Posts by Cicatrix

27

Still prejudiced towards Halloween

by Snapdragon in

i was just reading the thread on how to pick the proper pumpkin.

(thanks xandria) it got me thinking how i still have this recoil factor when it comes to halloween.

it was always "satan's holiday" that i still tell my friends that i probably won't participate in the festivities when i decide to have children.. what do you guys do about this issue?

Cicatrix

Hi Snapdragon,
You may find this link interesting

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/47/story_4771_1.html

Regards,
Cicatrix

45

What's the first worldly thing you did when you left?

by Nosferatu in

jw
friends

after you left the jws, what was the first worldly thing you did?

the day after my last meeting, i got really really drunk.

Cicatrix

Bought Halloween AND Christmas decorations,lol.

72

Rationalism and religion

by Narkissos in

i've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .

we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.

reason always works from presuppositions.

"I feel what we usually call "irrationality" plays a very important, albeit provisional and transitory, role. For instance when one's rationality comes to a crisis, i.e. when our presuppositions change. As a JW I would have sworn that I had been rationally convinced of the three presuppositions to my religious rationality. But now I know this was not the case. I chose to believe because I chose to believe. And I later chose to disbelieve, or believe something else, because I chose so.

I need the light of day. But I also need the darkness of night and its "irrational" dreams (which still belong to language, even though they don't seem so). Both motivate my actions, even if the daylight falsely claims everything."

Nicely put, Narkissos, this is what I was trying to illustrate in a round about way. I tend to feel it's an evolutionary and cyclical sort of thing that can rear up when events in life create a crisis situation. I'm wondering if we ever outgrow the need for "irrational dreams."

I kind of hope not:)

72

Rationalism and religion

by Narkissos in

i've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .

we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.

reason always works from presuppositions.

Cicatrix

Congrats on your thousandth post, Narkissos:)

72

Rationalism and religion

by Narkissos in

i've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .

we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.

reason always works from presuppositions.

Cicatrix

"If you can be convinced you cannot trust your own perceptions and your own rational mind you are left defenseless to any wild and wooly claim or colorful story or feel-good scenario by any shyster or emissary of God's wild kingdom."

I agree. That's why I stand by my opinion;)Perhaps my experience will change my opinion with time. But until I reach the end of my life, I will not close myself off to the explanations of others, nor stop investigating what exactly perception is.

It seems that there is an example of a difference of perception here on this board. I gave a definition of "religious" that came verbatim from my dictionary, that stated that religious is defined as "relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality OR deity."

Atheists are convinced that objective thinkers endeavoring to apply rational standards use Reality as a standard.Is this application not ultimate reality?What could be a more ultimate reality than Reality itself?

My dictionary also says that religion can mean "A personal set or institutionalized system of religious beliefs and practices." and "A cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."

My dictionary is real and tangible, and it has these definitions in it that I can read, and that can fit the Atheist ideology that "objective thinkers endeavoring to apply rational standards use Reality as a standard."

This is an application of ultimate reality. You hold to it with ardor and faith, discounting and trying to dissuade any one who disagrees with your system of beliefs. Therefore, my perception is that Atheism is a religion, using my dictionary's definitions. I find this to be very reasonable.

Perhaps you are offended by my perception, because you view religion only as being any "wild and wooly claim or colorful story or feel-good scenario." In that case, I would understand why you feel as you do about Atheism being classed as a religion. But for the record, I don't have that view of religion. I respect your opinion and your concern that others not be hurt by religion, and enjoy reading what you have to share about Reality and reason.

As far as all of those mystic thinkers who are corrupting the new crop of college students, well, I didn't learn about any of them in college.I didn't take philosophy, my psych teacher was an atheist, and my mythology teacher taught mythology as MYTHS (although he didn't cover Hebrew mythology to avoid offending Christians in the class).

Oh, and the Reverend of my church is an Atheist, btw;)

28

Batman Penetrates Buckingham Palace Security Live On TV.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

.

this is not good for whomever designed the security system at the palace:.

Cicatrix

"Where's Robin?"

He was there, but he got arrested.

This is certainly an interesting way to get one's message across:)

72

Rationalism and religion

by Narkissos in

i've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .

we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.

reason always works from presuppositions.

Cicatrix

"There may be something as a "gullible rationalism", within and without religion.

What do you think?"

I agree. We are what our minds/brains perceive the world to be. What's rational to one person may be totally irrational to someone else, or even to that same person when their perception of the world and their environment changes due to new experiences. Kind of "I think, therefore, I am."

