Posts by wannabe

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8
What had its beginning in the Garden of Eden?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
what had its beginning in the garden of eden?.

we know that right at its outset ancient jerusalem, was representative of the throne of jehovah, that all of his chosen kings sat on the throne of jehovah in that city.

a scripture that the governing body of jehovah's witnesses has used to back up their claim that jerusalem was the throne of jehovah, found at jeremiah 3:17 although, on the one hand, would apply to ancient jerusalem, but a close reading of that entire scripture would appear the be saying something other than what might appear to be the case.
wannabe

On the Way out! You really are arn't you? I mean, in case you miss it, "On The Way Out?" "Quote scriptures all you want, but "Jehovah" was not in any of Paul's writings." Tell me! Just whom do you think Paul was writing about in the following? If you open up your eyes wide enough, you'll see Paul made many references to Jehovah! Jehovah was the God he worshipped in imitation of God's Son, who had set the example for Paul to follow. For all to follow. Jesus made his Fathers name known. Everyone of his 12 Apostles, including Paul would have done likewise.{John 17:6,26} Sometimes when you lack accurate knowledge it does well just to sit back listen and learn. You can never hear anything, if your mouth is always in gear, and all you're doing is babbling.The babble drowns out the sounds of pure truth. So learn how to listen, on your way out, or you will be exactly that. "On your way out." Now listen to the words of Paul! You'll remember! The one you said made no mention of Jehovah. 22 "And Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus, and said, Ye men of Athens, in all things, I perceive that ye are very religious. 23 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. What therefore ye worship in ignorance, this I set forth unto you. 24 The God that made the world and all things therein, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 neither is he served by men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 and he made of one every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed seasons, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us: 28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain even of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and device of man. 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked; but now he commandeth men that they should ALL EVERYWHERE REPENT: 31 inasmuch as he hath appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD. {Acts 17:22-31NAS} -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Go to mobile site Go to the top of the page Contact us/Feedback Gospel.com Site map Privacy policy Site: Terms of use Widget: Terms of use Advertise with us
8
What had its beginning in the Garden of Eden?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
what had its beginning in the garden of eden?.

we know that right at its outset ancient jerusalem, was representative of the throne of jehovah, that all of his chosen kings sat on the throne of jehovah in that city.

a scripture that the governing body of jehovah's witnesses has used to back up their claim that jerusalem was the throne of jehovah, found at jeremiah 3:17 although, on the one hand, would apply to ancient jerusalem, but a close reading of that entire scripture would appear the be saying something other than what might appear to be the case.
wannabe

On the way out!
No Adam! No Eve! No Noah' No Ark! No Shem! No Ham! No Japheth! Our three major language groups. Now Noah can be traced right back to Adam. If Noah and his Family of three Sons and there three wives, had never stepped off that Ark, there would be no, as you title yourself: "On the way out," either. To whom then do you attribute your appearance on this earth to, now, at this time? From where exactly do you trace your family line to? I mean, Come on! It had to have a beggining from some source. Or do you believe you are a happy accident? Maybe you just may be correct! You are "on your way out," but just don't have the smarts enough to see that either! Wannabe
8
What had its beginning in the Garden of Eden?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
what had its beginning in the garden of eden?.

we know that right at its outset ancient jerusalem, was representative of the throne of jehovah, that all of his chosen kings sat on the throne of jehovah in that city.

a scripture that the governing body of jehovah's witnesses has used to back up their claim that jerusalem was the throne of jehovah, found at jeremiah 3:17 although, on the one hand, would apply to ancient jerusalem, but a close reading of that entire scripture would appear the be saying something other than what might appear to be the case.
wannabe

