Posts by fulltimestudent

11

A World so different to the one I grew up in.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

in the early 1950's i changed my life.

i started to study the bible with a jw.

big mistake!

fulltimestudent

Unimagineable also, is the reduction in extreme poverty. The Wt and Awake kept us asleep to real world efforts to reduce poverty. We were all going to starve to death in the view of the Awake.

But recent figures show the opposite. Not that third world poverty is no longer a problem. But the facts show a reduction in extreme poverty.

This issue of the Economist demonstrates the progress made:

Quote: "Until recently the world’s poorest people could be divided into three big groups: Chinese, Indian and everybody else. In 1987 China is thought to have had 660m poor people, and India 374m. The concentration of destitution in those two countries was in one sense a boon, because in both places better economic policies allowed legions to scramble out of poverty. At the last count (2011 in India; 2013 in China) India had 268m paupers and China just 25m. Both countries are much more populous than they were 30 years ago."

The Chinese government though suggests the real figure for extreme poverty in China may be about 50 million, and is conducting a current campaign to eliminate the last pockets of poverty in the nation.

How different to the early 1950's .- In those years, China had a population of 400 million and 80% (over 300 million) lived in extreme poverty.

11

A World so different to the one I grew up in.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

in the early 1950's i changed my life.

i started to study the bible with a jw.

big mistake!

fulltimestudent

In the early 1950's I changed my life. I started to study the bible with a JW. Big mistake!

We were, I learned, living in the very last days of the last days of this old world. A New World would soon be here.

"When will the end come?" I asked the father (a 'servant' in the Sydney cong. I attended) of the young brother who studied with me. He replied, "I think it will come very soon," he replied. "Within the next 5 years." he added. Well the years rolled by and he came to the end of his life. I attended his funeral with his family. It should have be a red flag to me. But saturated with bible teachings I made excuses.

Not long ago, I saw his son's pik on FB, He's old now - just like me. And. its quite clear to me, not just that the end of the world is NOT coming, but also, that YHWH and his sidekick Jesus are figments of men's imaginations.

And this world goes on. changing all the time, as it has done for all of time. In the city this morning, there were two things that flagged two of those changes to me.

This is the first. Its Sydney Town Hall:

And the flag is the Gay and Lesbian rainbow flag. Its flying on the Town Hall in recognition of the fact that this is Mardi Gras month (something like Gay Pride in other countries). Who could have thought when I was young that this could ever happen?

But it has! And as Australian's know, in a plebiscite last year 62% of Australians voted to approve same sex marriage. Approved in the face of a nasty struggle by many churches to maintain a ban on same sex marriage.

The other big change was at Circular Quay - a city hub, where the first white settlement was established. Here's what I saw.

As well as Mardi Gras month, its also Chinese New Year Time (or, the Spring Festival, if you prefer). It was inconceivable in the early 1950's that China would ever be, Australia's largest export market, or that more Chinese students would study in Australia, than students from any other country, or that China would have become internationally important.

But that's what one can see at Circular quay this week. Colorful lanterns from China, all around circular quay. to celebrate CNY, along with a big delegation of performers, all from China.

Unimaginable all those years ago.

8

The Korean Situation

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

against a background of continued usa leaks threatening a 'surgical strike' on the dprk (north korea), a move that does not have complete support in the south, the north invoked 'charm' as it's next 'weapon.

here's how the republic of korea's (south korea), government owned news agency (arirang news) saw the north's charm offensive:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lif_mkr-ovy.

fulltimestudent

GRIN !!! You do not read much, do you Morpheus?

But OK, so you want to use a 'light test' to judge the world? Let's look at a larger image of world lighting, while keeping in mind that maps like that must reflect the population in an area.

The image does not change the Korean contrast, but it does show China in much the same 'light' as South Korea and Japan.

The dark patch on the China map is Tibet, with an extremely low population density (compare Russia's Siberia which also has an extremely low population density).

And if you focus down onto a few of China's ten Tier one cities you will see that China is not dark like NK? So how do you explain that China is so lit-up? And please note that one of these top tier cities did not exist (except as a village) when Deng Xiaoping came to power and set China on a more pragmatic courses. These days, Shenzhen is the electronics capital of the world. How do you explain that?

In fact, how do you explain the rise of China, given that post 1950 China suffered greatly from the sort of savage sanctions (trade restrictions) that eventually crushed many nations? And it's those sanctions, more than anything else that makes NK dark on your posted map.

I have not claimed that NK is a paragon of virtue, but the American policy of hostility and sanctions is very much like the similar policies that Christianity has used in the past (and the JW's continue to use).