When I joined the JWs, I was sixteen. I wanted to save the world, and I wanted all my answers to be black and white. Due to my limited experience, the WTS seemed to offer all of the above. As I lived my life, and added new experiences, that view no longer continued to be valid.

Now I'm not so fond of absolutes, lol.

72

Rationalism and religion

by Narkissos in

i've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .

we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.

reason always works from presuppositions.

Cicatrix

"FEAR is the product of religion. RELIEF is the medicine that is peddled. RELIGIOUS identity is the rabbit's foot of comfort.

If that is a HUGE generalization I'm open to refutation."

Hi Terry,
I consider myself religious, but not in a traditional sense.

I am not religious because I fear anything. I don't fear death (I have been in situations where I could have died, so I have had to face this). I'm not religious because I think it's a requirement for immortality. To be quite honest, I'm not yet convinced that there IS any such thing as immortality, but I'm not unconvinced, either. Neither do I feel any need to be immortal, or to "make my name" in the world, so to speak. What I am concerned about most is what can I do now to make a difference for future generations while I am here.

I don't identify with your first two assertions, although I kinda like your last one;)Religious ritual is comforting to me, but more because it fosters a feeling of community. I'm sure you're going to say that I can find this same feeling elsewhere, and you are right, I have. But there is something indescribable about gathering together specifically for religious rituals.

Your inference of persons needing religion due to fear interests me, because just this week, I read something by an author who stated that atheists don't believe because they fear a loss of autonomy. It amuses me that the same arguement has been used for and against the validation of religion.

I am curious-why do you feel a need to convince others that religious belief is nothing but a fallacy?

The dictionary defines religious as meaning "relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to {an acknowledged ultimate reality} or deity. (emphasis mine).

Wouldn't that make a proponent of atheism religious, also?

32

Other Religions

by rain in

jw
friends

something i thought of as i was reading through the posts:

i have read through various posts where it has been said that some feel that jws are not the organisation or people of god.

therefore, has anyone after leaving the jws joined another religion?

Cicatrix

Hi Rain,

I haven't technically joined another religion (I have committment issues now, lol), but I do often go to a nearby Unitarian Universalist church.

When I first left the JWs, I had nothing to do with religion at all. But I realized that I have had a need for spirituality in my life since I was a child, and that I do enjoy religious ritual occasionally. What I no longer have any tolerance for is absolutism or intolerance of others.

I learned about the Unitarian Universalists on this board, actually, and I decided to give that church a try. I've found the members of the particular church I go to, to be tolerant and open minded. Each member is allowed to define and practice their faith, and their choice is respected by other members.

Not only is independent thinking tolerated, it is encouraged. The first sermon I heard, the minister said that we should read all things critically. Respectful debate is the norm, not the exception.

One of the principles of the church is that the inherent dignity of all people should be recognised, and it is. The church community I have joined welcomes everyone who can agree with their seven tenets, and these tenents are just basic commonsense things that nearly everyone can agree on. Therefore, members of ALL religions or no religion are welcome (there are several atheists who attend), persons of all sexual orientations,races,ages,political ideologies,etc.

This church works for me. If there wasn't a UU church in my area, I'm not sure I would go to church at all, though. After the absolutism of the WTS, I'm a much more educated about what I do and do not want as far as religion is concerned.

Edited to add: And alot of my education came from members of this board. Thank you all!

19

Jephthah's daughter

by Cicatrix in

so the wts taught us all that jephthah sacrificed his daughter to jehovah's service at the temple.

well, that's not what i found out today.

i was reading a site on archeology, and they mentioned that jephthah had offered up his daughter as a burnt offering, and that this was sometimes practiced by the canaanites.the article said that some of the israelites had initially settled peacefully amongst the canannites about two hundred years before joshua conquered jericho, and that this is an example of how they adopted some of the canaanite practices.

Cicatrix

"many "scholarly" works, especially in English, are actually fundamentalistic and apologetic stuff which does not really take into account the results of critical research"

Yep. This is all I have run into in regards to Biblical arheology, etc, at the libraries and book stores locally.Most of the sources I've found are online, and are few and far between.

Even my instructors in college were afraid to approach it from the critical perspective (I lived in a very conservative area). My mythology instructor just deleted the Hebrew mythological accounts altogether, although he did like when I alluded to them in my own papers. He read a couple of them out loud to the class:)

At this time, my research is mostly just a hobby, for my own information. I do love Leolaia and Peaceful Pete's threads and will continue to check them out also.

Thanks again for all the info.I learned a lot from what you posted, including some new areas I want to add to my research:)