What had its beginning in the Garden of Eden?
We know that right at its outset ancient Jerusalem, was representative of the Throne of Jehovah, that all of his chosen Kings sat on the Throne of Jehovah in that City. A scripture that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses has used to back up their claim that Jerusalem was the Throne of Jehovah, found at Jeremiah 3:17 although, on the one hand, would apply to ancient Jerusalem, but a close reading of that entire scripture would appear the be saying something other than what might appear to be the case. As in the new Jerusalem that would come to be under the New Law Covenant established on the Blood of the Christ. I'm not going to say, one way or the other. But I have some serious doubts about their understanding of that scripture, even though I can't myself say anything different one way or the other at this time. We do know though All of Jehovah's chosen Kings sat on his Throne in ancient Jerusalem:
"did eat and drink before Jehovah on that day with great gladness. And they made Solomon the son of David king the second time, and anointed him unto Jehovah to be prince, and Zadok to be priest. 23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of Jehovah as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him. 24 And all the princes, and the mighty men, and all the sons likewise of king David, submitted themselves unto Solomon the king."{2 Chronicles 29:22-24 ASV} 17 "At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of Jehovah;
and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of Jehovah, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the stubbornness of their evil heart." {Jeremaih 3:17 ASV}
Let me point out why I have serious doubts about whether they are applying this scripture correctly or not. First notice ALL the Nations are being gathered to the name of Jehovah. Under the Mosaic Law there was no provision for any of the Nations outside of the Jewish Nation. The Nations out side of the old law were not considered until the New Covenant was established. None of the surrounding Nations were taken into the old Law Covenant. Then the point that they would no longer walk after the stubborness of their own evil heart. The early Jews were condemned by Jesus as being snakes and vipers, and as a Nation were cast off. They turned out be a Nation of murderers. Their house Jesus said was abandoned to them. Their house was the Temple where they worshipped Jehovah. So, Jeremiah couldn't have been speaking about earthly Jerusalem in this instance. It doesn't fit! That's why I have my doubts. {Amos 3:1,2} {Psalm 147:19,20} {Romans 3:1,2} {Matthew 28:19,20}
My belief now, is Jeremiah was talking about Heavenly New Jerusalmen, that takes in all the Nations, where they have Jehovah's Laws put within them and written in their hearts, and they become God's People, and Jehovah becomes their God. Now! That fits perfectly! {Jeremiah 31:31-33} Now they will not walk after the stubborness of their hearts. While those early Jews were an encouragingly wicked Nation. That could not be healed. So said the writer of Chronicles. {2 Chronicles 36:16} Jesus himself condemned that Nation with his words at Matthew 23:33-38} Now were dealing with a New Jerusalem altogether, and this is the one luke was making reference to when he made this following statement, and it couldn't be anything else BUT New Jerusalem, Luke was talking about:
24"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of [the] nations until [the] times of [the] nations be fulfilled." {Luke 21:24 DT}
Now it's a matter of determining what this trampling signified! They were not trampling on an actual City were they? But they were trampling on something that City represented. What actually was that? When did it begin? How long would it be allowed to go on? With what event would it end? Now forget all about the Seven Times Prophecy of Daniel 4:16 because it had absolutely nothing to do with this trampling. Even though the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society will tell you otherwise. They are dead wrong in their calculations, and because of teaching that lie, will end up just dead.
Everyone knows that Adam's Wife Eve had listened to the voice of satan the devil, and was misled by him to eat of the Tree they both were told not to touch. Now coming under his power and control, blinded and misled by him. On the other hand, the man Adam was not misled, he merely followed the lead of his Wife Eve, and listened to her voice. But what was the situation prior to their violating Jehovah's Command? {1 Timothy 2:14}
The Apostle Paul tells us that Jehovah is the King of Eternity, the Divine Sovereign of the Universe. {1 Timothy 1:17} Faithful Abraham referred to Jehovah, as: "Sovereign Lord Jehovah." {Genesis 15:1-3} Isaiah the Prophet made mention of something the pair in the garden failed to appreciate, when he wrote: "Jehovah is our judge, Jehovah is our statute giver, Jehovah is our King." {Isaiah 33:2
We are all familiar with the command Jehovah laid upon the Man Adam, not to touch the Tree of the knowledge of good and bad. {Genesis 2:16,17} As well,we are also familar with the death sentence Jehovah had passed on to Adam, because of which death sentence, sin and death would be passed on to all Mankind due to the fact that the entire human race would stem from the loins of Adam. {Genesis 3:19} {Romans 5:12}
When Jehovah passed sentence on satan devil, he showed us by his words to satan, that the situation that now prevailed, would continue, until the seed of the promise would arrive, and for sometimes there-after.
But what situation was it that now prevailed? To begin with Jehovah was the ruling King of the pair in that Garden. He was thier Judge, Lawgiver Statute Giver and King as Isaiah has told us. Jehovah, was their Sovereign Ruling King, but satan had usurped Jehovah`s High Offices, by countermanding a clear command, by telling Eve: "You will not surly die." In direct contradiction to Jehovah`s own words: "in the day you eat from it you will positively die."
In the sentence Jehovah passed on satan the devil, he shows us by that sentence, that he allows a grant of time to all the Nations for a specific purpose; that is to carry out his promise to faithful Abraham.
That promise is as follows: {Genesis 3:19}
17 "I will richly bless thee, and greatly multiply thy seed, as the stars of heaven, and as the sand that is on the sea-shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves, because thou hast hearkened to my voice." {Genesis 22:17,128 DT}
The Apostle Paul will explain just who that promised seed was:
16 "But to Abraham were the promises addressed, and to his seed: he does not say, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed; which is Christ." {Galatians 3:16 DT}
Right from the Garden of Eden, Jehovah has with-held himself from interferring in the affairs of mankind; accept for two occasions when wickedness had developed to such a state he had no choice but to intervene, and bring it to an end. I make reference now to the global flood and the destruction that came on ancient Sodom and Gomorra. Then too, he did allow the destruction of his Throne City in Jerusalem. {Genesis 6:13;19:4,5,13} In the case of Sodom and Gommora, from Boy to old Man they were sexual perverts, who even wanted to rape the two angels Jehavah had sent to destroy those two Cities. They were well past all moral sense. They needed wiping out, so Jehovah did exactly that.
Consider too when the Seed of the promise to Abraham did arrive he foretold the destruction that was to come upon those early Jews, and General Titus leading the Roman Army in 70 AD fulfilled the words of Jesus right down to the letter. For exactly as Jesus had foretold 'not a stone was left upon a stone, and not thrown down' when Titus was through with that slaughter; even down to tearing up Ten miles of Forest Land to build a Wall around Jerusalem, of pointed stakes, as Jesus foretold would occur There was no way in, no way out. Look at the accuracy of the words of Jesus:
41"And as He approached, He saw the city, and He wept audibly] over it, 42 Exclaiming, Would that you had known personally, even at least in this your day, the things that make for peace for freedom from all the distresses that are experienced as the result of sin and upon which your peace--your security, safety, prosperity, and happiness--depends)! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43For a time is coming upon you when your enemies will throw up a bank [with pointed stakes] about you and surround you and shut you in on every side. 44And they will dash you down to the ground, you [Jerusalem] and your children within you; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, [all] because you did not come progressively to recognize and know and understand [from observation and experience] the time of your visitation [that is, when God was visiting you, the time in which God showed Himself gracious toward you and offered you salvation through Christ]."{Luke 19:41-44 AB}
Do some research on the Arch of Titus, and you will learn some are completely amazed at the accuracy of the words of Jesus, because it was fulfilled in exact detail. Right down to the letter!
Keep in mind now, the position satan took for himself in the garden of Eden. By countermanding Jehovah's clear words to the pair, he had set himself up as 'god of the World,' and re-directed the Worship that belonged solely to Jehovah, it was now, rather directed to him, as god of this World. Now all the World came under his power and control, and would be blinded and misled by him, just as Eve was. The Bible fully supports what I'm saying here! {1 John 5:19} {2 Corinthians 4:3,4} {Revelation 12:9} That condition, unhappily, has been going on since the fall of Adam, in that garden. satan, has been, throughout all of that time period, until now, trampling on the King of Eternity, and his position as Sovereign Ruler of the Universe, and Jehovah has allowed that to be the case for good reasons. Paul has something to say about that:
