Posts by fulltimestudent

1

Is the Divine Council, Sons of God, on earth or in the heavens?

by I_love_Jeff in

in an interview by our radio station called watchtower of babel, we ask dr. heiser (skip to the fiftieth minute of the interview (50:47).

it is about 5 minutes long) about the parallel passages: psalm 82 (sons of god) and psalm 89:5-7 [6-8] (sons of the most high) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq_phnl1... “psalm 82:1 is perhaps the best example, as it employs the expression ʿdt ʾil(m)(divine council) (hebrew: ףֲדַת־אֵל ) for the council, along with a transparent reference to gods under the authority of israel's god: ‚god (אֱלֹהִים ) stands in the council of el/the divine council (ףֲדַת־אֵל ); among the gods (אֱלֹהִים ) he passes judgment.‛ the second occurrence of אֱלֹהִים (gods) must be semantically plural due to the preposition ‚in the midst of.‛ (deut 32:8-9 (lxx, dss).

a parallel passage, psalm 89:5-7 [6-8], places the god of israel ‚in the assembly of the holy ones‛ (בִקְהַל קְדֹשִים ) and then asks ‚ [for who in the clouds] (בַשַחַק ) can be compared to yahweh?

fulltimestudent

I_love_Jeff : "is the Divine Council, Sons of God, on earth or in the heavens?"

Very esoteric topic! But thnx for posting, its interesting.

As to the answer to the question you posed.

I would answer: Only in the fertile imaginations of some humans.

9

The end of a Chinese 'nail' house

by fulltimestudent in

disputes between residents of resumed property in china, often become dramatic, as in these two cases.. .

these problems are not unique to china, but can arise in any society when the community (government) wants to use the land on which a house stands for somethings different (e.g.

a new school, roads, railways, etc).

fulltimestudent

The UK's BBC's website today reports on the demolition of another famous 'nail-house,' this time in Shanghai.

For fourteen years the owners of this house had refused offers by the Shanghai City Government, so for fourteen years traffic on four-lane street had to go around this house, as in the image below.

The BBC report states that the owners of the house finally accepted an offer** and shortly after, in just 90 minutes, this famous nail-house was gone, probably to the joy of some of the 200 million cars in China.

** Land in China is owned by a either a state authority or a village commune and occupied on what we call 'leasehold.' So ( I guess) in effect the price stated in the report is the value of the unexpired portion of the lease.

Link to the BBC report: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-41303312

7

Can D.Trump Beat the Afghan Hoodoo this Time, and prove the American Empire is Greater than the British Empire?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

president trump has decided to wind up the american war against the taliban.

will he fare better than many before him.. the ny times recently published this group of images ranging from the nineteenth century until now, including this group of british officers (photographed in 1878 in afghanistan) many of whom likely stayed on in afghanistan permanently.. .

i'm sure a group of modern day invaders would not look very different.

fulltimestudent

smiddy3:"Isn`t it true that the Americans were training and supplying the Afghans with weapons,technology etc. in their war with the Russians ?
Wasn`t their a movie about it ? "Charlies War? I think it was called"

Yup! And here's a pik of Charlie himself in Afghanistan, with one of his Afghan mates!

(from wikipedia entry on Charlie Wilson)

Willson was an interesting character, in my judgement an excellent example of that great American concept of, "Somebody do something quick." Not always with a great deal of forethought.

Here's another of the Mujahideen's buddies.

Anyone recognise the guy in the black suit? In this pik, (also from a Wikipedia entry, this one on the Taliban). We see "President Reagan meeting with Afghan Freedom Fighters to discuss Soviet atrocities in Afghanistan. 2/2/83.” — Ronald Reagan Library.

But why did the USA get involved in Afghanistan? I suggest the reason was ideological. Going back further in time, a left wing government had overthrown the King and his government. The former USSR eventually invaded Afghanistan to support that government. The USA became involved to defeat the Russians.

