Posts by jschwehm

90

POLL - Elders vs Molesters

by Amazing in

i wish to conduct a legitimate poll, or at least as legitimate as it can get on this forum.

unless you are or were a jw, please do not respond or make comments.

please simply give an answer, without extended comments.

Position on College Changed?

by Maximus in

jw
friends

several have made outright statements and others have suggested that the society's negative position on higher education has changed.

'the society does not discourage higher education where i live.

' worse, 'apostates have made it all up--the society has never discouraged education.

A friend of mine who was a baptized JW went to college in the 1980's. His parents actually wanted him to go because they knew he was not the type that could do menial labor well and make a good living at it.

The deal his parents made with my friend was that he was to live at home work part time and go to college in the city. He also had to be regular in meeting attendance and field service, etc. Well, the local elders got wind of this young brother going to the University and decided to remove all of his privileges. They no longer allowed him to work the magazine counter, or the microphones, etc. In fact, one day he was the only brother to arrive at the meeting for field service and he was not allowed to lead the group out in service.

He and his parents complained to the CO but to no avail. In fact, the local body of elders sent a college educated elder (I believe this elder completed his degree *before* becoming a JW) with a degree in chemical engineering to his home to tell him about the evils of obtaining a college education.LOL...My friend said that the elder showed up in his luxury car wearing his rolex and even admitted that he would not be able to make this good a living if he had not gone to college.

My friend and his family could not take it anymore and eventually left for another congregation where the elder body their restored his privileges.

Jeff S.

79

What is G-JOBBING for Bethelites?????????

by JT in

jw
friends

had enough asked :.

if you haven't already related to us the experiences at bethel that you told to your mom-in-law, (or even if you already have told us) could you tell us about what you told her.....and...what is "g-jobbing" (sorry for my naivity) .

i didn't want to take away from sl post about his mother but i thought a little insight into the world of the bethelites would be interesting this am.

jschwehm

Yes, that always bothered me. How the Society used people up and then spit them out. Of course depending on the situation, some got away with a lot. I think it just depended on the person and the circumstances.

I will never forget this guy that I entered Bethel with. He was a nice guy and evidently right before he came to Bethel he was starting to get serious with some sister back home. At the end of his first month at Bethel, he took his one vacation day and went home and visited her. He came back and let it be known that he was engaged. His overseers heard about it and were supremely miffed. The young man said that he intended to complete the year that he agreed to before they would set a date for the wedding.

About three months later, I saw him and the poor guy was in a terrible state. He was massively depressed and extremely unhappy. It seems that the overseers decided to give him the worst jobs imaginable in the press room and basically told him that he would never learn anything else because he was going to leave in a year anyway. They had him in a real catch-22. They told him if he left early that it would be the equivalent of breaking his word to Jehovah because he promised God he would spend a year at Bethel. But, they made it clear that they wanted to make his 1 year of life at Bethel as miserable as possible. The poor guy finally did the what I think now is the right thing and left not long after I saw him.

It was situations like these that really made me wonder about the organization and how impersonal it is.

Jeff S.

79

What is G-JOBBING for Bethelites?????????

by JT in

jw
friends

had enough asked :.

if you haven't already related to us the experiences at bethel that you told to your mom-in-law, (or even if you already have told us) could you tell us about what you told her.....and...what is "g-jobbing" (sorry for my naivity) .

i didn't want to take away from sl post about his mother but i thought a little insight into the world of the bethelites would be interesting this am.

jschwehm

Michael3000-

I was at the house in 1987 and I had heard that a bethelite got caught playing his saxophone at Times Square. Since I also played the saxophone and since I am from New Orleans, I could not understand what the big deal was really. It is nice to finally meet you.

Jeff S.

19

Advice requested on response to mom's letter

by paulvarjak in

jw
friends

i received this recently from my mother.

the only contact i've had with any of my family since october has been an occasional email.

you are 28 years old and you made the choice to put yourself, and us, in this position.

jschwehm

Hi-

I have had similar discussions or communications with my folks since leaving the JWs. Again this is what the JWs have been taught to do to their kids who leave the religion.

