were sold off and split up among a group of thieves.
If for some reason the Red Cross decided to just become a foundation that would manage a fund and provide grants they would suddenly have a lot of useless real estate to sell off. The board of directors would only need a few staff administrators to handle some paper work. The directors could give themselves huge salaries and their job would be to pick a few good applicants for grants. They could do this in the name of 'simplifying' or streamlining their activities. The organization didn't set out to do that but it is conceivable that on a large scale they could achieve some efficiencies by downsizing their many branches.
Joseph Smith probably just wanted access to more females and ended up starting the Mormon Church with vast holdings.
It has been said that Christians went forth into the world to DO GOOD and they did VERY WELL.
not trying to sound like a conpiracy nut...but just read this article:.
http://www.moneynews.com/archives/trump-aftershock-american-economy/2012/11/06/id/462985?promo_code=103fc-1.
is this just a lot of talk?
Babylon the Great is a political entity - The United States.
Rich.
Kindom over the Kings of the earth.
Glorifies herself in shameless luxury.
The traveling merchants weep and beat themselves in grief because there is no one to buy their full stock anymore.
In one hour such great riches are devastated.
All those having boats at sea became rich by reason of her costliness.
Her traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth.
ok, i've suddenly got heaps of time for stuff, i can cuddle with my husband on weekend mornings, and i don't have to spend money on meeting clothes!
i've got all these great clothes i hardly wear!
we can make pancakes on saturday mornings!
Emma,
Of 44 people commenting you are the only one who admits to doing volunteer work.
I must confess that I don't do any volunteer work but I continue to try and help friends, family and some casual acquaintances deal with religion induced problems.
I am sure others here also do volunteer work. They just don't feel like mentioning it. After all it's nice not to have to fill out report slips to answer to anyone about how much time they spend helping others.
And weekend sleeping is healthy. Even God rested, right?
ok, i've suddenly got heaps of time for stuff, i can cuddle with my husband on weekend mornings, and i don't have to spend money on meeting clothes!
i've got all these great clothes i hardly wear!
we can make pancakes on saturday mornings!
have any of you started to do volunteer work to REALLY help your community now that you have this new found liesure? Oopas that i before e thing.
LEISURE.
good morning!.
"warrior" and i had an 8-hour visit yesterday centering around many of the issues discussed by jwn members.
one point we talked about was jesus' instruction to make disciples, baptize them and observe all that he has commanded us.. does a christian, therefore, need conduct his life solely on what jesus literally said, i.e., teachings contained in the four gospels?.
12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.
Why don't JW's wash each others feet. Their excuse is that we don't walk with sandals on dusty roads anymore. But that misses the point of instituting a ritual. A ritual is intended to be repeated so that the lesson becomes more than just a nice thought blazing through the brain. A ritual is a memory device that involves our motor centers The ritual of washing someone's feet remains a humbling act. If you don't have to obey the command to wash each others feet you don't need to get baptized either.
The history of the beginning of Christianity is very sketchy. Why didn't Jesus write something "for Christ's sake". Or he could have at least had a personal scribe take notes.
i recently had a very long conversation with my mother, about what jehovah's witnesses teach and believe now.
while i could gleam ideas and thoughts, that kind of worked with the religion i once called home.
more often then not, i had to come to a extreme conclusion.
Village Girl:
Free to Be Me: Nailed it with the title of this thread "I was a Jehovah's Witness in a different religion" There wasn't really a need for another comment after the title. Everyone gets it.
Take notice AAWA! That's a theme worth developing. Right here on good ol' JWD
http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2013/04/19/autophagy-the-housekeeper-in-every-cell-that-fights-aging-2/.
the above relates to one my interests, fighting the aging process (i've seen it and decided not to participate).
the really cool thing is that it ties together nearly every successful anti-aging intervention into one biological process.
I eat a low calorie diet. I walk two miles a day. I do moderate weight exercises. I take some metformin. I never smoked. I hardly drink.
I pay close attention to mental hygene and stress to keep it down. I take a lot of OPC's. One day I'm going to wake up, take my vitamins, exercise, spend time with loved ones and die.
I haven't seen anything on the horizon that excites me about beating back the inevitable. I also haven't seen anyone who came back from the grave.
Who by worrying can add a cubit to their life.
i recently had a very long conversation with my mother, about what jehovah's witnesses teach and believe now.
while i could gleam ideas and thoughts, that kind of worked with the religion i once called home.
more often then not, i had to come to a extreme conclusion.
The watchtower never provided emergency food that had a long storage life. Everything had to be refrigerated after opening and would still expire shortly thereafter. The problem is all of their "food" (in due season?) has expired and is now unsafe for consumption.
Back in the 60's and 70's they still had the "generation" due date. That expired and they took it out of the old cans and put it in newer cans to make it look safe.
At this point I think all of religion is just Grown Up Santa Claus. But the false JW idea is worse than the false concept of dying and going to heaven. Most religions have the best of both worlds. You live your life and then you die and go to a better place. At least they had the dying part right. Knowing for a certainty that you are going to die in your 70's or 80's kept the idea in mind that if there is something you want to do you had better do it. But being told that there is a catastrophe awaiting that you must keep in mind so that you survive it, keeps you in a state where you fall victim to putting your life on hold. That would be fine if something REALLY happened but if you have been a JW for 63 years like I have (3rd generation), you burried a lot of sincere relatives that squandered their life and their children's economic security for nothing.
A lot of people that became JW's after they were adults don't appreciate the deep disappointment of those who were raised to believe that they and their parents and grandparents weren't going to die. At the deepest part of our brain is a paradigm of profound sadness that is worse than a hell where you could be tortured in the presence of other people who had the satisfaction of knowing they chose their path. Dante couldn't have thought up anything like it.
