Posts by Liberty

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

Hi katiekitten,

Certainly the US was not perfect, as I stated. Race based slavery, government corruption/favoritism, religious influence, and communalistic tradition all had a part in keeping the system from reaching its full potential. Just keep in mind however that, despite propaganda we are fed, capitalism did not invent slavery, exploitation, poverty and a number of other social ills blamed upon it. Communalism is the real source of the majority of social ills which its proponents want to blame on free market capitalism. If we study history it becomes clear that such ills all predate any periods of free market capitalism and are at their worse during periods which are firmly in the grips of a communalistic system.

I will freely admit I don't have all the data memorized to print out for you here. I read and study such things and grasp general ideas which I can remember and discuss. I know such data is available as I have seen it but can not immediantly provide it for you. If you are curious I strongly suggest you research it for yourself as I do not claim infalable knowledge. If I have time I may be able to put together some stats but I think most people would agree that Western countries that embraced capitalism are far better off than they were in 1200 AD and no stats are needed to see this.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

Sure SixofNine,

First off, never be fooled by anybody telling you that they have the perfect society or form of government. There is no such thing, and the term Utopia describing a perfect society literally means "no place". Libertarianism does not promise a perfect society, only the best possible given human limitations.

The Enlightenment period is when economics was first studied scientifically and it is no acident that free market capitalism was developing as the power of the Catholic Church was being challenged in Western Europe. Because of religion, tradition, and archaic governmental systems, given their authority by religion (King/Queen rule and nobility), the rise of free market capitalism and the resulting push for better government, more freedom, and equality was greatly hampered. Britain was a bastian of capitalism and this pushed the government there to become more egalitarian and reform minded. As english settlers came to the New World these ideas followed along with them. The United States in the 19th century (1800s) was the culmination of the libertarian ideal (though libertarianism was not yet defined) of innovation and growth based upon the Enlightenment freedoms formalized in our Constitution and applied to government. This resulted in the fastest technological and economic growth in history.

The US had many hold overs from religious communalism holding back our growth and freedom but the great innovations and industrial revolution of the 19th century is the best example of what can be done when libertarian ideas are allowed to fluorish. Great wealth was produced and an historical trend was broken where once 90% of the population were subsistance farmers being exploited by 10% church/state ruling class was transformed into a system dominated by a new middle class.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

Just to be clear Jourles, I am quite aware that the USA is a socialist state and I am seeking to ween us from the communalism which permiates this society. Let me also be clear that communalism existed long before Karl Marx. Classic Christianity is riddled with communalistic ideas. Hence why so many ex-JWs and other Fundi-Christians are so comfortable with the nanny state regulating our freedoms and foisting their false charity work upon us.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

Good questions Brinjen,

The short answer is that most of us have been raised in communalist cultures and brainwashing from childhood makes it difficult for us to clearly see what freedom is and it is hard to see how we are controlled and exploited by the state and how this impoverishes us.

Most of us live under the control of nanny states and are told we should appreciate it. We are told what drugs we can use and when, what our children will be taught in state run schools, what we must wear, what we can read, what pictures or movies we can view, when we must serve the state as soldiers, when-if-how we may drink or make alcohol, told we are not free to sell our sexual services or our own organs, told who we can or cannot sell our property too, who we can hire and fire for our businesses, told how much money we are allowed to make and keep, forced to give to charities we do not approve of through taxation, disallowed weapons for self defence unless we are under the orders of the nanny state and the list goes on and on.

Any time we make others responsible for our needs they will control you. Think of the regulations regarding the qualifications and requirments for recieving any form of government aid. That is why our parents controlled us as children and why we wanted to grow up and move out so we were not dependant upon them anymore and did not have to follow their rules. I don't need the government to tell me when or what I can buy and then use because I am an adult. Why do I need a perscription for antibiotic creams? I am tired of being treated like a child. Can't I decide for myself whether I should sell my kidney or not especially when I am encouraged to give it away by the same government that denies me the right to sell it?

When people are prevented from keeping the rewards of their hard work they quickly learn to work less. If inventions are stolen from the inventor they cease inventing. The entire culture is impoverished by these thefts of freedom.

Westernized countries like Australia are living now off of the huge surpluses created by free market capitalism and these profits support the communalist programs but as these surpluses shrink the nanny states become more and more demanding and this increases the slide into poverty and totalitarianism as individuals become less responsible for themselves.

I have done the research. The facts are clear. History is filled with communalistic cultures exploiting people and forcing them into poverty and technological stagnation.