Unintended Consequences: Short term thinking, that is doing something immediately, to fix a problem, without consideration of the long term possible consequences can have disastrous results. Did that happen in Afghanistan? Think about this view expressed in The Guardian

Quote: "When Clement Rodney Hampton-el, a hospital technician from Brooklyn, New Jersey, returned home from the war in Afghanistan in 1989, he told friends his only desire was to return. Though he had been wounded in the arm and leg by a Russian shell, he said he had failed. He had not achieved martyrdom in the name of Islam.
So he found a different theatre for his holy war and achieved a different sort of martyrdom. Three years ago, he was convicted of planning a series of massive explosions in Manhattan and sentenced to 35 years in prison.
Hampton-el was described by prosecutors as a skilled bomb-maker. It was hardly surprising. In Afghanistan he fought with the Hezb-i-Islami group of mujahideen, whose training and weaponry were mainly supplied by the CIA.
He was not alone. American officials estimate that, from 1985 to 1992, 12,500 foreigners were trained in bomb-making, sabotage and urban guerrilla warfare in Afghan camps the CIA helped to set up.
Since the fall of the Soviet puppet government in 1992, another 2,500 are believed to have passed through the camps. They are now run by an assortment of Islamic extremists,... ."

Reference: https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/jan/17/yemen.islam ( Guardian Jan. 17, 1999)

Can we conclude that Charlie Wilson helped to start Islamic terrorism that so worries us today? What do you think?

Central and West Asian Muslims may have reasoned ' "If we can drive the Russians out, who else can we defeat?"

7

Can D.Trump Beat the Afghan Hoodoo this Time, and prove the American Empire is Greater than the British Empire?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

president trump has decided to wind up the american war against the taliban.

will he fare better than many before him.. the ny times recently published this group of images ranging from the nineteenth century until now, including this group of british officers (photographed in 1878 in afghanistan) many of whom likely stayed on in afghanistan permanently.. .

i'm sure a group of modern day invaders would not look very different.

fulltimestudent

President Trump has decided to wind up the American war against the Taliban. Will he fare better than many before him.

The NY Times recently published this group of images ranging from the nineteenth century until now, including this group of British officers (photographed in 1878 in Afghanistan) many of whom likely stayed on in Afghanistan permanently.

I'm sure a group of modern day invaders would not look very different. Will Trump's American Empire win out where the Brits could not?

Quote: (From the NYT story). "Over an 80-year period, the British fought three wars in Afghanistan, occupying or controlling the country in between, and lost tens of thousands of dead along the way. Finally, exhausted by the First World War, Britain gave up in 1919 and granted Afghanistan independence."

See the remainder of the images at: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/29/world/asia/afghanistan-graveyard-empires-historical-pictures.html?mcubz=3

The Earliest Example of the Use of a Zero (Hint: Not Invented by YHWH or jesus)

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

'0' (zero) has long been recognised as having been conceived in india, by indian thinkers.

but the earliest example of its use in a discussion has just been found.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=pv_gxgtuwxy.

the document in which it was found is known as the bakhshali manuscript and is dated to the third or fourth centuries.. and a report on the discovery may be found in the uk news outlet, the guardian, australian edition.

fulltimestudent

'0' (zero) has long been recognised as having been conceived in India, by Indian thinkers. But the earliest example of its use in a discussion has just been found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=pV_gXGTuWxY

The document in which it was found is known as the Bakhshali manuscript and is dated to the third or fourth centuries.

And a report on the discovery may be found in the UK news outlet, The Guardian, Australian Edition. - https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/sep/14/much-ado-about-nothing-ancient-indian-text-contains-earliest-zero-symbol

PS, for the sake of accuracy, we should note the caveat in the Guardian's version:

Quote: "Several ancient cultures independently came up with similar placeholder symbols. The Babylonians used a double wedge for nothing as part of cuneiform symbols dating back 5,000 years, while the Mayans used a shell to denote absence in their complex calendar system.