My claim is that you do not change countries by exclusion. The north Koreans are quite well aware that the USA can obliterate them. They have already experienced that obliteration in the closing months of the Korean war, where many reports state that there was hardly a building left standing. That more than anything else has fed their desperate drive to become a nuclear power, and the current problem that if the US strikes NK, then likely Seoul and some Japanese cities and possibly some American cities may suffer retaliation. Do you really think that is a desirable outcome?

A far better policy (in my very humble opinion) is to be inclusive. Everyone wants a better life. Feed that desire and change will inevitably follow. In spite of all the extreme measures used by the NK government to exclude knowledge of the outside world, that sort of information is gradually seeping into NK. If you looked at the South Korean videos I posted in this thread, you will have seen some 300 women (the cheer squad) likely all to have been from the elite classes, touring to various south Korean sights, Do you think they are not going to compare NK with SK? Yes, their ability to influence the leadership may be limited, but on the other, they may make remarks to families and close friends that will gradually change NK.

That's a whole lot better than blowing the shit out of people.

So take a look at that other place you hate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSgdUVxNrbM

And, take some time to search Youtube or the internet for piks of pre-1949 China.

8

The Korean Situation

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

against a background of continued usa leaks threatening a 'surgical strike' on the dprk (north korea), a move that does not have complete support in the south, the north invoked 'charm' as it's next 'weapon.

here's how the republic of korea's (south korea), government owned news agency (arirang news) saw the north's charm offensive:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lif_mkr-ovy.

fulltimestudent

As you would likely suspect, not everyone agrees with my assessment (which is an optimistic view, but still a possibility)

Australia's own government owned ABC, takes a more negative line in this review:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-15/stan-grant-north-korea-pyeonchang-pyongyang-games-olympics/9449346

All the claims may well be true, but that's not quite the point. What would be most desirable, would be for the political tensions to be toned down, and some kind of rapport emerge that would allow a slow improvement in the lives of the NK population.

I cant see that re-unification is on the political horizon. Many in South Korea are against it, and why would North Korea's regime want it, just as they have come to feel more secure behind their nuclear wall?

8

The Korean Situation

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

against a background of continued usa leaks threatening a 'surgical strike' on the dprk (north korea), a move that does not have complete support in the south, the north invoked 'charm' as it's next 'weapon.

here's how the republic of korea's (south korea), government owned news agency (arirang news) saw the north's charm offensive:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lif_mkr-ovy.

fulltimestudent

Against a background of continued USA leaks threatening a 'surgical strike' on the DPRK (North Korea), a move that does not have complete support in the South, the North invoked 'charm' as it's next 'weapon.'

Here's how the Republic of Korea's (South Korea), government owned News Agency (Arirang News) saw the North's charm offensive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIf_mkr-ovY

And the Hongkong based South China Morning Post's view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwxO5skDbzY

Why the sudden change in Kim Jong-un's methodology?

My interpretation is that now the North has the world's attention with the view that the North has a nuclear capability, they likely feel they can relax the tension. That view is based on the oft discussed view (by Korea watchers) that the North's worst fear was some sort of 'regime-change effort by the USA. Feeling safer behind their nuclear wall, they used the winter Olympics to influence public opinion in South Korea. Time will tell whether this is the way it will work out.

Of course, it may be that the sanctions are hurting more than may be apparent. But, even though China has, from all reports, severely cut official trade across border with NK, there are almost no reports that Russia has cut its trade with NK. A train line from Russia to NK is apparently working normally, and of course Vladivostok, Russia's major centre in East Siberia, is less than 500 km away.

Will it last?

Maybe! Kim Jong-un's sister hand delivered an invitation to the South's President Moon to visit North Korea for talks.

Arirang News speculates on that topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbj9hZY_OX0

11

Another Aspect from which to View Prostitution

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

if we put on our western cultural (you know, the ones that say jesus made the world) eye-glasses we will 'see' prostitution as something bad.. the 'christian' influenced view is that prostitution is a criminal racket run by gangsters, and the women (and sometimes men) have either been bullied by their pimps, or drugged until they become addicts and forced to work in brothels.**.

some of that is likely true (at times), but is it always 'truth'?.

australia's government owned abc media network, has an article that invites us to take off our western cultural eye-glasses and see the world as it really is.

fulltimestudent

Australia's government owned ABC, offers another story on prostitution:

Quote: "Sex work was one of the major ways poor women could earn a reasonable income in the 19th century. Especially unmarried women with babies."

