Vanderhoven7

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Posts by Vanderhoven7

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  202

  "Are you In the Truth?"

  by Nickolas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i can't remember the last time i was asked that question because it has been many years.

  nor do i remember my response to the questioner but it no doubt contributed to not being asked the question since.

  are you in the truth?

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  Vanderhoven7

  With one exception....the One who claims to be "the Truth" being born of a virgin.

  If we are "in Him" and He in us, then we are in the Truth.
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  18

  Why do I keep digging?

  by ranmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it didnt take a lot of independant research, along with a life full of ridiculous experiences in the religion, to realize that the organization and its gb are just another religion focused on control and conformity.

  so why do i keep digging into the insanity and contradictions that they're based on.

  i think i know why, just want to hear how others feel..

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  Vanderhoven7

  Certainly Jesus encourages us to keep searching till we find the truth. Since "truth" is not a religion, but a person, those who seek Him will find. He cannot fail to keep His promise to all who come to Him.
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  57

  Is the Soul Immortal...Biblically Speaking?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder if someone would care to produce a list (full quotes) of all the proof texts in scripture they are aware of that establish that the human soul is innately immortal?.

  just the scriptures...without comment please...so everyone will see just how clear the bible alone (sola scriptura) is on this issue.

  vander.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi PS,

  <<The spirit is immortal, there is nothing to indicate it can die or be killed and it is stated over and over that at the time fo physical death, the spirit returns to God.>>

  That the spirit returns to God does not equate with immortality. Perhaps you could lift this above the level of assertion with a scripture or two.

  Vander
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  57

  Is the Soul Immortal...Biblically Speaking?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder if someone would care to produce a list (full quotes) of all the proof texts in scripture they are aware of that establish that the human soul is innately immortal?.

  just the scriptures...without comment please...so everyone will see just how clear the bible alone (sola scriptura) is on this issue.

  vander.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi Stephen,

  <<Of course, this leaves us with a similar question, is the spirit immortal?>>

  You tell me...but with scripture of course. ;^)

  Vander
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  57

  Is the Soul Immortal...Biblically Speaking?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder if someone would care to produce a list (full quotes) of all the proof texts in scripture they are aware of that establish that the human soul is innately immortal?.

  just the scriptures...without comment please...so everyone will see just how clear the bible alone (sola scriptura) is on this issue.

  vander.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi Think,

  I don't care to know what inherent immortality has to do with the Trinity.... ;^) .... however I do agree that it is not wise to base doctrine solely on apocalyptic literature which is highly symbolic by nature.

  And just to muddy the water a lot...I believe the 7 headed beast is the Roman Empire (not the RCC). The devil will experience the same fate as that historical abstraction.

  Vander
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  57

  Is the Soul Immortal...Biblically Speaking?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder if someone would care to produce a list (full quotes) of all the proof texts in scripture they are aware of that establish that the human soul is innately immortal?.

  just the scriptures...without comment please...so everyone will see just how clear the bible alone (sola scriptura) is on this issue.

  vander.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi Mall Cop,

  <<I do agree that in the bible itself there is nothing sola scripture that gives us concrete and absolute words from God or man that we have an immortal soul within this material fleshly body. Blueblades, 33 years a WT. slave, now free.>>

  Glad you are finally free. But sad to think of how many homes were broken up and relationships severed during those 33 years.

  <<As a person who has concluded that "THE BIBLE" cannot be relied on for answers to the searching questions such as you ask, may I ask you this, do you actually believe that the information handed down over the centuries in the bible has God's response to these questions or is man actually recording these words written in the various texts?>>

  Yes, I believe the Bible represents the inspired word of God to man and therefore both reliable and authorative in answering questions of faith and practice. May I ask what you rely on for answers to lifes searching questions?

  Vander
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  57

  Is the Soul Immortal...Biblically Speaking?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder if someone would care to produce a list (full quotes) of all the proof texts in scripture they are aware of that establish that the human soul is innately immortal?.

  just the scriptures...without comment please...so everyone will see just how clear the bible alone (sola scriptura) is on this issue.

  vander.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi Stephen,

  <<Here are some souls who have been slain.

  When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Rev.6:9-10>>

  Nothing about innate immortality of soul here Stephen. Assuming that the soul/spirit survives the first death, says nothing about the second death where both body and soul are destroyed/perish.

  BTW, any idea why these souls are pictured under an alter rather than having free roaming rights in heaven? And why are they crying out for vengeance when their slayers are allegedly already roasting with Dives in Hades? Unless they want the heat turned up a notch, I believe there is something wrong with the theology.

  Vander

  P.S. The Bible does not teach that people are born immortal. This teaching is merely a repetition of Satan's lie to Eve in the garden. It's introduction into Judiasm during the intertestamental period (between testaments) was of pagan origin. Bible believing Christians who accept this teaching are forced to rely on inadequate and circumstantial evidence that goes against the clear teaching of scripture which informs us that the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
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  69

  Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

  we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

  over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi Jam,

  <<Vander; Yes I am interested on the subject. Who do you recommend.>>

  Matthew Henry is one of my favorites. Here try:

  http://www.searchgodsword.org/desk/?language=en&query=Deut+20%3A14§ion=1&translation=nas&oq=John%25203%3A16&new=1&sr=1&nb=joh&ng=3&ncc=3

  Vander
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  57

  Is the Soul Immortal...Biblically Speaking?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder if someone would care to produce a list (full quotes) of all the proof texts in scripture they are aware of that establish that the human soul is innately immortal?.

  just the scriptures...without comment please...so everyone will see just how clear the bible alone (sola scriptura) is on this issue.

  vander.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi JJ,

  So if someone dies, their soul dies? If I kill someone, have I caused their soul to die?
  
  Matt 10:28 "And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul..."

  Very true JJ, but finish the verse. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather be afraid of God, who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.

  Vander
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  57

  Is the Soul Immortal...Biblically Speaking?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder if someone would care to produce a list (full quotes) of all the proof texts in scripture they are aware of that establish that the human soul is innately immortal?.

  just the scriptures...without comment please...so everyone will see just how clear the bible alone (sola scriptura) is on this issue.

  vander.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi Leolaia,

  Thank you for sharing your knowledge and research.

  I see little evidence of bias in your scholarly analysis.

  I'd wager that your approach can be appreciated by all involved in this discussion.

  Vander