AussieOz, the magistrate won't make any investigations. He makes his judgment based on what evidence is presented to court. Steven has done an immense amount of work, but it still bothers me that the DPP has taken so long to come on board. If the do take it over, they could yet decide there's not enough evidence to secure a conviction (and so abandon it) or may be content that the JWs are, on paper at least, now apparently telling elders they need to get the WWC checks. I'd love to see this thing result in convictions and denunciations from a Supreme Court judge, but I still worry that it's all going to peter out through lack of government interest.
MrMonroe
JoinedPosts by MrMonroe
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89
Victoria, Australia: October 11th hearing. All five cases made it through the court...just!
by AndersonsInfo inthis is a preliminary summary only.
i hope to obtain more details later.. .
all five cases are still within the criminal justice system.
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Victoria, Australia: October 11th hearing. All five cases made it through the court...just!
by AndersonsInfo inthis is a preliminary summary only.
i hope to obtain more details later.. .
all five cases are still within the criminal justice system.
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MrMonroe
Thanks Barbara. I'm hanging out to hear the defence counsel's comments about the legal identity of the faithful and discreet slave. Since it doesn't really exist and speaks only through the medium of the Governing Body, could they describe it as the holy ghost?
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C.O. Jonsson's response to Watchtower's latest 607 articles
by wannabefree inhttp://kristenfrihet.se/vtsvar/vtsvar1.pdf.
(thanks to augustin for bringing this to our attention in another thread.
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MrMonroe
From pages 29-31 of CoC, Franz related how he researched the 607BC date for an article on Chronology in the Aid book and discovered that all historical sources contradicted the WTS position. He wrote:
"Like an attorney faced with evidence he cannot overcome, my effort was to discredit or weaken confidence in the witneses from ancient times who presented such evidence ... In themselves, the arguments I presented were honest ones, but I knpw that their intent was to uphold a date for which there was no historical support."
From page 176 he describes how Jonsson, then an elder who had done 20 years' research on the date, wrote to Brooklyn to draw its attention to the weakness of its argument. On page 199 he states that the GB was in possession of the firt 20 pages of his material. The WTS later conceded he was correct on some points about the origin of their chronological system, but as far as I can recall Franz doesn't discuss the specific reaction of the GB towards Jonsson's work.
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MrMonroe
A cheery picture for the kiddies to gaze at on a Sunday morning in the WT study.
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The Faithful and Discreet Slave - A JW Myth
by 00DAD inprobably this topic has been dealt with before, but i'm relatively new here, so perhaps y'all will be willing to indulge me in my pursuit for clarity.
regarding the anointed, the gb recently said this: .
"we thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.
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MrMonroe
The Governing Body in recent years has described itself as the "spokesman" and "representative" of the FDS, though it apparently never seeks the view of those on whose behalf it speaks. Nor, indeed, did the Governing Body ever seek the permission of the FDS to become its spokesman. (This, of course follows the pattern of Judge Rutherford, who sacked the majority of the Governing Body (board of directors) in 1917 because it tried to stop him publishing a personal opinion he believed was "new light").
The July 15, 2010 WT said doctrinal development was the role of a select few members of the FDS: "When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of 'the faithful and discreet slave' at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. The Governing Body as a whole considers adjusted explanations. What they learn, they publish for the benefit of all."
A 2009 article served as probaby the biggest slap-down for any uppity members of the slave class who thought they atually should have a role in dispensing God's "new light". In it the Watchtower said: "They do not believe that their being of the anointed gives them special insights beyond what even some experienced members of the "great crowd" may have. They do not believe that they necessarily have more holy spirit than their companions of the 'other sheep' have. They do not expect special treatment; nor do they claim that their partaking of the emblems places them above the appointed elders in the congregation." (""The faithful slave and its governing body", The Watchtower, June 15, 2009, pages 23-24) In other words, members of the FDS may think they are part of God's channel, but they'd better just shut the f*** up and obey their "spokesmen".