Respectable people frowned on single mothers, who likely had no access to child care etc or welfare. So sex work may have been their only alternative.

Read the full story at: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-14/sex-work-in-19th-century-melbourne-what-rubbish-can-tell-us/9430592

16

The Dark-Skinned Early Briton.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i'm sure many others noted in yesterday's news feeds, that scientists deciphering the dna of the skeleton remains of a man thought to have died some 10,000 years ago in the south of england, have presented him as:.

as blue-eyed (now that's quite english) but as dark skinned.

and, that's not very english, to the horror of many.. (link: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/02/ancient-face-cheddar-man-reconstructed-dna-spd/ ).

fulltimestudent

LongHairGal : "They think early Europeans had darker skin and through a mutation lighter skin developed over time."

I would appear so, LHG. Though if we accept the Nat Geo write-up, we could envision people of this type co-existing with people who had a much lighter skin tone.

The other interesting point is that this person had a darker skin AND blue eyes (or, that's how they are reading his genome). I'd previously thought that the blue eyes/pale skin mutation had occurred together.

stan livedeath : "interesting bust. made by cadburys perhaps ?"

Grin! Don't Cadburys' make white chocolate also?
Link Dislike Like

16

The Dark-Skinned Early Briton.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i'm sure many others noted in yesterday's news feeds, that scientists deciphering the dna of the skeleton remains of a man thought to have died some 10,000 years ago in the south of england, have presented him as:.

as blue-eyed (now that's quite english) but as dark skinned.

and, that's not very english, to the horror of many.. (link: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/02/ancient-face-cheddar-man-reconstructed-dna-spd/ ).

fulltimestudent

I'm sure many others noted in yesterday's news feeds, that scientists deciphering the DNA of the skeleton remains of a man thought to have died some 10,000 years ago in the south of England, have presented him as:

as blue-eyed (now that's quite English) but as dark skinned. And, that's not very English, to the horror of many.

(link: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/02/ancient-face-cheddar-man-reconstructed-dna-spd/ )

But what immediately jumped into the forefront of my (admittedly distorted by 50 years of JWdom) mind, was that this was the color that WT theorists imagined as Adam's skin color. (The article,that's stuck in my mind, described Adam as a mulatto).

The National Geographic coverage noted: "That's because a new analysis of the ancient man's DNA proves he's genetically similar to other dark-skinned individuals from the Mesolithic era found in Spain, Hungary, and Luxemborg whose DNA has already been sequenced. The new revelation places the Cheddar Man among a group of hunter-gatherers that are thought to have migrated to Europe at the end of the last Ice Age some 11,000 years ago."

How interesting, in the light of current debates about white skin and history,

8

Did the Jews invent themselves and Israel in response to Hellenism

by Crazyguy in

after alexander the great died a greek family called the ptolemy’s took over egypt and the area we call israel today.

they instituted a new form of god worship for their empire the worship of the king and a new god named serapis.

serapis was a combination of several egyptian and greeks gods combined into one god.

fulltimestudent

Crazyguy: " What I don’t understand is why the Ptolemy’s if they actually did this we don’t know for sure, contracted, some Jews to write their books into Greek? If they were not behind writting a Greek bible so to speak then why would the Jews do so, for they thought the older Hebrew language sacred so we’re told? The other question is are these writtings really Jewish and if not why make them look as if they are."

Our main source of information regarding the translation of the Septuagint, is the so-called Letter of Aristeas, which is discussed in the link below, so I won't go into some of the obvious indications that it is has a few deficiencies as an explanation.

http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2016/03/31/A-Brief-History-of-the-Septuagint.aspx#Article

Let's extract an important point from that article. By the time of Jesus, Greek had become the most important language of the Eastern Roman Empire and prior to Roman power, the Seleucid and Ptolemaic empires. And, the Greeks did not just live in what we now know as Greece, but also lived around the coast of Asia Minor. They were undoubtedly a very important part of the world at that time. In contrast, aside from the importance that the various brands of christianity have placed on the Jews, they were rather insignificant.

But large numbers lived in other areas of the ancient world. It is known that the city of Alexandria had a large Jewish population, as an example. Also, there were at least two Jewish temples in Egypt (that we know of), the first is the temple of Onias which was located at Leontopolis, and the other was located on the island of Elephantine, where it served a garrison of Jewish soldiers (who were in the service of the Ptolemies). In Roman times, as friction developed between the Jews and the Romans (that eventually led to the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem and Jews being expelled from Jerusalem), Jews in Egypt and some other north African locations conducted a serious guerrilla campaign against Roman forces. All these Jews likely spoke Greek rather than Aramaic, so a possible reason is that a Greek translation served these non-palestinian Jews.