16 "In the past, he let all nations go their own way.17 Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy." {Acts 14:16 NIV} Even though he has allowed satan to hold the position he holds, and it's very difficult to see Jehovah's hand in much anymore, Jehovah's Kindness can be seen in the rain and in the bountilful crops that feed all mankind, and in the rain that makes them produce and sprout. To keep us all nourished and well fed. Paul shows us even more than that though, in these following words:
20 "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."{Romans 1:20 NIV}
For those that have ever visited a Planatarium and have peered through one of those giant Telescopes at the Stars and Planets; you'll remember seeing something so beautful, and awe inspiring as to take your breath away. There's design and order on a scale, the like of which is beyond human comprehension. Then when we consider the temperature of the Sun being at 27 Million degrees farenheit at its core; the power behind that is unimaginable. Where there's design and order and power as complex as what we view from the lense of that Telescope it be-speaks a God of intelligence so awesome in power even beyond our ability to understand. Even well beyond the wickedness we see in our World that satan has caused, if we look closely enough, we have a view of Jehovah, that is so beautiful, its almost impossible to describe in human terms. Merely that view alone unseats the devil from his self chosen Throne. All we have to do, is look very closely, at the witness Jehovah has left for us all to view of him. As we view what Jehovah has given us all, to see of him, we view a great love for his human creation, at the same time, do we not? But there's a love he displayed for us all that's not all that easy to comprehend with the naked eye, but requires digging deeply into his Holy Word, to get the sense of. That particular love he displayed in his words to satan the devil when he passed sentence upon him. Note those words now:
15 "And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."{Genesis 3:15 NIV}
At first glance, there wouldn't appear to be any love manifested in those words, especially since it meant, when fulfilled, his only Son would die because he spoke them. Not only his Son, but many of his Sons companions as well. That doesn't really sound very loving now does it? Truth be told, there was the greatest love anyone could ever imagine behind those words. For when fulfilled to completion, the devil would lose his life, at the hands of the promised Seed of Jehovah's Heavenly Woman; as we know, was the Christ.
It's not my intention to deal with the entire line of Abraham's descendents, through which the promised Seed would eventually come; just to say this Seed would come through the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as well, many others. This would take thousands of years from the day Jehovah spoke these words to satan, and throughout all of that time period until the Christ finally arrived that seed was being being prepared. Because of the foretold enmity that was to exist between the two seeds, many of Jehovah's followers would live a Hell on earth, right up to the appearance of Christ in Kingdom Power. But why was Jehovah tolerating this brutal treatment of his faithful worshippers? It almost seemed to be unfair, didn't it? It really wasn't. His Worshippers understood the issue that had to be settled once and for all, and all of them looked forward to the payment of the reward that they knew was to come. {Hebrews 11:10,13,25, 27,32-40} {Matthew 24:9}
Pleasing Jehovah was their hearts desire. They understood what Jehovah was doing, and why it would take so long. They knew there was a great act of love behind what Jehovah was doing; as Paul will explain what that act was:
22 "It is the same way with God. He wanted to show his anger and to let people see his power. But he patiently stayed with those people he was angry with—people were made ready to be destroyed.23 He waited with patience so that he could make known his rich glory to the people who receive his mercy. He has prepared these people to have his glory,24 and we are those people whom God called. He called us not from the Jews only but also from those who are not Jews." {Romans 9: 22-24 NCV}
All these many Centuries Jehovah, at any given time could have showed Mankind a display of Power so great, Mankind would have been shocked senseless. But he remains still! He keeps quiet! Why? Because he not only wanted to save some from among the Jews, but also those who were not Jews. So for the sake of those he has held his anger in check. He's been exercising patience, and self control, for all these many Centuries, when he could have at any given moment in time he saw fit, wiped the whole business out in the blink of an eye. By simply withdrawing the life-giving force of life from all mankind. {Job 34:14,15,20} {Isaiah 42:14}
So, right from the Garden of Eden Jehovah has allowed all of the Nations to go on in their own ways, without interfering with any of them. Being as satan is god of this world, all of the Nations worship satan the devil, and give worship that solely belongs to Jehovah, to satan the devil. So, satan along with a World under his power and control, misled, and blinded by him, trample on the King of eternity! The Divine Sovereign of all the Universe. That trampling began in the garden of Eden and will not end until the god of this World is chained and abyssed. Right now! That trampling is still in progress, because satan is still the 'god of this World,' and cannot end until he is put in chains, and abyssed. {Revelation 20:1-3}
The Nations are still going on in their own ways- so the appointed times of the Nations Luke spoke about, are still in progress. What Luke was speaking about did not begin counting in 607 BCE! Did not run for a period of 2,520 Years! Did not end in the year 1914- {Luke 21:24}
Surprise! Surprise! Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses!
The Prophecy concerning the appointed times of the Nations, as mentioned by Luke, as we see, did not end in 1914! That being the case, they did not begin counting in 607 BCE, nor did they they end in 1914 - And the Governing Body is 'Spirit directed?'
The question is: Whose Spirit is directing them?
Now this will sound like I'm contradicting myself, but I do agree those times Luke spoke about did begin counting in 607 BCE! They did run for a period of 2,520 years! Tbey did land on the year 1914! The question is, what significant event did they land on? This next scripture will show what that event was, and it wasn't the end of anything, it was the beginning of something.
"Then I witnessed in heaven an event of great significance. I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant, and she cried out because of her labor pains and the agony of giving birth."{Revelation 12:1,2 NLT}
What that event was, Jehovah's Heavenly Woman was beginning to display her early signs of labor pains, crying out in her agony to give birth. Jesus showed us what all of those labor pains were pictured by, when he gave the composite sign of his coming into kingdom power. We are all familar with everything he foretold would be going on during the last days of this system of things. Things such as Wars and rumors of Wars! Earthquakes! Famine! Pestilence! Plagues! Icreasing lawlessness! Loss of love among the people of the World. A range of things, that pictured those labor pains. He told us that even when the complete sign was in evidence, he would only be near, at the very doors; but even then not here as yet. Note these words of Jesus on this matter:
32 "Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches bud and its leaves begin to sprout, you know that summer is near. 33 In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door. "{Matthew 24:32,33 NLT}
Did we learn the lesson Jesus was talking about that we should, that he'd expect us to? Think about what the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society is telling all of their flocks; that the Christ was crowned King of God's Kingdom, in the year 1914 and from that year has been invisibly present. Jesus here has flat out contradicted their teaching! Now isn't that very strange for an Organization that professes to be the anointed Brothers of the Christ, to have their master, so-called, more, or less, calling them all liars? How can he, afterall, be invisibly present if he's only at the doors even when all the composite sign is in evidence? That sign isn't even yet all in evidence.
So, the Prophecy of the seven times, has no bearing on the appointed times of the Nations Luke was making reference to at all. I think I have clearly shown that to be the case. Luke reference was to the Jerusalem above, Heavenly New Jerusalem, and as long as he [satan] holds the position as god of this World, holding it all in his power, blinding and misleading Mankind that trampling on divine sovereignty will contiue to go on until he is chained and abyssed for the Thousand year period, and he can no longer mislead the Nations any longer. Nor trample on Jehovah's Divine Sovereignty, as he did in the Garden of Eden. As all Mankind has done since then, and even today Jehovah allows the Nations 'to go on in their own ways,' and continue to trample on divine sovereignty. No one knows though when this trampling will end. No one can supply a date for its beginning, nor can they tell us how long it will run. Only Jehovah knows the answers to those questions. {Matthew 24:36}
So! What had its beginning in the Garden of Eden? The trampling of the king of Eternitys position as Sovereign Ruler of the Universe. Wannabe
2
Who are the Chosen Ones? Where are they now?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
who are the chosen ones?

