Is there evidence about Jaracz?

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

read some reply's about jaracz being a child abuser.. is there any evidence about it?.

g..

fulltimestudent

Ummm! The very first PT/WTS I ever attended featured TJ as the speaker. I had taken a leaflet from a JW doing streetwork, because I wanted to go to a meeting. Why? Because Australia had just joined the Korean war and was calling up young guys to go and fight. I was a pacifist and was determined not to join the army. I'd heard the the JW's would not join the army either, so that was my 'ulterior motive' in attending that meeting. I wanted to know how to escape the call-up.

I was also late, as I'd been sailing that morning and having my usual great time in that pastime and cut myself short of time

And, of course, as you'd expect, in a small congregation, lots of older people, and not much new interest (converts) I was introduced to TJ. I didn't think he was impressed with me, I was wearing shorts and a brightly colored sports shirt and a close buzz haircut. But as I later found out Jaracz suffered from migraines which may have gotten worse when he gave a talk, and occasionally the headaches could incapacitate him. That may have made him appear 'cold' in his human relationships.

He was very close to a family I once knew well, and sometimes met him there.

My second close encounter, was through my group study conductor. He was in Bethel (when it was located in Strathfield) and often told me how helpful and loving the brothers were in Bethel, particularly TJ. Now I had a young man's problem called compulsive masturbation, and it worried the hell out of my conscience. I could hardly tell anyone about it, it was so difficult to discuss sex in those far off days (tried to talk to a Dr once, and he yelled at me and told me to get out of his office and never come back). I couldn't tell my GSC, so I asked if TJ would talk to someone like me? He said yes, and arranged a meeting with TJ (please remember that there were only about 1000 JWs in all of Sydney then). But in front of TJ I was just as unable to bring the topic up and sat there red-faced with embarrassment. After about 30 minutes, Jaracz gave up on me and told me to talk to my Congregation servant in future.

None of my experiences are evidence for or against the accusations against Jaracz. I can only say that eventually in that small hothouse of close associations any wrongdoing eventually became known, and in all the years I wasted in YHWH's new world society I never heard of such accusations against the man.

PS. I do not recall Lloyd Barry being Branch servant after Jaracz, I think that Brooklyn assigned Doug.Held to Australia after Jaracz. But, it was all a long time ago and my memory may be as faded as I am.

7

The First Flood Story - How Much Do You Know About It?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

you may have heard that before the genesis document (of the bible) was written there was a flood story circulating in west asia.. if your short of time, here's a 5 minute video by irving finkel discussing a flood story document written in cuneiform.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9us31k.

of course, the christian argument may be that the bible had the original (truthful) version and the cuneiform story came later.

but that's so difficult to prove.

fulltimestudent

Yup, I think that's the way we got the bible.

7

The First Flood Story - How Much Do You Know About It?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

you may have heard that before the genesis document (of the bible) was written there was a flood story circulating in west asia.. if your short of time, here's a 5 minute video by irving finkel discussing a flood story document written in cuneiform.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9us31k.

of course, the christian argument may be that the bible had the original (truthful) version and the cuneiform story came later.

but that's so difficult to prove.

fulltimestudent

Above is a section of the tablet Irving discusses.

A claim made in the Sumerian King List says: In ancient Mesopotamia, the Sumerian King List reads

After kingship came down from heaven .... the kingship was taken to Shuruppak. In Shuruppak, Ubara-Tutu became king; he ruled for 5 sars and 1 ner. In 5 cities 8 kings; they ruled for 241,200 years. Then the flood swept over.

So you can note the claim of the extraordinary long lives led by pre-flood worthies.

If you're interested in all the the legends of destructive floods, Wikipedia may be a good general view of these stories.

It says: "The Mesopotamian flood stories concern the epics of Ziusudra, Gilgamesh, and Atrahasis. The Sumerian King List relies on the flood motif to divide its history into preflood (antediluvian) and postflood periods. The preflood kings had enormous lifespans, whereas postflood lifespans were much reduced. The Sumerian flood myth found in the Deluge tablet was the epic of Ziusudra, who heard the gods' plan to destroy humanity, in response to which he constructed a vessel that delivered him from great waters.[2] In the Atrahasis version, the flood is a river flood.[3]
In the Genesis mythology of the Hebrew Bible, Yahweh decides to flood the earth because of the depth of the sinful state of mankind. Righteous Noah is given instructions to build an ark. When the ark is completed, Noah, his family, and representatives of all the animals of the earth are called upon to enter the ark. When the destructive flood begins, all life outside of the ark perishes. After the waters recede, all those aboard the ark disembark and have Yahweh's promise that he will never judge the earth with a flood again. He causes a rainbow to form as the sign of this promise.[4]
In the 19th century, Assyriologist George Smith translated the Babylonian account of a great flood. Further discoveries produced several versions of the Mesopotamian flood myth, with the account closest to that in Genesis found in a 700 BC Babylonian copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh.[5]:20 In this work, the hero Gilgameshmeets the immortal man Utnapishtim, and the latter describes how the god Ea instructed him to build a huge vessel in anticipation of a deity-created flood that would destroy the world. The vessel would save Utnapishtim, his family, his friends, and the animals.[6]
In Hindu mythology, texts such as the Satapatha Brahmana and the Puranas contain the story of a great flood,[7] wherein the Matsya Avatar of Vishnu warns the first man, Manu, of the impending flood, and also advises him to build a giant boat.[8][9][10]
In Plato's Timaeus, Timaeus says that because the Bronze race of Humans had been making wars constantly Zeus was angered and decided to punish humanity by a flood. Prometheus the Titan knew of this and told the secret to Deucalion, advising him to build an ark in order to be saved. After nine nights and days, the water started receding and the ark was landed at Mount Parnassus.[11]"

