Posts by jejeval

23

As for the current Governing Body members, they are "fakes."

by possible-san in

well, .... although i have stated in this forum several times, and probably also other people stated about it, i would like to say again now.. as for the current governing body members, they are the "fake anointed.".

http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/notes-on-governing-body-of-jehovahs.html.

the greatest tragedy of today's jehovah's witnesses is that fakes/liars are guiding the organization.. people who have served jehovah for years should remember the "basic doctrine.".

jejeval

For Jehovah's Witnesses, in many cases, "priests" is not a literal meaning.

Priesthood office is literal:

Exodus 28:10 (NWT)

And with them you must clothe Aaron your brother and his sons with him, and you must anoint them and fill their hand with power and sanctify them, and they must act as priests to me.

Anointing is literal:

1 Samuel 16:13

Accordingly Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers. And the spirit of Jehovah began to be operative upon David from that day forward. Later Samuel rose and went his way to Ra´mah.

Probably, in your interpretation, "priests" must be Israelis.

Well during the ancient times God's chosen people were the Israelites. Exodus 19:6

And even the Jews no dealings with the Samaritans:

John 4:9 (KJV)

Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

But because of the grace of Christ:

Ephesians 3:6 (KJV)

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Well, a Protestant magazine in Japan says that the 144,000 means all Christians.

Yea means all Christians:

Galatians 3:8 (KJV)

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Now, C.T. Russel and all the previous and current Governing Bodies even those belongs to 144,000 JWs, who anointed them (1 Samuel 16:13)? Who ordained them (Jeremiah 1:5)? Who laid hands upon their heads (Acts 6:5-7; 1 Timothy 2:7)?

None of the above.

Although your comment is interesting, in that explanation, I think that it may be unconvincing for Jehovah's Witnesses, IMO.

Well pertaining to their beliefs they are consistent, but with regards to their predictions they are inconsistent.

Peace...

jejeval

23

As for the current Governing Body members, they are "fakes."

by possible-san in

well, .... although i have stated in this forum several times, and probably also other people stated about it, i would like to say again now.. as for the current governing body members, they are the "fake anointed.".

http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/notes-on-governing-body-of-jehovahs.html.

the greatest tragedy of today's jehovah's witnesses is that fakes/liars are guiding the organization.. people who have served jehovah for years should remember the "basic doctrine.".

jejeval

they are ALL fakes...

Isaiah 29:13 (King James Version)

13¶Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

JW Members were all brainwashed by their (Governing Bodies' - Watchtower) precepts!

Even the 144,000 chosen ones (from JWs anointed) are all fakes because none of them is a priesthood bearer as compared in the following references:

Exodus 19:6-7 (NWT)

6 And YOU yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the sons of Israel.”

7 So Moses came and called the older men of the people and set before them all these words that Jehovah had commanded him.

1 Peter 2:9 (NWT)

But YOU are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies” of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Revelation 1:6 (NWT)

and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (NWT)

and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

Acts 6:7 (NWT)

Consequently the word of God went on growing, and the number of the disciples kept multiplying in Jerusalem very much; and a great crowd of priests began to be obedient to the faith.

Me, myself have (stubborn) sister, nieces, nephew even my late parents belongs to JWs but still blinded by the precept of the Watchtower GB.

Jejeval

7

Life After Death?

by jejeval in

quoted from jw teaching life after death.

does something inside us, like a soul or a spirit, survive the death of the body?

consider how the first man, adam, came to have life.

jejeval

Quoted from JW teaching Life After Death

Does something inside us, like a soul or a spirit, survive the death of the body? Consider how the first man, Adam, came to have life. The Bible states: "Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life." (Genesis 2:7) Though breathing sustained his life, putting "the breath of life" into his nostrils involved much more than simply blowing air into his lungs. It meant that God put into Adam's lifeless body the spark of life—"the force of life," which is active in all earthly creatures. (Genesis 6:17; 7:22) The Bible refers to this animating force as "spirit." (James 2:26) That spirit can be compared to the electric current that activates a machine or an appliance and enables it to perform its function. Just as the current never takes on the features of the equipment it activates, the life-force does not take on any of the characteristics of the creatures it animates. It has no personality and no thinking ability.

That spirit can be compared to the electric current that activates a machine or an appliance and enables it to perform its function. Just as the current never takes on the features of the equipment it activates, the life-force does not take on any of the characteristics of the creatures it animates. It has no personality and no thinking ability. END QUOTE.

Psalms 104:4 (NWT)
Making his angels spirits,
His ministers a devouring fire.

Hebrews 1:14 (NWT)

Are they not all spirits for public service, sent forth to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?