And yet, consider this: in the April 15, 2011 article, "Do You Discern the Evidence of God's Guidance?", the WT declared that the slave class appoints overseers in the Christian congregation. (p. 4) It directs the preaching and distributes spiritual food through articles, convention talks, letters and messages from travelling overseers (p.4,5). And, as the final paragraph of that article points out, survival into the new world depends on "humble willingness to follow God's direction" through the directions of the slave class. Obey the slave class or die.
All in all, quite a lot of contradictions that the average JW will ignore: the FDS (a) has powers to appoint overseers and is used by God to reveal new light, but (b) is never consulted and members of it are not permitted to express their view if they see things a different way.
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C.O. Jonsson's response to Watchtower's latest 607 articles
by wannabefree inhttp://kristenfrihet.se/vtsvar/vtsvar1.pdf.
(thanks to augustin for bringing this to our attention in another thread.
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MrMonroe
I've read the Jonsson piece. I won't pretend that I understand all the detail, but he gives very sound evidence that the WTS has distorted and misrepresented the views of outside experts to push their own position. I'm intrigued by his reference to the article being written in collaboration with Rolf Furuli, from Oslo, Norway. Is he a JW too?
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Criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses on WIKIPEDIA
by jakeyen inhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/criticism_of_jehovah's_witnesses.
a nice read, anyone could benefit from.
can someone update it regarding "mentally disease", maybe cedars / others can help update.
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MrMonroe
The recent thread about Carol Olaf Jonsson's dissection of the Watchtower's latest defence of its 607/1914 dating argument provides very powerful proof that the WTS routinely distorts and manipulates exteral sources to reach a predetermined conclusion. Jonsson clearly shows how they simply ignore material (often from the same authorities they quote) that disproves their case.
People accept Wikipedia for what it's worth. Despite policies that aim to limit its content to verifiable information drawn from reliable pubished sources, Wikipedia offers its own caution about the veracity of material. The Watchtower, in contrast, claims that it speaks truth that is provided to it by God. And then tells outright lies.
The Wikipedia article does, incidentally, contain reference to the latest "mentally diseased" claims. See the section on shunning.
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I am officially 'mentally diseased' by WBT$ standards!
by punkofnice inlast night whilst i was relaxing 2 elders came to my door to tell me i am officially da'd because of my 'actions'.
they weren't specific but i have been to church and telling others about the wbt$ scandals.. i was told they thought i was rude for ignoring their letters and not attending my jc.. my reply: 'you were the rude ones for sending me hounding letters when i specifically asked you never to contact me!'.
i got a 'hurumph' from the lead eldub.. i don't remember the whole conversation but they were annoyed i kept referring to the wbt$ as 'just a big business' but i told them they were on my property uninvited so they'd have to listen to my opinion and i don't have to listen to theirs.
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MrMonroe
Well done. It sets them back when you tell them they have no authority over you. It's not something they hear a lot.
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Nov.15th WT - WT Society Wants & Needs Elders- Not very High Standards
by flipper inas many of us realize- times are hard for the wt society getting men to " reach out " for an elders or ministerial servants position as young men aged ( 18-35 ) are opting out of doing that due to the pressure they are under from the wt society leaders and just that it takes up too much valuable time where men could be earning a living and helping their own families instead of a thankless magazine printing corporation.
in the article " train others to reach out " in this issue it has lots of strange, controlling, yet perplexing statements which i'm sure will confuse jw men who are considering " reaching out ".
in fact, i think this article will discourage more than encourage them from doing so.. on pg.
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MrMonroe
Showing "spirituality" in this organisation has always meant two things: fully complying with the directions coming from the hierarchy and getting your hours in. I knew elders who did that trick of doing an RV before the field service group just so they could get the clock ticking. One elder told me -- back when it seemed as though becoming an MS again was a possibility -- that I just needed to find a Bible study to boost my hours so I could qualify.
It didn't matter what research I did, or the answers I gave at meetings, or how many visits I made to RVs to teach them the troof. It didn't matter about what sort of husband or father I was, or how I tried to be a decent bloke.