we know that when jesus gave the sign that would be occurring throughout the period known as the last days, he foretold many false prophets and told us not to believe or follow any one of them.

among these false prophets he foretold one that would resemble so closely the true chosen ones, that they might possibly misdlead even the ones who actually were of that number.
wannabe

Who are the Chosen Ones? Where are they now?
We know that when Jesus gave the sign that would be occurring throughout the period known as the last days, he foretold many false Prophets and told us not to believe or follow any one of them. Among these false Prophets he foretold one that would resemble so closely the true chosen ones, that they might possibly misdlead even the ones who actually were of that number. Note the words of Jesus on this: {Mark 13-Luke 21}
24 "for there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen." {Matthew 24:24 YLT}
This begets the question: "How many religions are there in the world from which to locate the "true" one?"
"According to David Barrett and team, there are 19 major world religious groupings in the world which are subdivided into a total of about 10,000 distinct religions. Of the latter, there were 270 religions and para-religions which had over a half million adherents in the year 2000 CE. Within Christianity, they have identified 34,000
separate , etc) in the world. "Over half of them are independent churches that are not interested in linking with the big denominations." 1groups (denominations, sects, individual unaffiliated churches, para-church groups
With
such a vast array of Religious Bodies to choose from none of us would know exactly where these ones are now, now would we? Is there anyone who would know though? Yes! There is, as we'll learn from Matthew: Note these next words:
29 "Right after the terrible suffering of those days,
" 'The sun will be darkened.
The moon will not shine.
The stars will fall from the sky.
The heavenly bodies will be shaken.' —(Isaiah 13:10; 34:4)
30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. All the nations on earth will be sad. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky. He will come with power and great glory. 31 He will send his angels with a loud trumpet call. They will gather his chosen people from all four directions. They will bring them from one end of the heavens to the other." {Matthew 24:29-31 NIRV}
Matthew not only tells us where they are, he tells us at what time period they all will be gathered. We notice this is done after the Tribulation has been cut short! That had to be done to save their lives. {Matthew 24:22} Also when the Christ actually does take Kingdom power. Notice too, they are not all gathered together as a body at one location, such as in Brooklyn New York, where the offices of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is located. Or the Vatican! Or with any of Christendom's great system of relgion. Jesus will skirt them all entirely!They will be dealt with at Aramageddon, much to their sorrow. The reason being, they are the ones who are the false prophets among them all; one, who might possibly mislead the true chosen ones. Of course that would be the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. The one who claims to be of the Chosen Ones, but in actuality is not!
So, we've learned exactly where they are, but we still don't know who they are, do we? Does the Bible supply us with any identifying charactistics of these one that might aid us in identitying them? As we might expect, it does!
I made mention that the gathering of the true Chosen Ones, takes place when the Christ takes Kingdom Power; but just prior to that gathering work there was a War in heaven with satan and his demons being thrown down to this earth; and what do you think his first act will be at that time? John will explain that:
7 "Then War broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon. The dragon and his angels also fought, 8 but he could not prevail, and there was no place for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was thrown out—the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the one who deceives the whole world. He was thrown to earth, and his angels with him." Revelation 12:7-9 HCSB}
17"And the dragon was angry with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus." {Revelation 12:17 DFT}
We notice that there is a few remaining ones of the SEED of Jehovah's Heavenly Woman still alive on this earth at this time. satan's first act is to go off and wage war with them. Beginning the persecution Jesus Foretold would come upon his true followers at the time of his coming into Kingdom Power. This persecution was part of the sign Jesus gave to identify the time period that would see him come into Kingdom Power. Take note of the words of Jesus on this very thing:
9"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and ¨will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. "{Matthew 24:9 NASB
We know for a fact that all the Nations are made up out of Christendom`s great system of Religion; we know too, the seed of Jehovah`s Heavenly Woman had the work of bearing witness to Jesus. This Witness work condemned all of the established Religions, as well as all of their followers, and in murderous rage they all attack the the true Chosen Ones just Prior to Christ final arrival. It will be their last attack, and the end of the foretold enmity Jehovah foretold in the Garden of Eden; when he said to satan these following words:
"I will put enmity Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head,15 And And you shall bruise him on the heel." ``Genesis 3:15 NASB
We know, that at his crucifiction the Christ received the heel wound, but the Christ will deliver a fatal head-wound to satan when these following words are fulfilled:
7 "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."{Revelation 20:7-10 NIV}
So, the first original hater of the seed of the heavenly Woman, will get his just deserts, as we see; but what about all of those that constitute his seed? Will they fare any better than satan?
Not from what I read they will not! Looks like we must make choices! What is it we want?
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." {Matthew 25:31-46 NI
Have we learned who these ones are? I would say, Yes! We have! The ones who, like their Master, was hated and persecuted and hounded to death by the seed of satan the devil, who just prior to the final arrival of the Christ will be murdered and persecuted and jailed, by the seed of satan the devil, the goat class reserved for the lake of fire and sulpher. Not too difficult a job to tell them apart, when the Christ finally arrives. He'll have no trouble doing that. Should we?
One thing we do know for certain; although right at this present moment in time, it's very difficult to distinguish the sheep from the goats, or if you will, the wheat from the weeds, but it's an absolute certainty, that none from the entire realm of Religious Christendom, are the true seed of the Heavenly Woman, with their Billions of adherents, due to the fact that only a few remaining ones of the true seed are alive on this earth, at this time. The Bible doesn't allow for the many Billions associated with the Churchs of Christendom; but it does allow for the many associated with them, that are on that broad road to destuction. {Matthew 7:13,14;13:24-30 - 36-43} We have choices! What's yours? {Matthew 25:41}
To even merely suggest that any of the long established Religions on this earth would represent the Seed of Jehovah's Heavenly Woman, would be a slap in his face that I feel absolutely certain he'd want to deliver back to the one suggesting it. Make no mistake about that, he certainly will when the due time comes for it.
Now, we know where they are, and when the foretold persecution breaks out we'll also know exactly who they are...
For now, we know who are not the Chosen Ones
... That will be sufficient for us until the foretold hatred and persecution breaks out, at which time there'll be no doubt as to who they really are, and at the same time, where they are. Wannabe
14:30:17
We'll find we're faced with a Neddle in a Hay-Stack, as you'll see:
11
Christs invisible Presence! When would it begin?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
in his fathers eyes he was already a ruling king.

17"as it is written: "i have made you a father of many nations.

god exalted him to the highest place.
wannabe

Wantingtruth!
I forgot too mention wanting truth! Speaking about why the Christ didn't exercise his authority in heaven, was for, as I already told you, it wasn't the time for him to do that until he actually became a ruling King! When he did, then the thousand year reign would begin, with his priestly class of anounted Brothers who would rule with him as king priests.
His authority would begin, as I said, when he actually came. Then his authority would begin and he'd hold that authority for the entire thousand year period at the end of which time, all things would be restored back to its natural order; and he'd hand everything back to his Father, so that Jehovah then would become all things to everyone, as Paul told us at 1 Corinthians 15:24-28} Don't neglect reading that scripture by Paul
Don't forget wanting, that was the whole pupose for the sacrifice of the Christ. Adam had lost the Life of the World, he had lost the paradise earth. Everything he lost was bought back by the Christ. That was the whole purpose of the thousand year reign. To bring everything back to its natural order, at the end of which time the Christ would hand everything back to his Father, and then everything would be as it was in the Garden of Eden when the Man Adam and his Wife Eve were first put there.
Read the following words of Johns Revelation and you will learn just when the Christ begins exercising his authority. That he will hold for the thousand year period. This is when the Christ will arrive: The scripture speaks for itself:
"Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
12Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."{Revelation 12:10-12 NIV}
11
Christs invisible Presence! When would it begin?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
in his fathers eyes he was already a ruling king.

