Posts by fulltimestudent

36

"Circumcision is a sign to set you apart from the people of the nations"

by stuckinarut2 in

we know that the hebrew scriptures, or old testament states that the practice of circumcision (of males) was supposed to be yet another sign that set the jews apart from the "people of the nations".

but apart from so many odd things, how dumb is this?.

i mean, how did someone know if a male was circumcised or not??

fulltimestudent

David_Jay: "It seems that the Jews and Greeks knew virtually nothing of one another until the Babylonian exile ended, the Hebrews being so insignificant as we were then."

David, I seriously doubt that!

I'm sure you appreciate that 'Greek' people lived on both sides of the Aegean sea. So on the Aegean coast of Asia minor Greek culture prevailed. And, in cities like Miletus, as elites developed, who had sufficient leisure time to think and discuss ideas, we find the first of the so-called Pre-Socratic Greek thinkers like Thales (c.624 – c. 546 BCE). So historians ask, Why Miletus? and the usual answer is that Miletus was on a trade route that linked that city (and others in Asia Minor) with older cultures of Babylon, Egypt, Phoenicia and so on.

Its considered axiomatic that 'ideas travel with trade,' and it so happens that the ancient Palestine area was on both a land and sea trade route that linked Asia Minor to Egypt, (And, as I have posted extensively before, long before that time, the Egyptian Empire controlled the area that encompasses the greater Palestinian area). I think it quite likely that the Israelite/Jews were, as you said, "insignificant,*' but that doesn't mean that the Israelite/Jews did not also pick up ideas of the world as traders passed through the area. For example, I once listened to Professor Boyo Ockinga compare the first chapter of Genesis to Egyptian ideas of creation. I left the lecture convinced that Genesis had been written by someone completely familiar with Egyptian creation concepts.

Then there is the Book of Job, Jewish tradition attributes it to Moses, but today's scholarship see it as being produced much later between the 7th and 4th centuries BCE. And its seen as comparable to "... several texts from ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt (that) offer parallels to Job, and while it is impossible to tell whether the author of Job was influenced by any of them, their existence suggests that the author was the recipient of a long tradition of reflection on the existence of inexplicable suffering.

May I offer one more example. Where do you think the author of Daniel 2 (the dream image) got his imagery of the statue being formed from different metals, metals that became inferior to the previous one (i.e. There's a head of gold - representing Nebuchadnezzar- then breast and arms of silver and so on. (and for the benefit of bible believers, the third on is said to "rule over the whole earth." Surely, a real god in heaven would not say that).

Surely, if you have ever read Hesiod's (usually considered to have lived between 750 and 650 BCE) "Works and Days." you would immediately see the similarity with his five ages of Humanity.**

And, even if a particular Jewish document (i.e.OT) could be demonstrated as being produced at an early date (i.e. by a contemporary writer/observer of certain events) that would not mean that our copies (i.e. as we know the document) had not been redacted at another point in time. Why? Because we there are not many copies/extracts that reach back in time. And we now know that in the Dead Sea Scrolls, modified documents were sometimes being written.

Footnote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David - that entry notes that some scholarship considers Chronicles and Ruth to be fourth century documents

* My personal view is that Judaism (Jewish thought) only became important, and studied, because it was linked to Christian tradition and mythology. If Christianity had not become important in the western world, then Judaism would be even less important than ancient Babylonian thought.

** Hesiod divides human history into five distinct eras.The initial Age of Gold. then the Age of Silver, Then the Age of Bronze, The The Age of Heroes and finally the Age of Iron.

32

A Korean Tragedy

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

the modern history is full of deep, dark tragedies.

and, my intention, as i sat down to write of those tragedies for a fb page i look after for a macquarie university student society, was to tell the story of these very dark contemporary events.

but east asia history is complex and i think its helpful to try to have an overview of that history to understand what has happened in the recent past.

fulltimestudent

August 15, 1945, the day that WW2 ended was met with jubilation throughout Korea. All Koreans must have thought that now, at last, they could shape their own destiny. But the interaction of great powers meant that once again, national aspirations would be thwarted.

But before we can see that development, we have to understand events in the last few weeks of the war. Events that had a profound influence on Korea.

In the various meetings of the Allies in that war, the leaders of the USA (Roosevelt) and the UK (Churchill) requested the USSR (Stalin) to declare war on Japan and so open land war in Eastern Asia. Stalin agreed to do so, but only once the Russians had pushed the Germans out of Russia, Stalin kept that promise and once the European war ended, the Russians started a huge arms build up in Siberia.

