Posts by notverylikely

43

It's only a fight if he has a chance to win...

by notverylikely in

jw
friends

since he doesn't, it's just entertainment and a bare minimum of mental stretching for me :).

lock away, i'll be good now..

notverylikely

NVL, I gotta admit I enjoy your rapier like wit and mastery of debate, but why do you always need to denigrate those you engage?

It's only certain people. Most here I hold in high respect. My issue with asilentone is specific to certain posts he makes in things like wanting to date a woman and wondering if she is smart enough for him. That kinda sets me off and just makes me want to have at.

When I am actually debating someone, I *try* to not engage in anything personal, although we are all human and I, like everyone else, sometimes slip.

You so often protest what appears to be personal attacks yet you invariably do the same to others under the pretense that your point or argument is correct or without fault. What up with that?

When debating :)

Bring it on genius,...

Really, it's not as incongruent as it seems, although I do sometimes get ahead of myself and let out a bit too much dickishness. Sometimes I am like curry, delicious, but a little goes a long way and it's easy to overdo it.

3

If I ever convert back to Christianity

by notverylikely in

this is roughly how i imagine it happening.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1kzkzs-2ym.

notverylikely

I really just need an excuse to say "Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ"

And I loves me some Holy Rollers

3

If I ever convert back to Christianity

by notverylikely in

this is roughly how i imagine it happening.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1kzkzs-2ym.

notverylikely

This is roughly how I imagine it happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1KZKZs-2YM

64

Biblical Prophecies written BEFORE fulfillment

by brotherdan in

satan and nvl recommended that i start this thread.

i'm not sure anyone will have interest.

but one of the things that proves to me that the bible is accurate is the prophecies that were written before the fullfillment, in detal.

notverylikely

NVL: My hat is cooler than yours

Don't you blasphme in here!

64

Biblical Prophecies written BEFORE fulfillment

by brotherdan in

satan and nvl recommended that i start this thread.

i'm not sure anyone will have interest.

but one of the things that proves to me that the bible is accurate is the prophecies that were written before the fullfillment, in detal.

notverylikely

Whoa, let's not jump on BD. I don't want him to feel like he personally is being attacked. I respect and like him and want him to have every opportunity to present his case.

Not that I am telling anyone else what do to or accusing, I just don't want him to feel piled on.

64

Biblical Prophecies written BEFORE fulfillment

by brotherdan in

satan and nvl recommended that i start this thread.

i'm not sure anyone will have interest.

but one of the things that proves to me that the bible is accurate is the prophecies that were written before the fullfillment, in detal.

notverylikely

There were about 5 other prophecies that I was going to post here, but it's gotten ridiculous. What it comes down to is that those that don't want to believe won't. It doesn't matter what I say.

Dan, I disagree. I am very much interested in hearing your prophecies.In an earlier thread you wrote:

Hindus are wrong. JWs are wrong. Atheists are wrong. Christians are right. In an open discussion this can be proved.

This is YOUR thread to prove it. What it comes down to is that you made a claim. I am VERY interested in seeing the evidence. Do you have evidence and proof or not?

64

Biblical Prophecies written BEFORE fulfillment

by brotherdan in

satan and nvl recommended that i start this thread.

i'm not sure anyone will have interest.

but one of the things that proves to me that the bible is accurate is the prophecies that were written before the fullfillment, in detal.

notverylikely

Lets say it WAS written in the 2nd century BC, NVL. I'll conceed if you'd like.

Point conceded.

It still prophesied about when Messiah would be killed.

It did not. It did not name a person or a date. What you consider to be prophesy is a speculative chronology based on no rules given in the book for developing the chronology, IOW, you have no idea whether or not your chronology is right. Additionally, IF the timeline used in the traditional bible is the one you are following, then Jesus (I'll concede he existed as a person) would not have been killed in 32 BCE since the census that is commonly used to date his existence didn't happen as described in the Bible.

Jesus was born either before 4 BC (when Herod the Great died) or in 6 AD (when the historical Census of Quirinius was undertaken)

For one thing, I don't view wikipedia as a valid referrence work.