54

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

by katiekitten in

jw
friends

i watched this film last night, and it made me really really grateful that we have free health care in the uk.

i know we complain about the state of the nhs, but the bottom line is if there is ever anything wrong with me my first thought will not be 'does my insurance cover this' or 'can i afford this'.. there was one part of the film where michael moore takes some people to cuba to get free health care and one woman picks up inhalers for 5 cents a piece, that are costing her $120 in the us.

she just breaks down and crys at the disparity of the cost.. it was also telling to see the insurance companies employ people specifically to try and find ways to deny claims or to void policies where a claim has been made.

Liberty

Socialism, Communism, or any form of communalism is never free because it will always cost you your freedom. When you are dependant on others for all of your needs you are controlled by these others who control your needs. The rejection of government imposed communalism is not about greed or selfishness it is about freedom and free people are happy and more productive people, hence free (noncommunalistic) cultures have always out done communalistic cultures due to increased productivity and creative invention/innovation.

Most of the problems in the U.S.A.'s health care systems are caused by socialist government intrusion into the health care business. The disasterous employer-based insurance system was primarily the fault of goverment imposed wage controls which led to health insurance being offered as a hiring incentive to get around wage controls. If Americans had continued to shop for and buy their own health insurance competition would have helped to keep prices down.

Also the insurance covered population is forced to pay all the extra costs incured because of the government imposed requirment that private hospitals must provide "free" care for anyone who stumbles into the emergency room for treatment. Most of these cases could easily be handled by private charity if the government had kept their noses out of it. These outrageous costs are passed on to the insurance companies who pass them along in higher premiums. I haven't even mentioned our ridiculous medicare/medicaid systems which provide subsidized health care for wealthy retirees who could easily afford to pay for their own health care.

Our draconian drug laws, corrupted court system, and the extreme regulation of the pharmacuitical industry is also responsible for our high costs. Drug users should take at least some responsibility for the risk that may be incurred when using drugs and assesing if those risks outweigh the benifits. For example, many diabetics could easily stop using drugs if they controlled their diets. If people were free to sell their own organs our organ transplant shortage problem would diminish.

In short, communalism and nanny states have never provided any thing free to anyone and they never will. Slavery and false charity are the hallmarks of such systems and these lead to stagnation and poverty for all.

48

Is the NWT really the most accurate translation of the Bible?

by godsgurl in

i have heard jw claim that the nwt is the most accurate translation of the bible and the persons who translated the bible were inspired by the holy spirit.

but if this is so then why was the nwt revised so many times?

did the holy spirit get it wrong the first time?

Liberty

Terry did a very good job of explaining why there will never be an "absolutely accurate" or "Best" Bible translation and I don't want to be redundant but I can't see how some of you don't get what Terry was saying.

If I am a brilliant medical doctor and I write a medical text book of my vital truths which will save lives and I am still alive I have a vested interest in and a responsability to making sure it is never mistranslated, used out of context, or falsly interpreted. Living authors do just that and are seen as the final authority on their works. God is believed by many to still exist and it is believed by many that He revealed His vital Truths in the Bible through the direct inspiration of its writers so He has a vested interest in making sure it is never mistranslated, used out of context, or falsly interpreted and yet even with His great powers of omnipotentcy and omniscience He has failed miserably on every count and His "vital" message is lost in confusion among 1000 different fighting sects and He does nothing to correct it.

If we are left with the confusing turd which is our modern Bible here is your first clue that either God doesn't care or, more likely, just doesn't exist and in either case there is obviously no "urgent life-saving information" there. Vital information would have been clarified and authorized by God, and not been left to a bunch of idiotic shaved apes to figure out for themselves.

29

Do Witnesses Care About Chronology Anymore?

by minimus in

jw
friends

let's say christ threw the devil out in 1914, so what?

does 1914 have any real signifance to a jehovah's witness anymore?

all i can see is that "this proves we're living in the last days of the last days".

Liberty

I think if you went back in time to around 1970 JWs cared alot more about chronology since so many of the Society's (really F. Franz's) self-made timed puzzle pieces were coming together so beautifully and matched the doomsaying brought on by the worldly press and pop culture due to the tumultious changes of the 1960's.

This began to change as 1975 came and went without even being lucky enough to be of any significance what so ever (at least, by sheer coincidence, 1914 had marked the start of a world war). As 1975 receeded ever further into non-history the enthusiasm of JWs for chronology began to wane slowly.