Pause here and think of Kim Il Sung, now a Russian Army Officer, but once part of a guerilla war against the Japanese. During those years, he and his group would often have gone hungry and always without enough arms to do more than make sporadic raids on Japanese posts. I suggest that as he saw train load after trainload of tanks and guns arrive from western Russia, that sight would have made a deep impression on him. He likely concluded (because he could not see the equivalent USA/UK response) that a centralised state was the way to go.

On August 9, 1945, the Russians declared war and swept into Japanese occupied Manchuria in a classic two pronged pincer movement. A third force commenced moving from Soviet Sakhalin into Japanese Sakhalin and southward, only stopping at the narrow strait facing Hokkaido. Other Soviet forces moved through the Kurile Islands.

Within 2 weeks the soviet forces were in Korea.

If you wonder how that final thrust of the war was executed, watch this version of events made for Russian Television.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjygZML_X-o

Or, if you feel you cannot trust a Russian account, you could reads this account by and American Army officer, LTC David Glantz:

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/download/csipubs/LP7_AugustStormTheSoviet1945StrategicOffensiveInManchuria.pdf

36

"Circumcision is a sign to set you apart from the people of the nations"

by stuckinarut2 in

we know that the hebrew scriptures, or old testament states that the practice of circumcision (of males) was supposed to be yet another sign that set the jews apart from the "people of the nations".

but apart from so many odd things, how dumb is this?.

i mean, how did someone know if a male was circumcised or not??

fulltimestudent

Hi stuckinarut2, do you think that cultural attitudes may change over the centuries?

Maybe what we read about in Mark 14:51,52(NIV) was not an unusual occurrence in the Mediterranean culture of 2000 years ago.

Those verses read:

"51 A young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment, was following Jesus. When they seized him, 52 he fled naked, leaving his garment behind."

My point simply is, that while we would be embarrassed to be seen naked in public, public nudity was not a thing to be embarrassed about in those times. This was reflected in the many statues that have survived from Greek and Roman times. Like this one:

Known as "the dying Gaul", it is a sample of the art of that era. Do a search on the web, and you'll find many more.

In the ancient games of the era, the athletes competed naked, and even in the gymnasiums that the sons of the elites of the time attended, the young men would compete naked.

Its interesting to read in Maccabees of the Hellenisation of the Jews, after Alexander the Great conquered Palestine: (See 1 Maccabees ch. 1)

"10 The wicked ruler Antiochus Epiphanes, son of King Antiochus the Third of Syria, was a descendant of one of Alexander's generals. Antiochus Epiphanes had been a hostage in Rome before he became king of Syria in the year 137.[a]11 At that time there appeared in the land of Israel a group of traitorous Jews who had no regard for the Law and who had a bad influence on many of our people. They said,
Let's come to terms with the Gentiles, for our refusal to associate with them has brought us nothing but trouble. 12 This proposal appealed to many people, 13 and some of them became so enthusiastic about it that they went to the king and received from him permission to follow Gentile customs. 14 They built in Jerusalem a stadium like those in the Greek cities. 15 They had surgery performed to hide their circumcision, abandoned the holy covenant, started associating with[b] Gentiles, and did all sorts of other evil things."

So with many Greek colonies established in Palestine, many Jews wanted to "get with it" and compete in games like other people were doing. Of course, they competed naked, and this led to a cultural problem.

For Greeks it was OK to be seen naked, but they thought it shameful and suggestive to expose the glans (the head or tip) of the penis. In fact a greek athlete would pull his foreskin down and tie a ribbon around it to make sure that his foreskin would not retract during his gym or athletic practise.

If we saw that, we'd think it very strange, but that's the cultural difference. They would think that we were weird. In fact the Greeks thought the Jews were weird for exposing the glans of their penises.

Anyway the Jews that Maccabees speaks of, were embarrassed because their foreskins had been removed, and they tried it says, to have, "surgery performed to hide their circumcision."

(And no, I don't know for sure what they actually did). But we should never assume that any other group of people think the way we may think.

32

A Korean Tragedy

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

the modern history is full of deep, dark tragedies.

and, my intention, as i sat down to write of those tragedies for a fb page i look after for a macquarie university student society, was to tell the story of these very dark contemporary events.

but east asia history is complex and i think its helpful to try to have an overview of that history to understand what has happened in the recent past.

fulltimestudent

A Korean Tragedy.