17"as it is written: "i have made you a father of many nations.

god exalted him to the highest place.
wannabe

Wantingtruth!
Here's a little truth for you wanting: Read Psalm 110:1,2 Jehovah had told Jesus: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a stool for your feet." That's why Jesus wouldn't use his authority in heaven. He was too busy obeying his Fathers command to "SIT." He wouldn't "STAND UP" until told to. Daniel 12:1 "Go Subuduing in the midst of your enemies." Were the words he is waiting to hear, before becoming operational as Ruling King. Wannabe
11
Christs invisible Presence! When would it begin?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
in his fathers eyes he was already a ruling king.

17"as it is written: "i have made you a father of many nations.

god exalted him to the highest place.
wannabe

Christs Invisible Presence! When would it begin?
No One will argue that Jehovah hasn't always been, himself, invisibly present with Mankind! Certainly, according to his following words, the Apostle Paul would never argue that:
17"Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever." Amen. {1 Timothy 1:17 NIV}
So, Jehovah is invisibly present at all times, but because of his invisibility cannot be seen by the naked eye, being as he is also a Spirit being, dwelling in the Spirit realm. {John 4:24}
It is common knowledge today among Bible Students that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, believe and teach that the Christ was crowned King of God's Kingdom in 1914, and only since that year he has been invisibly present. They will go to great lengths to prove the Christ was invisibly present in that year, by presenting their interpretation of the seven times Prophecy at Daniel 4:16 which they tell us began counting in the year 607 BCE ran for a period of 2,520 years and ended in the year 1914 with the ending of the appointed times of the Nations, and the enthronement in that year of the King of God's Kingdom. To them, now the Christ was invisibly present in Kingdom power.
If by some method that reasoning can be proven wrong, then everything they teach for the year 1914 that they say occured, has not occured at all.
We know that even after Jesus was resurrected from the dead, he had not yet been glorified, as John tells us the case was:
39"By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified." {John 7:39NIV}
That had yet to be done at his ascension, by his Father as John shows us:
31 "When he was gone, Jesus said, "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. 32 If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once." {John 13:31,32 NIV} Jesus last prayer to his Father would of course be answered at his ascension. Note the prayer:
5"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."{John 17:5 NIV}
Don't let this point slip by unnoticed! When Jesus WAS Glorified he was now once again in the presence of the Father. Right there with him, in his glorified position at his Fathers right hand. Something else though had occured at his ascenion. What was that, you may ask? The following:
33"Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear." {Acts 2:33 NIV}
Being now exalted to his Fathers right hand, what might his Fathers view of him be at that time? In his Fathers eyes he was already a ruling King. He didn't have to wait until 1914 until he could form that view now did he? He was the one who decreed that his Christ would be the Ruling King, and if anyone knew all of the words he spoke would be fulfilled, he certainly would have. He could call something that was not as though it already were, could he not? The Apostle Paul thought so. Note the words of Paul concerning this" {Isaiah 55:10-11}
17"As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were." {Romans 4:17 NIV} Not only in his eyes was his Christ merely invisibly present, he was already a ruling King. Why was it that his Apostle's didn't understand many things prior to his ascension? Luke will answer that for us:
16"At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him."{John 12:16 NIV}
40 "When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43and he took it and ate it in their presence. 44 he said to them, "This is what I told you when I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." Then he opened their minds so they could understand the scriptures
."{Luke 24: 40-45 NIV}
"{Luke 24: 40-45 NIV}
26For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest,holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;" {Hebrews 7:26 NASB}
What now was the exalted position of the Christ? How highly was he exalted by his Father? The writer Matthew will tell us that:
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." {Matthew 28:18 NIV} The Apostle Paul will take this exaltation even a step further, as we'll learn now: Quite a big step too as you'll see:
18 "I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way." {Ephesians 1:18-22 NIV}
That of course should be quite sufficient to make my point, but there's even more to come, as you'll see:
5 "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. {Philippians 2:5-11 NIV}
Paul's words in Ephesians and Philippians say it all, do they not?
Ever since his ascension the Christ has held the highest office anyone could ever imagine! God exalted him to the highest place. From his position at his Fathers right hand, he is above all rule and authority, and every title that can be given, in this present age and that to come, and his Father has placed everything under his feet, and he is the appointed head over the Church. He holds all authority in heaven and on earth, because his Father has decreed that to be the case.
That situation has prevailed ever since his ascension in the first Century, right up until today, and will continue on forever. The words of the Psalmist apply quite nicely at this point:
1"The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet." 2The LORD will stretch forth Your strong scepter from Zion, saying,"Rule in the midst of Your enemies." {Psalm 110:1,2 NASB}
No one has known it! Very probably no one will accept it, but Jesus has been ruling in the midst of his enemies ever since his ascension in the first Century; all he awaits now, is the command from his Father, when the strong septer is stretched forth from Zion, and the Father will tell Jesus, to, "Go subuing in the midst of your enemies." That will be at Armageddon, which was to come like a thief in the night. It could never have come like a Thief in the Night, if Jesus was known to be invisibly present in 1914, already crowned King of God's Kingdom. {Revelation 3:3;16:15} {2 Peter 3:10} {1 Thessalonians 5:2}
Just as the Father has been invisibly present for Centuries now, so, to, now the Christ, seated beside his Father since the first Century; he too has been invisibly present from the first Century onward. What does all of this show? It shows that Daniel's Prophecy concerning the Seven Times, was not talking about the appointed times of the Nations. The count of time the Governing Body has calculated to begin in 607 BCE is correct. The length of of time they say as to being 2,520 years is correct. Ending in 1914 is correct. What they believe the significance of the ending those times to be is incorrect. They did not end the appointed times of the Nations. Those times are still running now.
They did not signify the War in heaven had been fought with satan and his demons cast down and the Woe that would cause for the earth had begun. As I have shown they did not signify the Invisible presence of Christ; as I have shown, he's been there all along, but 'God's Spirit Directed Organization' as they claim to be, wasn't able to see it. They did not see that World 1 was not the fulfillment of Matthew 24:7 - Everything they believe and teach for that year is in seriously flawed. They cannot, or, more probably, will not, see that it is.
When Jesus was glorified in the presence of his Father, his invisible presence began, and unless they can find a way to count those times of Daniel, as to have taken place 2,520 years before the ascension of the Christ, there in for a whole pile of trouble, because I already know that cannot be done.
From here it's merely a matter of logical reasoning. We know that Jehovah is always present among mankind even though he cannot be seen with the literal eye. We know too, he is the King of eternity, the invisible God, as Paul told us. We have learned that his Father had seated him [Jesus] at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, that he was exalted above the heavens as Paul said:
26"For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; {Hebrews 7:26 NASB} That Jesus held all authority in heaven and on earth, no one was equal to him in station, only his Father was above him in power and authority; Jesus was second in command, at his Fathers right hand. Now, his Father is invisible and yet present at all times; now Jesus too is invisible in the position at his Fathers right hand, yet like his Father is, he too is present now at all times. What we must consider now is at what point in time did Jesus gain this exalted position, where he had gained all this rule that was above all rule and authority? Above every title that can be given, by being exalted above the heavens? It was when he ascended in the first Century wasn't it?
Common sense now tells us Jesus has been invisibly present ever since the first Century, when he ascended back to his Fathers right hand and given all of that ruling power and authority by his Father. When he was exalted above the heavens.
How can we back that up by scripture, for that is what we must do, in order to prove true what I'm saying? An easy matter:
1"The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne."{Revelation 3:21 ESV} Notice first. Jesus is seated on his Fathers Throne!
9"And they sing a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open its seals; because thou hast been slain, and hast redeemed to God, by thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation, 10 and made them to our God kings and priests; and they shall reign over the earth." {Revelation 5:9,10 DT}
6 "Blessed and holy he who has part in the first resurrection: over these the second death has no power; but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." {Revelation 20:6 DT}
Notice the point being drawn out here. Those that are allowed to be seated with the Christ on his Throne must be conquerers, just as Jesus conquered. When they are admitted to that position they become King Priests to rule with him for the thousand years. So, as soon as they take their poition on the throne with Jesus, they are now all Kings. Jesus took his position beside his Father on his Throne at his ascension in the first Century. That is when Jesus became King of God's Kingdom. Why so long a wait? The Psalmist will explain that:
1"The LORD {JEHOVAH} says to my Lord {JESUS} "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet." 2The LORD {JEHOVAH} will stretch forth Your strong scepter from Zion saying,"Rule in the midst of Your enemies."{Psalm 110:1,2 NASB}
This is what Jesus has been waiting for ever since his ascension. The time when his Father makes his enemies a footstool for his feet and issues the command to him to "Go! "Rule in the midst of your enemies."When Jesus hears that command the long wait will be over. He will at that time become an active ruling King of God's Kingdom.
So, the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses claim that Jesus invisible presence came in the year 1914 is about as rediculous as it can get, and clearly shows to any astute observer, they are no more 'Jehovah's Spirit Directed Organization' any more than satan the devil is.
If anyone is wondering with what event the seven time prophecy actually landed on, let me now show you what that was, and it wasn't the end of the appointed times of the Nations at all, as you'll see:
1 "Then I witnessed in heaven an event of great significance. I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant, and she cried out because of her labor pains and the gony of giving birth." {Revelation 12:1,2 NLT}
It landed on the Birth of the Kingdom! Or I should say, Jehovah's Heavenly Woman was only now showing her early labor pains, but they had just only begun, as Jesus will explain what those labor pains pictured:
3 Later, Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and said, "Tell us, when will all this happen? What sign will signal your return and the end of the world?" 4 Jesus told them, "Don’t let anyone mislead you, 5 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’ They will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and threats of wars, but don’t panic. Yes, these things must take place, but the end won’t follow immediately. 7 Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world." {Matthew 24:3-7NLT}
Notice first in time were Wars and Rumors of Wars, Jesus said don't panic, that had to happen, but the end was not yet - Don't make the mistake the Governing Body makes, They believe that World War 1&2 were the fullfillment of Matthew 24:7 with 'Nation against Nation and Kingdom agaianst Kingdom'- Although it looked it was, it really wasn't! That was to come very close to the end, fulfilling Daniels Prophecy at Daniel 12:1 the time of World peril that would lead right into Armageddon.
Ever since 1914 we have had Wars and rumors of Wars, even now Wars are going on all around our World in various Countries, but the end is still not yet. These Wars were merely the beginning of labor pains, and were mentioned first in time, with much more to come, as Jesus told us:
"But all this is only
the first of the birth pains, with more to come." {Matthew 24:8 NLT}
The Governing Body will tell us that the Tribulation Jesus Spoke about and the time of World peril Daniel spoke about were the same tribulations, but they were not. Remember this, the tribulation Jesus foretold had to be 'cut short' to save the lives of the chosen ones, and it will be, because they are all with him at Armageddon, while Daniels time of World peril is in progress. But Daniels World Peril will lead to the fulfillment of Jeremiah's Prophecy when a great storm sweeps this earth, when the entire empire of false Religions falls, and Jehovah involves himself. It will be then that Matthew 24:7 is fulfilled along with Exekiels Prophecy when the Sword of every Man is turned against his own Brother, and all Hell breaks loose on this earth. Daniels time of World Peril is not cut short, it's allowed to run the full course and abruptly halted by Armageddon. {Revelation 16:13-16; 17:14} {Matthew 24:22} {Daniel 12:1} {Jeremiah 25:31-37} {Ezekiel 38:21-23}
More substantiating proof that Jesus was not invisibly present as crowned King in 1914 as the Governing Body views his invisible presence also will show that they shouldn't even be looking for him to be invisibly present; they should only be looking for his coming, as a thief upon all mankind when they least expect him.
Do what Jesus here tells you to do! Notice the Fig Tree!
29 Then he gave them this illustration: "Notice the fig tree, or any other tree. 30 When the leaves come out, you know without being told that summer is near. 31 In the same way,when you see all these things taking place, you can know that the Kingdom of God is near." {Luke 21:29-31 NLT}
28 "Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches bud and its leaves begin to sprout, you know that summer is near. 29 In the same way, you see all these things taking place, you can know that his return is very near, right at the door. 30 I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass from the scene before all these things take place." {Mark 13:28-30 NLT}
So, when the Heavenly Womans labor pains became so severe, when all the things Jesus foretold were in evidence, his return would be near, at the doors, but even then not here quite yet.
Now we know, he's been invisibly present ever since his ascension, so he had to be talking about his final arival in Kingdom Power established as the reigning King of God's Kingdom. This, according to the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society in their Publication, "You can live forever in paradise on earth," has already occured. On Page 141 Paragraph 21 we read: "This means that Jesus Christ began to rule as King of God's heavenly Government in 1914." Think about now what Jesus had told us about the Fig Tree or all the other Trees, using that illustration Jesus was telling us, as in late summer we see all the Trees in bloom, so too with the composite sign he gave of his coming; when the entire sign was in evidence, he would be NEAR AT THE DOORS but even then not quite here. It would be right on top of us, no doubt, but as yet, even then, he was not crowned King. So neither was he invisibly present, as they view he was present, in invisibility, nor had he yet arrived in Kingdom Power. The Reasonings of the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society are so seriously flawed, it's almost laughable.
How far along is that Heavenly Womans Pregnancy right at this very moment, in time? When will the model prayer be answered? "Let your Kigdom Come!" "At a Time you think it not to be it, the Son of Man is Coming." "At a time you do not think likely."
Let the Governing Body continue to believe, the Christs invisible presence came in 1914, but since he's already been present since the first Century, we do not look for any invisible presence, we look for his COMING, as we should be doing, as the Governing Body should be doing.Wannabe
20
Are some of the anointed ones now already ressurrected and gone to heaven as the society claim?
by Truthexplorer in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
frankly, i am a little bit confused by this teaching.