What does the Bible teach about the soul? Adam "came to be a living soul," says Genesis 2:7. He did not receive a soul; he was a soul—a whole

person. The Scriptures speak of a soul's doing work, craving food, being kidnapped, experiencing sleeplessness, and so forth. (Leviticus 23:30;

Deuteronomy 12:20; 24:7; Psalm 119:28) Yes, man himself is a soul. When a person dies, that soul dies.—Ezekiel 18:4.

1 Kings 17:18-23 (NWT)

18 At this she said to E·li´jah: “What do I have to do with you, O man of the [true] God? You have come to me to bring my error to mind and to put my son to death.” 19 But he said to her: “Give me your son.” Then he took him from her bosom and carried him up to the roof chamber, where he was dwelling, and laid him upon his own couch. 20 And he began calling to Jehovah and saying: “O Jehovah my God, is it also upon the widow with whom I am residing as an alien that you must bring injury by putting her son to death?” 21 And he proceeded to stretch himself upon the child three times and call to Jehovah and say: “O Jehovah my God, please, cause the soul of this child to come back within him.” 22 Finally Jehovah listened to E·li´jah’s voice, so that the soul of the child came back within him and he came to life. 23 E·li´jah now took the child and brought him down from the roof chamber into the house and gave him to his mother; and E·li´jah then said: “See, your son is alive.”

again quote:

When a person dies, that soul dies.—Ezekiel 18:4.

Is the soul of a child died? If it were so, how come that a soul of a child which is dead and come again to child body which is dead also?

Let's take a look of the complete sentence of Ezekiel 18:4

Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.

The soul that is sinning

A soul that is sinning: means cut off from the presence of the Lord (because soul never die, only the flesh made from dust will be died or decayed but not the soul-1 Kings 17:17-22) and will be punished (the sinning soul) forever Revelation 20:10

And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Jejeval

43

The 144,000 chosen ones...I'm so confused

by SoManyQuestions in

jw
friends

my biggest question about jw is regarding the 144,000 from revelations.

how could john know exactly how many people were there?

how did he know that they were representing the 12 tribes of israel?

jejeval

Quoted from: Do All Good People Go to Heaven? JW teachings

However, Jesus will not rule alone. Hence, he promised his apostles a place in heaven. They were the first ones chosen to “rule as kings over the earth.”—Revelation 5:10. End quote.

Revelation 5:10 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

None of Jehovah's Witness is priesthood holder even from C.T. Russell up to this moment.

Now how they could claim that the 144,000 chosen ones some of them were from JWs?

Heb. 3:1 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess—Jesus.

Revelation 1:6 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

Acts 6:7 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

Consequently the word of God went on growing, and the number of the disciples kept multiplying in Jerusalem very much; and a great crowd of priests began to be obedient to the faith.

Exodus 19:6-7 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

6 And YOU yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the sons of Israel.”

7 So Moses came and called the older men of the people and set before them all these words that Jehovah had commanded him.

1 Peter 2:9 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

But YOU are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies” of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light.

So Jehovah's Witnesses organized by C.T. Russell doesn't have priesthood how do they claim now as TRUE Jehovah's Witnesses?

Jehovah's Witnesses should open their eyes and not to be stubborn!

Peace,

Jejeval

61

Do Some JWs Go to Heaven?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

do some jw's go to heaven?

i read both of ray franz's books, and i was left with the impression that in his opinion, being a christian and being a jw were not necessarily mutually exclusive.

some of my christian coworkers have also expressed similar thoughts, when they say that there are "christ's brothers" within many different denominations.

jejeval

Quoted from: Do All Good People Go to Heaven? JW teachings

However, Jesus will not rule alone. Hence, he promised his apostles a place in heaven. They were the first ones chosen to “rule as kings over the earth.”—Revelation 5:10. End quote.

Revelation 5:10 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

None of Jehovah's Witness is priesthood holder even from C.T. Russell up to this moment.

Now how they could claim that the 144,000 chosen ones some of them were from JWs?

Heb. 3:1 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess—Jesus.

Revelation 1:6 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

Acts 6:7 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

Consequently the word of God went on growing, and the number of the disciples kept multiplying in Jerusalem very much; and a great crowd of priests began to be obedient to the faith.

Exodus 19:6-7 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

6 And YOU yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the sons of Israel.”

7 So Moses came and called the older men of the people and set before them all these words that Jehovah had commanded him.

1 Peter 2:9 (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

But YOU are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies” of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light.

So Jehovah's Witnesses organized by C.T. Russell doesn't have priesthood how do they claim now as TRUE Jehovah's Witnesses?

Jejeval

12

New Book Argues That Jehovah is Jesus

by Cold Steel in

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jejeval

There's no doubt that Jehovah of the Old Testament is no other than Jesus Christ of the New Testament.

Are these Biblical verses fiction (Mr. Moshe?)