However the dot symbol in the Bakhshali script is the one that ultimately evolved into the hollow-centred version of the symbol that we use today. It also sowed the seed for zero as a number, which is first described in a text called Brahmasphutasiddhanta, written by the Indian astronomer and mathematician Brahmagupta in 628AD.

114

Breaking News - NK Missile Overflies Japan

by cofty in

story breaking on reuters here.... kim jong-un seems determined to start a war.

nk is a national cult of personality.

hating the rest of the world is the first tenet of faith..

fulltimestudent

It seems that Russia is becoming increasingly important in working out a solution (or, at least preventing the possible death of thousands on the Korean Peninsula).

A former Indian diplomat, M.K.Bhadrakumar, in any article for the Hongkong Asia Times discussed Putin's role. During the past week, Russia held an Eastern Economic Forum in Vladivostok and its understood that a DPRK (North Korea) delegation qualified to discuss economic issues was invited and attended.

Interestingly, the President of the ROK (South Korea) Moon Jai-In also attended the Russian forum, Following that forum Putin attended a meeting of the BRICS group ( that is Brazil, Russia, India China and South Africa ) in Xiamen, China, and gave and in a speech said:

"“Everyone remembers well what happened to Iraq and Saddam Hussein. Hussein abandoned the production of weapons of mass destruction. Nonetheless… Saddam Hussein himself and his family were killed… Even children died back then. His grandson, I believe, was shot to death. The country was destroyed… North Koreans are also aware of it and remember it. Do you think that following the adoption of some sanctions, North Korea will abandon its course on creating weapons of mass destruction? “Certainly, the North Koreans will not forget it. Sanctions of any kind are useless and ineffective in this case. As I said to one of my colleagues yesterday, they will eat grass, but they will not abandon this program unless they feel safe.

South Korea's President Moon at a press conference WITH Putin, also commented:

"Mr. President (Putin) and I have also agreed to build up the basis for the implementation of trilateral projects with participation of the two Koreas and Russia, which will connect the Korean Peninsula and the Russian Far East… We have decided to give priority to the projects* that can be implemented in the near future, primarily in the Far East. The development of the Far East will promote the prosperity of our two countries and will also help change North Korea and create the basis for the implementation of the trilateral agreements. We will be working hard on this.”

It seems to me that this may be a more constructive approach, than promising (and, doing just that) to blow the sh*t out of someone.

* To clarify what sort of projects they are discussing, here are three possibilities:

1. an extension of the Trans-Siberian railway system into South Korea via North Korea.

2. a gas pipeline connecting South and North Korea with the vast Russian oil and gas fields in the Far East.

3.Transmission lines to take surplus electricity from the Russian Far East to the Korean Peninsula.

6

A find on Fred Franz's "system of things"

by careful in

i was looking at the footnote in the 3rd ed.

of weymouth's nt (1912) on an unrelated topic and i happened on the phrase "the passing away of the present system of things" (p. 659 n. 2).

when i was in, i remember reading that the nwt "committee" (= f. franz) came up with that "system of things" rendering of the greek aion from john parkhurst's very old lexicon.

fulltimestudent

slimboyfat : ... Franz was eclectic in the places he gathered NWT idiosyncrasies. When I've got time I'm going to look at WT literature from the 1940s and 1950s to look for references to Weymouth, explanations of this "system of things" phrase, and the background of NWT peculiarities generally.

Here's an interesting background for another closely related term. As I've made clear in many past posts, the central focus of my uni studies has been Chinese history, and in examining the influences on the Chinese revolutionaries of the first half of the twentieth century, I found this possible link to Joe Rutherford and his (possibly) last book, likely ghost written by our beloved brother Freddy, named "The New World." (published 1942). (That's the year Joe R. died, although he may not have been mentally competent in his last year.

)

( https://www.amazon.com/World-Watchtower-Bible-Tract-Society/dp/B000J3L0ZW )

When I got involved with YHWH's New World Society, a common term in use in the early 1950s, we often used that term in preaching, meetings and prayers. Even assemblies were themed with the term.