Since you haven't provided a SINGLE referenceable work, and I have, and we aren't in college, to bad. Wiki references it's sources and you can check them. As soon as you provide me with a reference to check, I will. You have not.

However, even in wiki, it says that the Macabees referr to Daniel. And it was written BEFORE Jesus death.

It does. The issue is that reference that you used in no way proves that it was 5-600 years old at the time of the reference.

I don't see what the issue is here. He described Jesus death and the attack on Jerusalem by the Romans in 70AD and even gave the specific dates.

Many people were crucified by the Romans. Since 70AD is a later dating invention, please show me the scripture where the Book of Daniel, using the existing Roman or Jewish Calendar, gave a date for the destruction. Speculative prophetic chronology is NOT "giving a date".

64

Biblical Prophecies written BEFORE fulfillment

by brotherdan in

satan and nvl recommended that i start this thread.

i'm not sure anyone will have interest.

but one of the things that proves to me that the bible is accurate is the prophecies that were written before the fullfillment, in detal.

notverylikely

All the available facts that we have only point to the writing taking place BEFORE Christ's time. Anything else just tries to justify HOW he got it all right when it was written before hand.

Right, but that's irrelevant with respect to prophecies you mentioned that happened such as destruction and rebuilding hundreds of years before Christ.

The argument is, "Well...it could have been altered."

No, it WAS altered.

There exists a broad consensus among scholars that the legendary stories of chapters 1-6 are almost certainly older than the visions in chapters 7-12. [81] The wide differences between the oldest manuscripts of chapters 4-6 suggests that these chapters originally circulated separately from the rest of the book and may have been transmitted orally, [82] and it is clear that the stories and visions that make up the book as we now have it were selected from a wider corpus of Daniel literature available to the author(s). [83]

Emphasis mine. Wide differences. Alterations. Changes.

64

Biblical Prophecies written BEFORE fulfillment

by brotherdan in

satan and nvl recommended that i start this thread.

i'm not sure anyone will have interest.

but one of the things that proves to me that the bible is accurate is the prophecies that were written before the fullfillment, in detal.

notverylikely

Nope. Not good enough, NVL. The book of Daniel was spoken of in Jewish works that were written in the 2nd century such as the Maccabees. It was also in the Septuagint which began to be translated in the third century bc. Also, fragments of Daniel were found among the Dead See Scrolls, which are dated around 100 BC.

Dan, you have to understand how this works. You are making the extrordinary claims. It is on you to provide the relevant supporting evidence.

For instance, you probably know this, but 165 BC WAS the 2nd century. If you want to discuss the Maccabees would be perfectly acceptable, you just NOW have to back up and show documentation on that, then show that the portions quoted are in fact the specific prophecies (not an earlier version, like what the WT does when they need to update prophecy). No one is suggesting that at least parts of Daniel aren't old, but there is no specific evidence that the specific prohecies concern that are NOT interprative are from that earlier date.

With specific regard to the Maccabees, that work is from 100BCE. Check the wiki:

The apocryphal book of Sirach, written about 180 BCE, contains a long section (chapters 44-50) in praise of "famous men" from Jewish history that does not include Daniel; I Maccabees, composed about 100 BCE, repeats much of that list with the addition of Daniel and the three youths in the fiery furnace, leading to the conclusion that these stories were added sometime after 180 BCE

Again, you are making the extraordinary claim, you must provide concrete evidence that rises to a much higher standard that speculation and interprative prophecy.

64

Biblical Prophecies written BEFORE fulfillment

by brotherdan in

satan and nvl recommended that i start this thread.

i'm not sure anyone will have interest.

but one of the things that proves to me that the bible is accurate is the prophecies that were written before the fullfillment, in detal.

notverylikely

This wasn't a vague case of what would happen. There were specific events described, Sab. 1: The order to rebuild Jerusalem, 2: The death of Messiah. Not vague like Nostradomus.

Agreed, but since there is no evidence that Daniel was written or compiled before the events happened, that doesn't mean anything. There would need to be some verifiable copy of Daniel that can accurately be dated to prior to the events it describes. We don't have that.