With the death of F. Franz and the significance of his beloved 1914 Generation being changed in 1995 the chronology issue was quietly deflated. Without F. Franz's "creative" but now time expired interpretations to give urgency to the JW community and with no replacement imaginative Bible "scholar" to step up to replace F. Franz the "End" becomes a more abstract event undefined and basically limitless.

14

This is what kept me from moving on a long time

by the_end_of_eternity in

pascal's bet.

so it follows that if you believe in god, you gain all, or it is neutral.

on the other then, when you do not believe in god, you loose everything or it is neutral.

Liberty

This Pascal's wager thing never made any sense to me anyway. If God is omniscient He would know you were just believing as a technicality, hedging your bet... so wouldn't you be worse off than an honest nonbeliever when it came to being judged?

I never understood how one can "make" themselves believe anything at all. If I don't believe in bigfoot I can't will myself into believing. You either believe or you don't. I can say anything but as far as I know I cannot will myself to really believe in something which I think isn't true because somewhere in my mind I will know it is not true. I came to a point in my life when I just no longer believed in God and try as I might I couldn't change this through an act of will power.

Even "worldly" governments punish people more harshly when you swear an alligiance or pledge loyalty and then by your actions you reveal that it was not heartfelt. For example an enemy soldier sworn to fight as your enemy is usually just captured and imprisoned while a soldier who betrays his own country is quickly executed or even tortured for his deception and disloyalty. At least you can respect your honest opposition's position...you know where they stand as opposed to a faker who is willing to say anything just to hedge their bets.

I'd honestly rather face God as my truthful self and just be wrong instead of facing Him as a liar who thought I could outsmart/trick Him.

21

I know I'm slow, but help me out on this new 144k thing-ie

by dawg in

ok, so the may 1st wt says that elders aren't to question anyone who partakes.

but many of you have posted that they are about to rule change about the 144k... haven't they already changed the dogma if elders can't question... doesn't that mean anyone can partake?

so what changes are going to occur that are more shocking then the generation of 1935 thing and whatnot?.

Liberty

I just did a simple rough calculation based on a percentage of the well accepted "anointed" in our congregation and it came out to 360,000 (6% multiplyed by 6,000,000 JWs) even if I'm way off it is clear that there is way too many to make any sense. If a percentage of the crazies who aren't viewed as real had just a small amount of real ones it would be off the scale when added to these other numbers and if the big "A" is postponed another 100 years it just gets even sillier. Since the big "A" is really never coming the numbers will be off the scale as time goes on.

Even if the percentage changed over time I did a 5% at only 4,000,000 and still came out with 200,000...just silly

21

I know I'm slow, but help me out on this new 144k thing-ie

by dawg in

ok, so the may 1st wt says that elders aren't to question anyone who partakes.

but many of you have posted that they are about to rule change about the 144k... haven't they already changed the dogma if elders can't question... doesn't that mean anyone can partake?

so what changes are going to occur that are more shocking then the generation of 1935 thing and whatnot?.

Liberty

It's not you dawg, how could any reasonable person keep up with these idiotic Watch Tower flashes of "New Light".

Complete and utter nonsense no matter how you slice it.

First off, there couldn't possibly be any room left now days even if we accepted that the 144,000 was a literal number and bought into the Society's definition. This number would have been filled years ago since Christianity has been around for over 2000 years and out of the millions of believers who were tortured, maimed, and killed for their beliefs I'm not sure why so many modern people who have never faced any persecution worse than a verbal rebuke in the door to door work would be chosen for such an elite club. Also, since so many died horrible and painful deaths and remained faithful to the end how could they need replacing? Even if ol' Jahoobie spaced out the choosing over time why would there be such a huge number chosen in the last 100 years?

As I understand it, the reason that the "earthly hope class (Great Crowd)" was "revealed" is because the Bible Students/JWs began to exceed 144,000 back in the mid 1930's so the Society wasn't even counting the 1st century christians (like original Apostles) and they still exceeeded the number with just 20th century members and had to invent a new class to accomadate them all. Thousands of JW defined "anointed" have already died. We had 5 or 6 of these ancient faithfuls in our small congregation (around 115 members) back in the 1960-70s so multiply that times all the congregations and you are already pushing the envelope not to mention the 8,000 plus still alive. Even if most of them needed replacing it doesn't say much for ol' Jahoobie's ability to read hearts. It just doesn't add up and is more proof that the whole foundation of JW cosmology is pure crap.