When I first discussed with my parents my decision to leave the JWs, they warned me that if I did this that it would be difficult for them to have a relationship with me. They went through periods where they did not speak with me at all. They did the guilt thing where they blamed me for leaving and used the emotional blackmail, etc. as your mother is doing. I agree with what Bereoa has said, view them as victims of a cult that are unable to show the natural affection between an parent and child because of that. Also, with time, they may lighten up some. My parents seem to be lightening up a bit as time goes on.

I do not know if I would waste my time responding to her letter unless you see something that can be gained from it. It seems to me that perhaps some letter reaffirming your love for her while respecting her choices as to beliefs might be helpful but do not expect the same in return.

Also, what really ticks me off and my folks did the same to me is that they try to insult your intelligence. I usually ignored such comments from my folks because discussing such things would not be profitable. In reality, religious beliefs have very little to do with intelligence and more to do with social and emotional needs. As far as the JWs are concerned there are very intelligent individuals who are JWs but they are misinformed on many levels. It is more ignorance and less about intelligence or mental ability.

In reality, your mother is scared for your eternal life and I am sure she firmly believes that you will be killed by God at Armageddon just as my mother believes the same about me. It must be very painful for her to think that God will kill you any day now. Just think of how difficult it is for her to have a relationship with someone who is condemned. In her mind she probably views you as an inmate on death row. I know that is how my mother views me. I would say pity her and feel sorry for her since she has such a slanted view of the situation and realize that she is still a victim of the mind games that the JWs are playing on her.

Keep loving her as much as you can.

Jeff S.

79

What is G-JOBBING for Bethelites?????????

by JT in

jw
friends

had enough asked :.

if you haven't already related to us the experiences at bethel that you told to your mom-in-law, (or even if you already have told us) could you tell us about what you told her.....and...what is "g-jobbing" (sorry for my naivity) .

i didn't want to take away from sl post about his mother but i thought a little insight into the world of the bethelites would be interesting this am.

jschwehm

Hi BJ-

I had that conversation with Harold in 1988.

Jeff S.

79

What is G-JOBBING for Bethelites?????????

by JT in

jw
friends

had enough asked :.

if you haven't already related to us the experiences at bethel that you told to your mom-in-law, (or even if you already have told us) could you tell us about what you told her.....and...what is "g-jobbing" (sorry for my naivity) .

i didn't want to take away from sl post about his mother but i thought a little insight into the world of the bethelites would be interesting this am.

jschwehm

Hi-

I am sure that many who go to Bethel are sincere. I am also sure that many who serve in positions of power in the organization are sincere as well. However, as with most things a time comes when an organization loses its roots and the reasons why it exists in the first place. At this point its continued existance at all costs usually becomes the goal. Make no mistake about it. Those individuals who move up the organizational ladder are organization men and are wholly devoted to it. Individuals like Ray Franz and others who put their conscience before organizational loyalty are rare.

When I was leaving Bethel, Harold Corkern who is now the president of one of the new corporations, called me into his office and told me not to discuss those bad things that happen at Bethel with the brothers "on the outside". He said the bad things that happen at Bethel are "none of the business of the brothers on the outside". He told me that the brothers on the outside need to know "only the good things about Bethel."

Harold is a nice man and very sincere but he is wholly devoted to "mother". You can only get to those positions by demonstrating your loyalty to the organization and many times this means hurting individuals to get to those positions. There is really no difference between moving up the organizational ladder at Bethel and moving up the corporate ladder in the world except that at Bethel God is invoked more often. And, while money may not be the currency in which an up and coming heavy at Bethel is paid (although you can get material benefits from moving up in the org) POWER is the ultimate currency in which these guys get paid.

Now, lest anyone think I am painting these guys as sinister or evil, that is not my intention. It is simply human what these guys are doing. In an organization that is heirarchical with no checks and balances on power, these problems will occur because of the way humans are. The fact that they believe that God has put them in these positions of power greatly aggravates the situation of course. It is not necessarily sinister or conspiratorial, it is human for abuses occur when power is not checked and in the borg there is no institutional mechanism to check power.

The most irritating thing is the propaganda that the organization puts out to make it appear as though they are better than any other religious organization on earth. In reality, the religious organization run by the JWs is just like every other religious organization it does some good things and does some bad things. It may help some people but it hurts many other people. And, I would submit that because of the dysfunctional nature of the organization and its bizarre beliefs and the dishonesty of those in charge, the organization hurts more people than it helps.