So it was with a certain mental jolt that a few years ago ,I saw a reference in a text book on China, by a certain J.D.Spence, "The Search for Modern China'" (P.257). He referred to a group called "the Anarchist New World Society,"

This 'anarchist new world society,' had been founded in Paris,
by "a group of Chinese anarchists who established the Xin shijie she (New World Society), which started the publication of the journal Xin Shiji (New Era) in 1907"

It may seem difficult to link that group with old Joe Rutherford. But I suggest a possible link. The WT leadership under Russell (of which Rutherford became a part) spent a lot of time in Europe (including Paris), so it is quite possible that in the era of intellectual ferment following the collapse of so many empires that the WT group may have heard of that Chinese group.

Both Russell and Rutherford seemed to well aware of political trends and when we examine Rutherford's books in the 1920s and 1930s, ( like Riches, Vindication 1, 2 and 3 and Light 1 and 2) there is a strong radical influence noticeable. You could almost call that influence anarchist. Check the illustrations in those books, most include the same three figures, bloated capitalists, dissolute religious figures and slimy politicians, all in lurid color, with all those figures often
manipulated by a threatening cartoonish devil and a hope of a better future when greedy capitalists, priests and politicians have been destroyed.

According to one commentary, that Chinese group in Paris had one difference to the standard European Anarchist movements.

Although the European anarchist movement advocated social transformation, the Chinese anarchists stand out because of the primary importance they placed on the abolition of the old culture.

European anarchists reserved some of their harshest critiques for
Christianity, seen as one of the three pillars of authoritarianism,
along with capitalism and the state. Chinese anarchists declared
all-out war against Confucian culture, which they saw as a form of
social control roughly analogous to western Christianity in its
hegemonic penetration of society and proscription of social norms.

So was old Joe Rutherford influenced by a group of Chinese dissidents? Impossible to prove beyond doubt, but an interesting possibility.

6

A find on Fred Franz's "system of things"

by careful in

i was looking at the footnote in the 3rd ed.

of weymouth's nt (1912) on an unrelated topic and i happened on the phrase "the passing away of the present system of things" (p. 659 n. 2).

when i was in, i remember reading that the nwt "committee" (= f. franz) came up with that "system of things" rendering of the greek aion from john parkhurst's very old lexicon.

fulltimestudent

The translation of αἰών ( as in Matthew 24:3 ) may be difficult.

As I'm sure most of us know, a common alternative rendering in many bibles, is "world". But some translations use "Age", in the sense of "epoch." Which may more closely match the meaning of αἰών.

I would not take the extreme position of saying that everything connected with the JWs is bad! bad! bad!

Interestingly, I had a conversation with one of my lecturers on day ( A committed Christian) and in passing he commented that he considered the NWT a very "lively translation."

I think that it is with great difficulty that some ancient Greek words are translated into English.

-----------------------------------

You will of course find academics who have differents opinions about the NWT.

( for anyone interested in the credentials of Dr Chris Forbes, you can find his Macquarie University bio at:

https://www.mq.edu.au/about_us/faculties_and_departments/faculty_of_arts/department_of_ancient_history/staff/dr_chris_forbes/

11

The Real Ark of the Covenant May Have Housed Pagan Gods - Haaretz

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

according to the bible, the biblical ark of the covenant contained the ten commandments tablets, but some israeli archaeologists have a different view.. haaretz media site publishes the story:.

the real ark of the covenant may have housed pagan gods.

the holy ark was likely kept in jerusalem for much less time than the bible tells us.

fulltimestudent

David_Jay: Many Jews, like myself, believe they have a claim to the land as well and all should live in harmony there.

Yes, but that's not quite what has happened, is it?

Do you think there is a case to call the Palestinian/Jewish friction, fratricide?

Think about it. The Jews were eventually driven out of Jerusalem by the Roman army, but continued to live in the surrounding areas. And then came Islam - I think there is a very strong possibility that many people who may have worshipped as Jews, switched to Islam, some perhaps by force, but not necessarily by force. Islam did not always use force to convert. The population of the land became Muslim with the possible exception of brief periods during the Crusades.