well when i read 1 thes 4:13-18, it contradicts what the society claim.. paul wrote -.

moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that you may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope.
wannabe

Nathan Nadas!
"Enjoy life free of superstitions and fantasies." That's pretty close to what satan said to Eve! Look what hit the fan when she took his advice!~ Wannabe
20
Are some of the anointed ones now already ressurrected and gone to heaven as the society claim?
by Truthexplorer in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
frankly, i am a little bit confused by this teaching.

well when i read 1 thes 4:13-18, it contradicts what the society claim.. paul wrote -.

moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that you may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope.
wannabe

Hi All!
It's not possible any are in heaven at this time, due to the fact that the final sealing of the heavenly calling isn't completed as yet. Read Revelation 7:1-4 where it tells us four Angels are holding back the four winds of destruction until the final sealing of the heavenly calling is completed. Those four Angels are still holding tight those four winds. All of the heavenly calling had to be all together at the same time. None would begin to reign as king priests unless they were all together at the same time. Remember what Paul said in Corinthians: "You have begun ruling as Kings without us have you?" Read Matthew 24:29-31 where it tells you when the resurrection begins. That has not occured as yet. It doesn't begin until Jesus takes ACTIVE KINGDOM POWER. Wannabe
4
Exposing the Governing Body! What are they?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
:" {hebrews 3:1-6 niv}.

according to them, they are the appointed head of jehovah's house.