2 Samuel 23:3 (King James Version)

The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

1 Cor. 10:1-4 (King James Version)

1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud , and all passed through the sea ;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat ;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Exodus 3:14 (King James Version)

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 8:58 (King James Version)

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

43

The 144,000 chosen ones...I'm so confused

by SoManyQuestions in

jw
friends

my biggest question about jw is regarding the 144,000 from revelations.

how could john know exactly how many people were there?

how did he know that they were representing the 12 tribes of israel?

jejeval

How did he know that they were representing the 12 tribes of Israel?

John was not told they 'represented' the 12 tribes, he was told they ARE the 12 tribes.

What is the difference between 'represent the 12 tribes' and 'they are the 12 tribes'?

Ref.: Revelation 7:4-8

4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5 Out of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed;
out of the tribe of Reu´ben twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand;

6 out of the tribe of Ash´er twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Naph´ta·li twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Ma·nas´seh twelve thousand;

7 out of the tribe of Sim´e·on twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Le´vi twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Is´sa·char twelve thousand;

8 out of the tribe of Zeb´u·lun twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.

***************************

tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed;
tribe of Reu´ben twelve thousand; (are these numbers complete?)

tribe of Gad twelve thousand; (are these numbers complete?)

Ash´er twelve thousand; (are these numbers complete?)
Naph´ta·li twelve thousand; (are these numbers complete?)
tribe of Ma·nas´seh twelve thousand; (are these numbers complete?)

tribe of Sim´e·on twelve thousand; (are these numbers complete?)
tribe of Le´vi twelve thousand; (are these numbers complete?)
tribe of Is´sa·char twelve thousand; (are these numbers complete?)

tribe of Zeb´u·lun twelve thousand; (are these numbers complete?)
tribe of Joseph twelve thousand; (are these numbers complete?)
tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.

Look at the verses 5 & 8 the word 'sealed' in which belong to two tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The other ten tribes were 'LOST TRIBES'.

Now since John the Revelator saw the two tribes were already sealed, and the other ten tribes were 'LOST TRIBES' since the early days how JW calculated one hundred forty four thousand?

Why the tribe of Dan went out of the picture and Ma·nas´seh instead????

JW answer please.

Thanks

jejeval

12

New Book Argues That Jehovah is Jesus

by Cold Steel in

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jejeval

New Book Urges That Jehovah Is Jesus (Correct)

Jehovah is: I AM THAT I AM (Jesus is: I Am) Ex. 3:14; John 8:58 KJV

Jehovah is: First and Last (Jesus is: First and Last) Isaiah 41:4; 44:6; 48:12, Rev. 1:11, 17; 22:13

Please compare again Exodus 3:14; John 8:56-58 of the King James Version against New World Translation of the Holy Scripture

King James Version (KJV) Exodus 3:14

Quote

“And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

King James Version (KJV) John 8:56-58

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Here in King James Version there are lots of proofs that Jehovah is no other than Jesus Christ. I Am was used in Exodus 3:14 while New World Translation of the Holy Scripture altered the word “I Am” in which quoted in John 8:58 of KJV

New World Translation of the Holy Scripture of Exodus 3:14

Quote

At this God said to Moses: “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE .” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU .’” (New World Translation of the Holy Scripture)

New World Translation of the Holy Scripture of John 8:56-58

Quote

56 Abraham YOUR father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” 57 Therefore the Jews said to him: “You are not yet fifty years old, and still you have seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU , Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”End quote.

Jehovah was talking to Abraham and even to Moses like: I Am that I Am. Jesus also referred Himself as “am he or I Am” John 4:26; 8:58 KJV

Jehovah is the first and the last see Isaiah 41:4; 44:6; 48:12

Jesus is the first and the last (Alpha & Omega) see Revelations 1:11, 17; 22:13

There’s no doubt that Jehovah of the Old Testament is no other than Jesus Christ of the New Testament.

12

New Book Argues That Jehovah is Jesus

by Cold Steel in

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jejeval

I agree!

Yea Jehovah is no other than Jesus Christ if you use King James Version. But if you use New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures in which JW is using then you might convince that Jehovah and Jesus Christ are two separate beings.

See the difference between King James Version and New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures :

1 Cor. 10:1-4 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

1 Now I do not want YOU to be ignorant, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea

2 and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea;

3 and all ate the same spiritual food

4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ.

1 Cor. 10:1-4 (King James Version)

1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud , and all passed through the sea ;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat ;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (End quote).

We know that the Jehovah is the God of Israel.

2 Samuel 22:32

For who is God, save the Lord ? and who is a rock, save our God?

So in 1 Cor. 10:4 (quote) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (see Exodus 14:15-16; 21-22)