The Back Story: 4. Russia, Japan and Korea

Japan Colonises Korea.

This was a complicated and difficult time. Yes, Korea (particularly the North) became industrialised, but it was also a time of a great and brutal repression. I've had to leave a lot out, otherwise I'd still be reading and writing.

Japan Colonises Korea with consequences.

Japan and Gt. Britain had signed an alliance in 1902, which recognized their respective ‘interests.’ For Britain it was China, and for Japan (primarily) Korea. After the defeat of Russia and an agreement with the USA, Japan was in a position to move quickly to take control of Korea.

This was a complicated and difficult time. Yes, Korea (particularly the North) became industrialised, but it was also a time of a great and brutal repression. I've had to leave a lot out, otherwise I'd still be reading and writing.

A cartoon from that period.Britain and Japan shake hands

On November 17, 1905 Ito Hirobumi, with a Japanese military escort entered the royal palace, threatened the King (Kojong) and his ministers and demanded that they accept a draft treaty the Japanese had prepared. The Koreans refused. Japanese soldiers arrested the PM, others went to the Foreign Ministry Office and returned with the official Korean seal and affixed it to.t the draft treat.

That Treaty transferred authority for all Korean foreign relations to the Japanese foreign office. Gradually all Korean administrative departments were brought under Japanese control.

But Koreans did attempt resistance in various ways, some even committing suicide as a form of protest. “Righteous armies,” began armed resistance. But ultimately, the Japanese won, by 1910 they had killed over 17,600 insurgents. There were other forms of protest. Various organisations were formed with the goal of promoting or preserving Korean culture, however any movement that was deemed by the Japanese Colonial government to be too successful was usually closed down. A network of informers were employed by the police to watch for dangerous trends. Japanese migration was encouraged and Japanese officials given preference for promotion. The Colonial government built hundreds of new schools, but taught Japanese language as the “national language.” Korean could only be taught as a second language. It became difficult for Koreans to progress past primary school. (Only 5% of Korean students managed to gain education to a higher level). Land-use surveys were used to identify the most valuable land which was often made available to Japanese investors. A rapid industrialization program was often co-ordinated with Japanese industry in Manchuria.

World War 1, primarily a European war, fought over control of global resources caused widespread disillusionment among Asian nationalists. Foolish decisions by the victors, (i.e. Britain and France) such as taking control of Syria, Iraq and Iran and amazingly in China, by their attempt to reward Japan for Japan's wartime support, by giving Shandong Province to Japan, caused so many Asian patriots to look elsewhere for their freedom. So in China, Sun Yatsen asked the Comintern to advise him leading to a tense alliance with the small Chinese Communist Party. Future leaders in Indonesia, - (Soekarno), Vietnam - (Ho Chi Minh), Myanmar – Aung San) all turned to Communist thought and/or support in their struggles to thrown off Imperialist enslavement. That occurred in Korea also, which shared a border with the new USSR, to those patriots socialism offered an alternative path for those who sought freedom from the Imperialist powers.

In 1918 a Korean Socialist Party was founded. And in the USSR, a Korean Communist division was founded. Of course, some hopes were dashed when separate groups fought each other. The Japanese government in Korea was concerned with these groups and often arrested members of such groups.

In the 1930s the Japanese succeeded in gaining control of all of Manchuria, and campaigned in Korea for active, patriotic support. Many Koreans were encouraged to move into Manchuria, and formed the basis for the Chinese-Koreans of today, Others were moved to Japan’s home islands and their descendants still live in Japan (and interestingly, strongly support North Korea). By 1944 more than 4 million Koreans may have been living and working outside Korea,

In spite of Japanese repression, there were still some armed groups engaged in a guerilla war with the Japanese. Kim Il-Sung is thought to have led one of those groups. Life would have been difficult for these groups. Japanese harassment never stopped, they would always have been on the run, often with little food or weapons. It was in those circumstances that Kim Il Sung developed his Juche philosophy that today guides the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. Eventually, the Japanese were able to repress most of the armed guerilla groups. Some like Kim Il Sung took refuge in Soviet Siberia. Kim was given a commission in the Russian Army, a very strong force guarding against a Japanese invasion of Russian territory. Its noteworthy that in two armed incursions by the Japanese Kwantung Army into Soviet territory, the Russian army repelled them.