In the example of Plato's story we may be noting that his version of what he had heard (or, read) was adapted to suit Greek religion and history.

Is that what the author of the Genesis document also did?

7

The First Flood Story - How Much Do You Know About It?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

you may have heard that before the genesis document (of the bible) was written there was a flood story circulating in west asia.. if your short of time, here's a 5 minute video by irving finkel discussing a flood story document written in cuneiform.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9us31k.

of course, the christian argument may be that the bible had the original (truthful) version and the cuneiform story came later.

but that's so difficult to prove.

fulltimestudent

However, if you have a deeper interest in the topic, you may also be interested in Finkel's hour long lecture on the topic as given to The Oriental Institute:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_fkpZSnz2I

7

The First Flood Story - How Much Do You Know About It?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

you may have heard that before the genesis document (of the bible) was written there was a flood story circulating in west asia.. if your short of time, here's a 5 minute video by irving finkel discussing a flood story document written in cuneiform.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9us31k.

of course, the christian argument may be that the bible had the original (truthful) version and the cuneiform story came later.

but that's so difficult to prove.

fulltimestudent

You may have heard that before the Genesis document (of the bible) was written there was a flood story circulating in West Asia.

If your short of time, here's a 5 minute video by Irving Finkel discussing a Flood story document written in cuneiform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9US31k

Of course, the Christian argument may be that the Bible had the original (truthful) version and the cuneiform story came later.

But that's so difficult to prove. We can locate the approximate time that the cuneiform version was written, but we have no ancient versions of the Genesis document that go back to that time. All the extant versions are much later.

And, if we accept the JW/WTS perspective on Genesis, i.e. that Moses wrote it based on earlier documents, we need to ask what kind of documents were they and who wrote them? The WT publication, 'Aid to Bible Understanding,' claim's Moses was born about 1593 BCE.

1

BIG,Dead Place

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

big, dead place is a name a sharp-witted aussie gave to the antarctic base at mcmurdo sound, managed by uncomprehending american bureaucrats located in faraway nebraska.. you can read the origins of the name on the australian abc's web-site today:.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-30/big-dead-place-the-wikileaks-of-antarctica/9666244.

but as i read that story, i thought what a wonderfully descriptive name for nathan knorr's vision of the 'new world society' - the name of jw.com's predeccessor, and the name by which i knew the organisation of the christian witlesses of yhwh when i first got conned into thinking that i had found not only the truth, but the solution to the starving billions of this world and all the other shit that worries humankind.. but i will spare your the re-run of my wasted life in later versions of big, dead place.

fulltimestudent

BIG, Dead Place is a name a sharp-witted Aussie gave to the Antarctic base at McMurdo Sound, managed by uncomprehending American bureaucrats located in faraway Nebraska.

You can read the origins of the name on the Australian ABC's web-site today:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-30/big-dead-place-the-wikileaks-of-antarctica/9666244

But as I read that story, I thought what a wonderfully descriptive name for Nathan Knorr's vision of the 'New World Society' - the name of JW.com's predeccessor, and the name by which I knew the organisation of the Christian Witlesses of YHWH when I first got conned into thinking that I had found not only the truth, but the solution to the starving billions of this world and all the other shit that worries humankind.

But I will spare your the re-run of my wasted life in later versions of BIG, Dead Place.

I just wanted to ask whether anyone else thinks that's a good name for YHWH's chosen few?

5

Are the Christian Greek Scriptures (the NT) Jewish or Gentile?

by fulltimestudent in

today's oxford university press blog has a brief discussion by biblical scholar, ann conway-jones**, examining how we may 'see' the nt?.

"the new testament: jewish of gentile.".

conway-jones acknowledges the work of jewish scholars (for example, geza vermes) in correcting some mistaken historical christian viewpoints.

fulltimestudent

Jewish concept of Messiah as a global CONQUEROR ‘with Jehovah’s hand being constantly supporting him in His sworn integrity’ (Isaiah 42:7).

Sure, so we are still waiting, waiting, waiting, for this Jewish hero to be the global conqueror and restorer of the the kingdom of god.

It's interesting to consider just who the author of Isaiah may have thought he was writing about, and why he considered it necessary?

We are on surer ground when we get to Daniel's prediction of a global conqueror. Written after the conquests of Alexander the Great, restless native peoples predicted the rise of a 'native' hero who would restore a local kingdom. You can find local demotic literature in Ptolemaic Egypt making similar predictions.