And noting that the Letter of Aristeas invokes the world famous Library of Alexandria (then the largest in the world - or so it is claimed) and an associated research centre known as the Mouseion, maybe a translation of the Jewish religious books was wanted for the Library and the Mouseion, for the sake of owning a copy that could be read by Greek speaking students and teachers.

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria )

By the way, there were other translations of the OT into Greek, not much remains of them, but I suggest they were another indication that Jews in the Palestine area were becoming hellenised.

8

Did the Jews invent themselves and Israel in response to Hellenism

by Crazyguy in

after alexander the great died a greek family called the ptolemy’s took over egypt and the area we call israel today.

they instituted a new form of god worship for their empire the worship of the king and a new god named serapis.

serapis was a combination of several egyptian and greeks gods combined into one god.

fulltimestudent

Crazyguy: "After Alexander the Great died a Greek family called the Ptolemy’s took over Egypt and the area we call Israel today."

Just a minor correction. After Alexander's death, the west Asian section of his empire was divided between the Seleucid dynasty, based mainly in Syria and the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt. Control of Palestine and Jerusalem seesawed between the two rival Greek dynasties.

Is that important? Yes, because the best Jewish account that we have of opposition to the hellenising process is the semi-canonical Maccabees, which took place against a background of a time when the Seleucids were in control.

The author of a Wikipedia entry, notes: "Antiochus' aggressive Hellenizing (or de-Judaizing) activities provoked a full scale armed rebellion in Judea—the Maccabean Revolt.[31]Efforts to deal with both the Parthians and the Jews as well as retain control of the provinces at the same time proved beyond the weakened empire's power."

First Maccabees, describes some of the acculturation process: "... Some of the people eagerly went to the king (i.e Antiochus). He authorized them to observe the ordinances of the Gentiles. So they built a gymnasium in Jerusalem, according to Gentile custom, and removed the marks of circumcision, and abandoned the holy covenant. They joined with the Gentiles and sold themselves to do evil."

And second Maccabees provides more detail. Under High Priest Jason, the account tells us even priests wore Greek garb and attended the gymnasium:

Chapter 4.
Verse 10. "When Jason received the king’s approval and came into office, he immediately initiated his compatriots into the Greek way of life.He set aside the royal concessions granted to the Jews through the mediation of John, father of Eupolemus* ... he set aside the lawful practices and introduced customs contrary to the law.
With perverse delight he established a gymnasium* at the very foot of the citadel, where he induced the noblest young men to wear the Greek hat.13The craze for Hellenism and the adoption of foreign customs reached such a pitch, through the outrageous wickedness of Jason, the renegade and would-be high priest, that the priests no longer cared about the service of the altar. Disdaining the temple and neglecting the sacrifices, they hastened, at the signal for the games, to take part in the unlawful exercises at the arena. What their ancestors had regarded as honors they despised; what the Greeks esteemed as glory they prized highly."

You have to put the two texts together to see the full picture.

Young priests (and other young men of the Jewish elite) were going to the Greek gymnasium, which was also a school teaching Greek thought. In the exercises they performed they did so naked, that's why the previous text mentioned that the Jews attending attempted to "de-circumcise,**" themselves.

And that led to the Maccabean rebellion, and some 100+ years of independence. But the elite did not resist cultural Hellenisation in other fields. Greek became the main language of the Jews, and Yes! Your, main premise has at least a grain of truth in it.

** In other words, they attempted to stretch what remained of their foreskin, so that they would not stand out as circumcised. An interesting contrast in customs. Jews could not be Jewish without circumcision, thus exposing the head of their penis. The Greeks of that time, thought it shameful to expose the head of their penis. To ensure that did not happen, some would tie a ribbon around the foreskin so that it could not rise and expose the head of their penis.

-----------------------------------------

Some more interesting references for you:

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-a-story-of-a-fallen-high-priest-1.5346565

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/the-daily-need/jews-who-went-to-the-gymnasium-or-the-real-history-of-hanukkah/5605/

And a very long examination of the hellenising process:

"A HISTORY OF JEWS IN GREEK GYMNASIA FROM THE HELLENISTIC PERIOD THROUGH THE LATE ROMAN PERIOD."

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/jordan_holly_a_200908_ma.pdf

fulltimestudent

Posts by fulltimestudent

Grin! Don't Cadburys' make white chocolate also?