Next. Korea is divided.

5

China Opens World's First Quantum Communications Line

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

the people's daily reports the opening of the world's first, totally secure, quantum communications line.

the line connects shanghai to beijing and some points in between.. .

guests attend the opening ceremony of the jing-hu, or beijing-shanghai,trunk line, in beijing, capital of china, sept. 29, 2017. .

fulltimestudent

zeb: but what does it do..?

Simply, the claim is that communications on it can not be hacked or intercepted. That's why there's been so much research effort focused on quantum computing and communications

Supposedly, all present communications can be overheard if you have the right gear. (Think the USA's Pine Gap facility near Alice Springs in the NT). Any telephone conversation in Asia (or Australia) can be overheard. Of course, if its encrypted you may not be able to decode it, but (again its a claim) with the advent of extremely powerful quantum computing, most current encryption could be decoded. So a different approach will be required to provide secure communications.

We're talking about some very complex stuff, and I admit I really don't understand it.

An overview of it has been discussed on a web-site specialising in this stuff, and it also reports (on Sept 30) :

"Earlier today, China's pioneering quantum satellite Micius facilitated the first-ever intercontinental video conference using a quantum communications network. The video call connected Chunli Bai, the president of the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing, with Anton Zeilinger, president of the Austrian Academy of Sciences in Vienna, a distance of over 4,600 miles. It was the first real-world demonstration that showed that a global quantum internet is not only possible, but within reach. "

Link: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/xwg53k/china-is-another-step-closer-to-building-a-quantum-internet

5

China Opens World's First Quantum Communications Line

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

the people's daily reports the opening of the world's first, totally secure, quantum communications line.

the line connects shanghai to beijing and some points in between.. .

guests attend the opening ceremony of the jing-hu, or beijing-shanghai,trunk line, in beijing, capital of china, sept. 29, 2017. .

fulltimestudent

burnedout: Are we not thrilled to see the World wide increase of secure downloads of Bible based literature?

Grin! Are you quoting our former loving brothers as evidence that YHWH or JESUS have sent the holy spirit to provide secure downloads?

I'm not sure what they may mean when they use the term, 'secure downloads' , but my understanding of current 'in use' technology is that no current system is completely safe. (If I'm wrong, someone please correct me). Its possible their use of the term may hinge on so-called unbreakable encryption. If so further developments in quantum computing may end that possibility. (See: http://theconversation.com/will-superfast-quantum-computers-mean-the-end-of-unbreakable-encryption-64402 )

Again as I understand the situation, there has been a lot of research around the world into the possible development of quantum technology for completely safe electronic communication.

Back in June, Australia's government owned media group mentioned the successful development of a quantum satellite. Under the Heading - "Chinese scientists use satellite to smash quantum entanglement distance record" the report stated:

"The experiment by a group of Chinese researchers, led by Professor Jian-Wei Pan of the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS), takes us a step closer to achieving instant, unhackable communication."

Link: http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-06-16/chinese-satellite-breaks-quantum-entanglement-distance-record/8620240

32

A Korean Tragedy

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

the modern history is full of deep, dark tragedies.

and, my intention, as i sat down to write of those tragedies for a fb page i look after for a macquarie university student society, was to tell the story of these very dark contemporary events.

but east asia history is complex and i think its helpful to try to have an overview of that history to understand what has happened in the recent past.

fulltimestudent

A Korean Tragedy.

The Back Story: 4. Russia, Japan and Korea … and now the USA

Did The USA sell out the Koreans to the Japanese?

Let’s look back in history for an answer.

The USA had mediated an end to the Russian-Japanese war, and during the negotiations (at some point) the US Secretary of War, W.H.Taft and the Japanese PM Katsura Taro had a chat about other issues and ..

"...The two concluded the secret Taft-Katsura Agreement, in which the United States acknowledged Japanese rule over Korea and condoned the Anglo-Japanese alliance of 1902. At the same time, Japan recognized U.S. control of the Philippines."

Quoted from a document prepared by the (previously mentioned American, "Office of the Historian.")

Link: https://history.state.gov/milestones/1899-1913/japanese-relations

Why would the USA have had wanted the Japanese government to recognise American control of the Philippines?