It was all about the numbers on the field service slip I popped in the slot at the end of each month.
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Interesting development in Victoria: Is this where Govt acts on Working With Children Checks?
by MrMonroe inas has previousy been noted, steven unthank gave a commendable presentation to the victorian government's inquiry into protecting vulnerable children, pointing out that the watch tower society had refused to require jws to apply for working with children checks.. the victorian attorney-general seems to have taken particular notice of this and the attempts by religions -- notably the catholic church and jewish sects (both of which have been accused recently of shielding sex offenders) , but also presumably the jws -- to evade their responsibilities.
here's a story in today's age:.
catholic sex abuse inquiry on holdthe state government has put on hold a public inquiry into sexual abuse by catholic clergy, hoping some key questions can be addressed by another current inquiry into protecting vulnerable children.. state attorney-general robert clark has received at least five different calls in the past two months for an independent inquiry into the church's handling of abuse complaints.. a spokesman said yesterday the government would defer a decision until the report of the protecting victoria's vulnerable children inquiry, due on january 27.. he said the inquiry's chairman, philip cummins, had said that while it was not investigating child sexual abuse within religious bodies in general, it might report on three particular issues:.
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MrMonroe
As has previousy been noted, Steven Unthank gave a commendable presentation to the Victorian government's Inquiry into Protecting Vulnerable Children, pointing out that the Watch Tower Society had refused to require JWs to apply for Working With Children checks.
The Victorian Attorney-General seems to have taken particular notice of this and the attempts by religions -- notably the Catholic Church and Jewish sects (both of which have been accused recently of shielding sex offenders) , but also presumably the JWs -- to evade their responsibilities. Here's a story in today's Age:
Catholic Sex Abuse Inquiry on Hold
The state government has put on hold a public inquiry into sexual abuse by Catholic clergy, hoping some key questions can be addressed by another current inquiry into protecting vulnerable children.
State Attorney-General Robert Clark has received at least five different calls in the past two months for an independent inquiry into the church's handling of abuse complaints.
A spokesman said yesterday the government would defer a decision until the report of the Protecting Victoria's Vulnerable Children Inquiry, due on January 27.
He said the inquiry's chairman, Philip Cummins, had said that while it was not investigating child sexual abuse within religious bodies in general, it might report on three particular issues:
Whether mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse should be extended to clergy and church workers.
Whether the Working with Children Act 2005 should also be extended.
Whether there were "doctrines or practices in churches or religious entities in Victoria which operate to deflect or discourage reporting child abuse to secular authorities".
The spokesman said the government would await that inquiry's findings and recommendations before deciding whether there should be any further inquiry.
The five requests of which The Age is aware in the past few week come from diverse sources:
Sydney University law professor Patrick Parkinson, a leading child protection expert, called for an inquiry into the Salesians' handling of child-sex cases.
A group of more than 30 victims called for an inquiry into the Melbourne Archdiocese's complaints system.
Lawyer Vivian Waller sought an investigation into clergy abuse in Ballarat that led to at least 26 suicides.
The Care Leavers Network of Australia requested an inquiry into abuse of wards of state in homes run by the state, church and charities.
Victorian Labor MP Anne Barker has called for an inquiry similar to the one by the Irish government.
Professor Parkinson said yesterday the decision was disappointing. "There are huge issues which need to be addressed, and the Catholic Church needs to clear the air for its own sake," he said.
"As the Irish have shown and the South Africans with their Truth and Reconciliation Commission, it's better to bring things into the open. And there's an awful lot to bring out."
Ms Waller, who is representing 35 men in a class action against the Christian Brothers, said the decision was a good start, but it was important to take a historical look back at least 30 years.
"People are still suffering today from the long-term effects of abuse and families are suffering through suicide and substance abuse."
Jim Boyle, a spokesman for the Melbourne Collective of 30 victims, said it was important to look at the three issues Mr Cummins would consider, but was nowhere near as thorough an inquiry as was needed.
"There are far more issues involved, including situations where it appears people with evidence of known crimes have been deterred from going to the police," he said.