None of them were fulfilled in any meaningful way. That's why the tiny christian sect resorted to myth and magic with the death of Jesus, who briefly thought he was that hero.

2

Chinese Scientists claim that the mountain that formed NK's Nuclear test site has collapsed.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

todays's 'south china morning post,' has the headline:.

north korea’s nuclear test site has collapsed ... and that may be why kim jong-un suspended tests.

the mountain’s collapse after a fifth blast last fall has led to the creation of a massive ‘chimney’ that could leak radioactive fallout into the air, researchers have found.. full report at: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2143171/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-and-may-be-why-kim-jong-un?utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20180426&utm_campaign=scmp_today&aid=190131336&sc_src=email_2221295&sc_llid=54531&sc_lid=151076047&sc_uid=z7rq3jwhwq&utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email.

fulltimestudent

Irrespective of the motives of any of the major players in the Korean drama, today was rather unique as Kim Jong-un crossed the border (in the into South Korea for talks with Moon Jae-in, President of South Korea. (President Moon stepped onto the NK side for a brief moment).

The BBC reports (video):

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43914208

2

Chinese Scientists claim that the mountain that formed NK's Nuclear test site has collapsed.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

todays's 'south china morning post,' has the headline:.

north korea’s nuclear test site has collapsed ... and that may be why kim jong-un suspended tests.

the mountain’s collapse after a fifth blast last fall has led to the creation of a massive ‘chimney’ that could leak radioactive fallout into the air, researchers have found.. full report at: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2143171/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-and-may-be-why-kim-jong-un?utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20180426&utm_campaign=scmp_today&aid=190131336&sc_src=email_2221295&sc_llid=54531&sc_lid=151076047&sc_uid=z7rq3jwhwq&utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email.

fulltimestudent

Todays's 'South China Morning Post,' has the Headline:

North Korea’s nuclear test site has collapsed ... and that may be why Kim Jong-un suspended tests

The mountain’s collapse after a fifth blast last fall has led to the creation of a massive ‘chimney’ that could leak radioactive fallout into the air, researchers have found.

Full report at: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2143171/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-and-may-be-why-kim-jong-un?utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20180426&utm_campaign=scmp_today&aid=190131336&sc_src=email_2221295&sc_llid=54531&sc_lid=151076047&sc_uid=z7Rq3JwHwQ&utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email

I guess its a reasonable question that the SCMP then asks, whether that's the reason for Kim Jong-un's sudden reversal of policy?

The SCMP also points out that the 'chimney' formed by the mountain's collapse may be releasing radioactive substances into the air.

Not a very desirable thing to happen.

5

Are the Christian Greek Scriptures (the NT) Jewish or Gentile?

by fulltimestudent in

today's oxford university press blog has a brief discussion by biblical scholar, ann conway-jones**, examining how we may 'see' the nt?.

"the new testament: jewish of gentile.".

conway-jones acknowledges the work of jewish scholars (for example, geza vermes) in correcting some mistaken historical christian viewpoints.

fulltimestudent

Today's Oxford University Press blog has a brief discussion by biblical scholar, Ann Conway-Jones**, examining how we may 'see' the NT?

"The New Testament: Jewish of Gentile."

Conway-Jones acknowledges the work of Jewish scholars (for example, Geza Vermes) in correcting some mistaken historical christian viewpoints.

Quote: "In the first century, it was impossible to distinguish between what was “Jewish” and what was “Christian.” “Messiah” started as a Jewish concept, and the followers of Jesus interpreted his life, death, and resurrection within the framework provided by the Jewish scriptures."

and

"The theology of the New Testament, even its Christology, is Jewish. It represents one offshoot of the tremendous variety within Second Temple Judaism. But a complex relationship developed between the New Testament’s theology and its sociology. It turned out that its ideas had more traction among Gentiles than Jews. Paul was already aware of the ironies–hence his convoluted, horticulturally suspect, image of the wild olive shoot grafted into the cultivated olive tree (Romans 11:17-24)."

But notes,

Quote: "In the New Testament, we see the inception of the struggle between Jews and Christians over the same God. What was to be the future of the God of Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, and Jeremiah? Who knew best how to interpret the scriptures? The New Testament read Sunday by Sunday in churches is not a simple record of the Jewish Jesus and the Jewish Paul. It witnesses to the beginnings of Christian identity formation–a convoluted process whereby Jewish concepts were appropriated by outsiders. The relationship between Judaism and Christianity was skewed from the start, and the complications are still with us today."

If that discussion interests you, you can find the full article at:

https://blog.oup.com/2018/04/new-testament-jewish-gentile/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=oupblog

**Ann Conway-Jones is an Honorary Research Fellow at the University of Birmingham and The Queen’s Foundation for Ecumenical Theological Education. She is the author of Gregory of Nyssa’s Tabernacle Imagery in its Jewish and Christian Contexts.

fulltimestudent

Posts by fulltimestudent

North Korea’s nuclear test site has collapsed ... and that may be why Kim Jong-un suspended tests