Jeff S.

93

Position on College Changed?

by Maximus in

jw
friends

several have made outright statements and others have suggested that the society's negative position on higher education has changed.

'the society does not discourage higher education where i live.

' worse, 'apostates have made it all up--the society has never discouraged education.

jschwehm

Let me tell you my experience in going to Bethel.

At the Bethel meetings at the district conventions we were told not to get trained in anything that it would not increase our chances of getting accepted to Bethel. There were numerous opportunities where I had considered going to a trade school while pioneering only to be talked out of it by my parents and elders.

When I got to Bethel, I was assigned to the Paint and Scaffold Crew. There was a young guy who was assigned to this same crew with me. He was mortified to say the least. It turned out that he had some connections and actually got accepted to Bethel before turning 19. He was 18 years old.

He wanted to be an artist and I suppose he was pretty good at it. He wanted out of the Paint and Scaffold Crew so badly that he would leave the Paint and Scaffold Crew department and then go and volunteer to work in the art department after hours. He kept trying to get on the good side of the art dept overseer about getting transferred. This severely ticked off the powers at Bethel and the basically told him to stop doing it or he would never get transferred out of the Paint and Scaffold crew. I wonder if he is still there.

In another interesting story, there was this one guy who came to Bethel with me who got some good advice from his parents who evidently knew how Bethel worked. He went to school and got a degree of some sort in drafting. He did temporary work at Bethel every few months until the overseers in the drafting department asked him to apply for Bethel service.

When our assignments were announced he already knew that he was going to be assigned to the drafting department. The interesting thing was that I got a chance to talk to him after his first month in the drafting department and he was not very happy. It seems that they were making him to grunt work and that he got more interesting projects and assignments working as a temporary worker. Of course, my first couple of weeks was spent scraping paint off the floor of the paint mixing area on the Paint and Scaffold crew floor of the 360 Furman Building. That was fun. :) By the way, I was later informed that assignment was about humility. It had to be because when the guys would come into the mixing area to clean their brushes every evening it was like we had done nothing at all to clean the floor.

Jeff S.

79

What is G-JOBBING for Bethelites?????????

by JT in

jw
friends

had enough asked :.

if you haven't already related to us the experiences at bethel that you told to your mom-in-law, (or even if you already have told us) could you tell us about what you told her.....and...what is "g-jobbing" (sorry for my naivity) .

i didn't want to take away from sl post about his mother but i thought a little insight into the world of the bethelites would be interesting this am.

jschwehm

Hi-

When I was at Bethel they had just started the vow of poverty thing. It used to be that they paid Bethelites 14.00 a month and of course that was not nearly enough to make it to your congregation. When they upped the allowance to 80.00 a month they supposedly did it to stop all of the "G-jobbing" but it still went on. It was my experience that most of the best G-jobbers were the ones who were overseers. They had access to the equipment as you describe and their authority was usually unchecked.

Many of the Bethelites who used to do pretty well money wise with G-Jobbing were supremely ticked off when certain overseers would not allow them to accept jobs and then these same overseers would take the same jobs. It was a case of the fox guarding the chicken coop if you know what I mean.

Those of you who see the double standards of the WTS at the congregation level have not seen anything until you have been to Bethel and experienced the politics, etc. of that place.

Jeff S.

29

My Mother's Letter

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i recently got this letter from my mother, i thought i would share it to help see how this saga continues.

my parents are both regular pioneering as we speak.

have seen their grandchildren for about an hour in the last six months.

jschwehm

Hi Silentlambs-

Your mom does not know what to do with you. I am sure on one level she knows you are doing the right thing and that she has raised you right. On the other hand, she cannot believe that you are fighting against the "mother" organization.

The guilt thing is typical. When I first left the JWs, I got that from my folks all of the time. It stops once they realize it does not work. Perhaps in time they will realize that you did the right thing and will come around or perhaps not. The important thing is that you are living by your conscience and doing the right thing in protecting these kids.

By the way, I was on yahoo the other day and an ex-JW heard our radio show via the internet and was talking to me about it. She thought it was excellent. We are helping people and changing their lives for the better unlike the WT or hurts people.

Jeff S.