MMXIV

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Posts by MMXIV

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  14

  Why does the Elder I work with have a Gambling internet account on our work Computer???

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  yes an elder who i work with and takes the theocratic school every week has an internet gambling account????

  i was snooping thru his personal computer file and found it {i'm bad}....afew weeks later after he told me he was an elder it dissapeared.

  he started working with us without ever saying he was a witness...this went on for months before a sister from another department said "hey _____ is an elder did ya know?

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  MMXIV
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  153

  Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

  by Mattieu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

  http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

  now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

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  MMXIV

  Debator,

  Accusing everyone of being biased is a pretty reductive approach.

  And as an established people's right, religion is a recognised one. All people should have access to religion of their own choice!

  Removing their tax free status won't change this - it's not banning religion or stopping access to religion - it just makes it fairer.

  It's not fair that a religious minister doesn't pay council tax when they benefit from the roads, street lighting, drainage, NHS, police, fire and ambulance services. That's totally unfair.

  MMXIV
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  153

  Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

  by Mattieu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

  http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

  now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

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  MMXIV

  Debator, I see your arguement, but I was expecting to see how

  we pay more taxes than most

  You haven't argued this because you can't and nor can anyone else as it's untrue that JW's pay more than than most or indeed than average.

  I'll use UK as an example as I don't know French tax but lets see if we can refine your example a little...

  We have 3 men working at a office in france, all doing the same type of job and on the same wage level. They all pay taxes as per governmental requirement.

  My first fundamental issue is that I don't believe JW's earn the same as your average person on the street. JW's in my last KH (in an affluent area) mostly didn't work, only about 30% worked which is below the national average of 50% (per national statistics office). They also mostly earned less than the national average of £24k. I'd estimate that the average 100 JW's (working and non working) earned about 50% less than your average 100 people in the UK. Having been in several other congregations I'd say that wasn't too disimilar - if anything they earned less money.

  So if the average income tax for a JW (30%working x £20,000salary x 17%av tax) is £1020.*

  Average income tax for a non JW (50%working x £24,000salary x 17%av tax) is £2040.

  Mr A (an atheist) puts it in his bank getting interest. (doesn't pay further tax on it)

  Mr c (a witness) puts it in a donation box at the back of the kingdom Hall. (The money gets taxed because france doesn't like witnesses)

  Tax on investment income such as bank interest is payable but lets ignore that to keep it simple.

  Mr A non-witness has paid £2040 income tax

  Mr C the witness has paid £1020 income tax plus must pay tax on donations to WTS IF it lost it's charity status. Depending** on the way it was taxed then they'd probably have to donate £5,000-£10,000 to pay tax of £1020. Something tells me the 120,000 odd JW's don't all do that do they??

  Now in all of this we've ignored all other types of tax other than income tax i.e.

  1) Mr A earns more money so spends more money (more VAT, corporatation tax and NIC in the price of goods he buys, stamp duty, IHT etc)

  2) Mr A's employer contributes more tax (apportionment of NIC, corporation tax, business rates etc)

  3) Mr A pays more council tax (less likely to be on reduced rate due to benefits).

  * in fact this would be lower as the average tax rate would be lower.

  **Depending on the way the WTS paid tax i.e. sales tax on it's literature or just on it's profits etc.

  So in reality Mr A will also pay way more in other taxes than Mr C.

  So is it fair that Mr C may have to pay probably an extra £20 tax a year for donations to the WTS (based on estimated contribution of £200) than Mr A, when Mr A already pays several thousand pounds more in tax?

  IMHO JW's do not contribute more to society in general than the average person in the UK. Certainly not financially. So if that's the case in the UK I doubt it's different in France. You ask if it's fair and honest for a government to tax one religion rather than another? Is it fair if one religion takes more from society than another?

  MMXIV
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  153

  Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

  by Mattieu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

  http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

  now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

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  MMXIV

  Debator,

  My point also cannot be used as a reason why the sky is blue and fresh bread smells good. I'm not trying to make a point other than your statement is wrong. It's that s i m p l e.

  But I would be interested in...

  I could probably argue we pay more taxes than most who have no moral teachings to encourage them not to tax dodge.

  (you might want to leave out the sweeping statements though - I think we both know they're not your strong point)

  MMXIV
• 
  153

  Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

  by Mattieu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

  http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

  now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

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  MMXIV

  Debator or should I call you PicnicShortofaHamperrrr

  It's fairly simple. You stated:

  The People that donate to religions have already paid taxes to the governments

  I'm stating that your wrong. Not all people who donate to religions have already paid taxes to the governments. Your sweeping statement is wrong - that's all. There's no bias in that - I never stated an opinion. It's that simple - you made a sweeping statement as though it was fact and you're wrong. What part of that don't you understand and I'll s p e l l i t o u t f o r y o u?

  MMXIV
• 
  153

  Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

  by Mattieu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

  http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

  now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

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  MMXIV

  Debator's sweeping statement:

  The People that donate to religions have already paid taxes to the governments, this is just another way for governments to get more of their money

  You know that as a fact? You can vouch for everyone that gives to religions? There were plenty of people in my KH who didn't work - they never paid tax on earnings cos they didn't have any. In fact they lived off benefits - the taxes that other people paid.

  Don't talk about tax if you don't understand it.

  MMXIV
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  60

  Anyone Know JW's who Donated Inheritances, Estates,$$$ to WT Society ?

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if so - without divulging any names , approximately how much was donated to the wt society ?

  if you are aware of approximate amounts.

  as many know the wt society yearly puts out calls in their publications for witnesses to donate trust funds, wills, inheritances, estates, jewelry, cars and whatever else they have to promote the aleged " kingdom interests " in furthering the " good news " around the world.. personally i feel it's all been a scam to continue exercising control over witnesses by influencing them to financially deprive themselves so the wt society can continue it's operations.

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  MMXIV

  Hi flipper,

  This will differ from country to country but the WTS in the UK in 2009 the financial statements showed income fom legacies totalled 23% of voluntary income or 10% of total income.

  2009 £2.815m

  2008 £2.813m

  2007 £2.534m

  2006 £3.759m

  That is seperate to each Congregation who may also receive legacies to help build a KH which IMHO would be more. There are hundreds of Cong's that are listed as charities so would be an effort to trawl through all of them and they tend only to have a single year of results on-line.

  This can all be freely found on the www.charity-commission.gov.uk site.

  Hope this helps.

  MMXIV
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  21

  Congregation love

  by Anuradha in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i would like to just take this opportunity of sending our love to the greenford congregation!!!!.

  just in case any elders are reading, that's the one in middlesex, uk.

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  MMXIV

  Does that mean you've both escaped?

  Sorry if you've suffered bad treatment. Often that's how people wake up to the lack of love.

  MMXIV
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  21

  Congregation love

  by Anuradha in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i would like to just take this opportunity of sending our love to the greenford congregation!!!!.

  just in case any elders are reading, that's the one in middlesex, uk.

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  MMXIV

  Welcome Anuradha

  I know some that were in Greenford a long time ago - early eighties - were you around back then or fortunate enough to have a more fleeting association with the WTS?

  MMXIV
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  12

  mary

  by isaacaustin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sent you a pm.

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  MMXIV

  there's something about Mary!

  MMXIV