That was because as the Spanish Empire collapsed at the end of the nineteenth century, the USA had bought Guam, Puerto Rico and the Philippines from Spain for the sum of twenty million dollars. The problem was that freedom fighters in the Philippines had refused to accept that transaction, and had fought the American occupation forces. The American Army used tactics similar to those developed in the American Indian wars, and some 126,000 American troops had slaughtered some 16,000 Philippino soldiers and contributed to the death of at least 200,000 civilians.

Why was the USA interested in discussing their invasion of the Philippines with Japan? Because Japan had won control of Taiwan from the Chinese in the 1890's and many thought that the Japanese were also interested in the Philippines. The Taft-Katsura Agreement set out both nations interests and essentially set out a Japanese agreement to Imperial America’s takeover of the Philippines.

What did the Japanese get in return? In return the Americans recognized that Imperial Japan could take over Korea.

Were the Koreans sold out? What do you think?

From 1910 to 1945 Korea became part of the Japanese Empire.

Darker tragic events loom closer.

32

A Korean Tragedy

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

the modern history is full of deep, dark tragedies.

and, my intention, as i sat down to write of those tragedies for a fb page i look after for a macquarie university student society, was to tell the story of these very dark contemporary events.

but east asia history is complex and i think its helpful to try to have an overview of that history to understand what has happened in the recent past.

fulltimestudent

And that brings us to the modern period and some very dark times in Korea.

But before we get to the time period in which many of us have lived, there is one more incident to consider. That incident raises a question. Did the USA sell out the Koreans to Japan?

5

China Opens World's First Quantum Communications Line

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

the people's daily reports the opening of the world's first, totally secure, quantum communications line.

the line connects shanghai to beijing and some points in between.. .

guests attend the opening ceremony of the jing-hu, or beijing-shanghai,trunk line, in beijing, capital of china, sept. 29, 2017. .

fulltimestudent

The People's Daily reports the opening of the world's first, totally secure, quantum communications line. The line connects Shanghai to Beijing and some points in between.

Guests attend the opening ceremony of the Jing-Hu, or Beijing-Shanghai,Trunk Line, in Beijing, capital of China, Sept. 29, 2017.

The line also connects to the world's first quantum satellite which has been in operation for some months.

More information at: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2101071-china-launches-worlds-first-quantum-communications-satellite/

and http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0930/c90000-9275699.html

For a description of the international research goals to date, check this Australian National University web-site: http://photonics.anu.edu.au/qoptics/Research/securequantumcom.html

32

A Korean Tragedy

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

the modern history is full of deep, dark tragedies.

and, my intention, as i sat down to write of those tragedies for a fb page i look after for a macquarie university student society, was to tell the story of these very dark contemporary events.

but east asia history is complex and i think its helpful to try to have an overview of that history to understand what has happened in the recent past.

fulltimestudent

A Korean Tragedy.

The Back Story. 4. Russia, Japan and Korea. (continued)

Above all, from the viewpoint of this discussion, the Qing Empire renounced all influence in Korea, but Russia, not Japan that won immediate influence in Korea. There was a Korean political group that wanted to allow stronger Japanese influence, but a stronger group wanted more Russian influence. The King even ruled Korea from the Russian Embassy for a period. This was something that the Japanese could not tolerate. The Japanese government offered a compromise to the Russians. The Russians could have Manchuria and Japan would have Korea. The Russians refused they wanted an all-year naval base in Port Arthur (Now called Dalian again).

After negotiations broke down, the Japanese navy made a surprise attack on the Russian Eastern fleet in Port Arthur, destroying most of the Russian ships. That was the commencement of the Russo-Japanese war. The Tsar sent a second fleet from Europe. The Japanese navy waited in ambush and destroyed that fleet too.

The war hung on until a peace was negotiated by American President Theodore Roosevelt in the so-called Treaty of Portsmouth.

For the first time in modern history (from a western viewpoint) an Asian nation had humiliated a European nation in a war. It was difficult for some to accept.

Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany was warning of a ‘yellow peril,' and that Japan and China would unite against Europe.

"Twenty to thirty million Chinese, supported by a half dozen Japanese divisions, led by competent, intrepid Japanese officers, full of hatred for Christianity—that is a vision of the future that cannot be contemplated without concern, and it is not impossible. On the contrary, it is the realisation of the yellow peril, which I described a few years ago”

And Japan? Japan gradually absorbed Korea, and in a few years declared it part of Japan