Is there any evidence? Consider the evidence provided by genetics:

Blood Brothers: Palestinians and Jews Share Genetic Roots
"Confronted by the violence sweeping over Israel, it can be easy to overlook the things that Jews and Palestinians share: a deep attachment to the same sliver of contested land, ... a common tradition of descent from the patriarch Abraham, and, as scientific research shows - a common genetic ancestry, as well.
Ostrer’s research on “Abraham’s Children in the Genome Era,” published in The American Journal of Human Genetics, sampled 652,000 gene variants from each of 237 unrelated individuals from seven Jewish populations: Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Italian, Turkish, Greek and Ashkenazi. These sequences were then compared with reference samples from non-Jews drawn from The Human Genome Diversity Project, a global database of genetic information gathered from populations across the world.
Each of the Jewish populations, they found, “formed its own distinctive cluster,” indicating their shared ancestry and “relative genetic isolation.”
... Ostrer’s team also identified two major groups of Jews: Middle Eastern Jews (Iranian and Iraqi) and European/Syrian Jews. The split between these two groups of Jews occurred some 2,500 years ago.
... In addition, a “compact cluster” of Yemenite Jews “overlaps primarily with Bedouins but also with Saudi individuals.” Ethiopian and Indian Jews are more closely related to their own neighboring, host populations.
... Are these genetic ties between Jews, Palestinians, Bedouin, and Druze important in a contemporary context? “It doesn’t matter to me personally,” Skorecki says, “since I think that global human identity supersedes all other considerations.”
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/science/1.681385

-------------------------------------------------------------

David_Jay: Except for some fundamentalist Orthodox, most Jews believe the claims of the Bible to the land of Israel somewhat symbolic to stand for each human having a claim to a place on earth to call home.

A pious hope, but one I agree with, except, does it really have to be based on developed ancestry.

Consider what is currently happening in Myanmar, where (maybe some of) Myanmar's Buddhists began a genocidal campaign against the country's Moslem Rohingyas. A persecution now being continued by Myanmar's Army.

It shares an ethnic connection with the Jewish problem also, in that Imperial Britain is at the root of both problems. In the case of Burma (as the Brits called it) they defined the border between India and contemporary Myanmar. I cannot argue that they purposely included unlike groups, although it is a common difficulty in many former British colonies, but there is an argument that the Brits liked to play different groups against each other, hoping that it would be easier to maintain control of the area.

11

The Real Ark of the Covenant May Have Housed Pagan Gods - Haaretz

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

according to the bible, the biblical ark of the covenant contained the ten commandments tablets, but some israeli archaeologists have a different view.. haaretz media site publishes the story:.

the real ark of the covenant may have housed pagan gods.

the holy ark was likely kept in jerusalem for much less time than the bible tells us.

fulltimestudent

According to the Bible, the biblical Ark of the Covenant contained the Ten Commandments Tablets, but some Israeli archaeologists have a different view.

Haaretz media site publishes the story:

The Real Ark of the Covenant May Have Housed Pagan Gods

The holy ark was likely kept in Jerusalem for much less time than the Bible tells us. And it may have contained something other than the Ten Commandments.

Quote: "These biblical stories may all contain echoes of the ancient cults connected to the ark. It is difficult to completely untangle the many layers of history and myth contained in this story thousands of years later, but a broader message does emerge.

The Bible appears to describe the ancient Israelites, from Moses onward, as staunch monotheists who sometimes err towards paganism and are punished for their sins by God. But this picture may be the result of mostly self-serving propaganda by the priests and scribes of the late monarchic or post-exilic periods.

The reality emerging today from the combined work of biblical scholars and archeologists is much more complex and diverse. It indicates that Judaism as we know it today evolved slowly and organically, incorporating a variety of influences and religious traditions from the mosaic of cultures that lived side by side in the region."