"{matthew 24:24 niv} next luke:.
wannabe

Exposing the Governing Body! What are they?
I'ts pretty-well common knowledge among Bible Students today, that Jesus, just prior to his ascension informed his Eleven Apostles that, "All Authortity in heaven and on earth, was given to him." So, that fact would elevate him over everyone, who made claim to be his followers today, at this time. Would you say that's a correct assumption? {Matthew 28:18} {Ephesians 1:15-23} {Philippians 2:5-11}
But more than that, even, Paul told us he was the 'one mediator between Man and God;' and didn't Jesus himself fortify that by telling us, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, and No Man comes to the Father but by me." Then told us, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will resurrect him in the last day." {1 Timothy 2:5} {John 6:44;14:6}
Considering this alone, that puts Jesus in very high station, wouldn't you say? With no man on earth equal to his position? That would be my summation of that information at any rate. But, just how high though, is Jesus Station? Notice what Paul has to say about that, in these next few words:
1"Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess. 2 He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house. 3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5 Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future. 6 But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.:" {Hebrews 3:1-6 NIV}
You notice Paul tells us to fix our thoughts on Jesus? Who was faithful to the one who appointed him? Who is to be afforded greater honor than Moses? This is the point I don't want you to miss! Notice! Paul tells us, "Christ is faithful as a Son OVER GOD'S HOUSE! Then he highlites the fact, that he, as well as all others of the Apostle's constituted God's House. He didn't tell us, they were over it, did he? They were merely members of God's Household, looking to the one appointed over it for their spritual food at the proper time. Is that not correct?
Wasn't it the Christ who was head of the house? According to him, he was:
"It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub, how much more the members of his household!"{Matthew 10:25;12:24-27 NIV} {Matthew 13:27}
15 "if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth."{1 Timothy 3:15 NIV}
18 "For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone." {Ephesians 2:18-20 NIV}
What I'm driving at here, is, I wanted you to see, that Christ is the appointed head of God's household, all the others were members of God's household, built on the foundation of the Apostles... as it says. With all of that in mind I want you to look carefully at this next scripture, which is a major bone of contention; and used by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses to identify themselves as the Fathful Slave of the Parable in Matthew 24:45: I want to show you Two different Bible Translations to make my point more solid: First the Jehovah's Witness Bible, the New World Translation. Notice the difference between the Two:
45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings."{ Matthew 24:45 NWT}
Now the expression, over his domestics, doesn't really stimulate the thought processes for those who really know their Bible does it? It really never did with me. I'd breeze on by that, and not see a thing necessarily, not ever. Be honest right now. What do you actually see there that might just cause a few doubts as to the authority of the governing Body? Anything at all? Now compare that with the New International Version, and watch how drastically the picture changes:
"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the Master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?"{Matthew 24:45 NIV}
As it did with me; doesn't the question come into your mind, 'just whose household is in question here?' That question I asked myself is what put me on to this. Thus far I have shown, it is God's Household in question here. Then I remembered what Paul has said in Hebrews 3:1-6- This Faithful and wise servant, you'll remember was 'faithful as a Son over God's House' So, whose in charge of the servants in the household, to dispense the food at the proper time? Remember too Paul said, "We are that house if we hold to our courage of which we boast."
I feel it safe to say, when they were putting the New World Translation together, they knew that Bible would go World-Wide, and most always these Bible Translators are very meticulous about preserving the original text. What might they have been thinking when it came time to deal with that scripture at Matthew 24:45? Those Boys are not dumb by any means, they would have known, to word it; "The Servants in the household," They'd be dead in the water, because they would have known someone would do what I did, and the expression, "Over his Domestics," doesn't really alter the original text all that much, but it did serve to blind the minds of those reading it, because they knew they would do what I've been doing these many years, just breezing right by it, without noticing anything; and I'm damn certain that was purposely designed that way to accomplish that very purpose, because that one scripture alone blows them right clean of the water, and they knew that it would.
Since Jehovah as Paul had said, is the builder of everything, then Jehovah had to be the Master in the Parable of the Faithful Slave. Lets read that one more time:
45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?"{Matthew 24:45 NIV}
So, now we know that Jesus was appointed over God's House; that Christ was faithful over God's House just as Moses was faithful in all God's House. We know also that the Christ was the head of the household, all others, merely members of the household. So Christ was the faithful and wise servant whom the Master, {his Father] put in charge of the servants in the house-hold.
Are we to believe, that the Members in the first Century would have tried to usurp the position of the head of the house-hold? Setting themselves up as head of God's House? They would have known, wouldn't they, that Jesus was the faithful and wise servant, that Jehovah himself had appointed? Wouldn't they also have known that Jesus had been entrusted with the Holy Spirit to use as a teaching instrument, and on their own could never teach the Bible to anyone without first being taught by him? Lacking the Holy Spirit as they would, had they ever tried to seat themselves in the seat of the Christ; at best, all they could teach would be leading individuals on a path of error, failed predictions and false prophecies. They would have known Jesus held all authority in heaven on and earth, and would never have tried to push beyond his authority, by setting themselves up in positions that belonged solely to him. Telling everyone that they were THE Faithful Slave.
They would remember the voice of Jehovah God coming from the cloud, when they were told to listen to Jesus. Not to one another, as members of the household.
4 "Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah." 5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face-down to the ground, terrified." {Matthew 17:4-6 NIV}
Wouldn't they have known that Jesus was entrusted with the Holy Spirit, and that he, after his ascension,carried on his teaching by means of Revelations from the invisible heavens? {Acts 2:33} {Galatians 1:11,12} {Ephesians 3:1-3} {Revelation 1:1,2}
Would they have even dared to tell anyone that any one of them was the appointed Faithful Save? The head of the household? While they would know, that all they were was members of God's Household and no more than that? That was the position of the True Apostles, and they never would have even dared to try and step beyond that position. What do we find today though?
We find a very shocking situation going on among the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society. Jehovah's Witnesses!
According to them, they are the appointed head of Jehovah's house. They, according to them, are the Faithful Slave. Their Watchtower Magazine is Jehovah's principle teaching instrument. Even worse! The are God's Spirit directed Organization. God's Prophet! The Anointed remnant! The Temple Class! "Listen to us as though you were listening to the voice of God, they tell us. The Mother of all Christian's in their ranks."To us, only, the Bible is not a sealed Book." No one can understand the Bible apart from them." On and on, these self honoring, self exalting, claims continue.They are the only place of safety... ... ...
Since the Faithful Slave has all authority in heaven and on earth, and the Governing Body makes claim to being that Faithful Slave, then they have all authority in heaven and on earth, and since the Faithful Slave was appointed as head over God's House, then they are the head of God's house as well. As well since they claim to be God's Spirit Directed Organization, and their Watchtower Magazine is Jehovah's Principle teaching instrument, they render the Holy Spirit in the hands of the Christ impotent and being as they claim to being God's Organization; they have managed by all of those claims to put the Christ completely out of office. The reason being, it was my understanding, that the Christ was the Faithful Slave. That the Christ was appointed over God's house. That it was the Christ was the one with the ability to pour out the Holy Spirit, and do all of the necessary teaching, and if we must listen to them as though we were listening to the voice of God, then God didn't know what he was talking about when he told all of us to listen to his Son. Oh! My! It do get confusing, don't it?
Actually it really isn't! They were foretold by Jesus, and luke penned a few words about them ,as did the Apostle Paul. First the Words of Jesus:
24"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible."{Matthew 24:24 NIV} Next Luke:
8He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them."{Luke 21:8 NIV}
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."{2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 NIV}
Has not the Governing Body for a long time now, been telling us the time is near? Do they not tell us the Christ has been invisibly present since 1914? How much nearer can you get than that ?
48"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,'49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards." {Matthew 24:48,49 NIV}
Whose been beating the Hell out of their fellow slaves, with the practice of disfellowsipping for how long now? When it's not even authorized for our day? Whose been right in their with the UN while condemning them, for Ten Years? As an agent of the NGO?
Eating and drinking with the confirmed drunkards?
If they are not the foretold Evil Slave, then would someone mind telling me, please, who is?
All through the sign Jesus gave he foretold the prevelence of many false Prophets, if you'll notice, so it stands to reason they'd all be evil slaves, in a manner of speaking. This begets the question, why did he pair two together, one Faithful, the other evil? Now we know now, that he [Jesus] was the Faithful Slave, but the other not genuine, evil. One that looked the part, but really wasn't; this class was evil. One that could, if possible mislead, the chosen ones. The one luke said, was preaching 'the time was near.' The one Paul said not to be seduced by; because he had that verbal message or letter that had the appearance of coming from the true Apostles. That lifted himself up over everyone called God or an object of reverence. Now making the statement, as they do, that everyone in their ranks should "listen to them as though they were listening to the voice of God," is about as high and lofty as any human can lift himself, don't you agree? Isn't that sitting down in the Temple of God professing to be God, when you're telling people that? Personally I would think so! {2 Thessalonians 2:1-12}
I mentioned the disfellowshipping practice not authorized today, and that was because of the parable of the wheat and the weeds. Read it through and you'll see Jesus Disciples had asked him if he wanted them to pull out the weeds. He told them: NO! There was a chance of pulling out the wheat by mistake, because they wouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other. They were told to, 'let them grow together until harvest season' at which time he would instruct the Angels to remove the weeds because they wouldn't know one from, the other. Being evil as they are the Governing Body has no respect for the authority Jesus has over those Angels, and the fact that the job of doing that cleanup was to be done by the Angels. Not by them at all! Look at the misery it has caused! All the broken Marriages and destroyed Families. Are we to believe that action on their part wasn't evil? Matthew 13:24-30 --36-43}
Jehovah foretold the antics of this evil slave class in Ezekiel Chapter 34 how they would rule over them with harshness, hold them in subjection with tyranny. Pushing and shoving them around. Like Big Spiritual Bullies! Which is exactly what they are.
I believe that I have positively identified Jesus as the Faithful Slave; the one appointed over the house of God. I have also shown that all of the Apostles were merely members of God's Household, and I have shown that absolutely none of them would ever identify themselves as THE Faithful Slave. Conversely I have shown that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, so-called, identify themselves as the Faithful Slave, the one appointed over the household of God. Now, consider this: Even if they all were of the Heavenly Calling, would they still not be only merely members of God's Household? How then can they tell us they are the Faithful Slave of the parable in Matthew 24:45 when it is the Christ who is the Faithful Slave? How can they tell us they are appointed over God's House, when it is Jesus who was appointed over God's House? They are obvious liars, and satan was the first liar and the Father of the lie! That makes the Governing Body Children of the devil, and that makes them evil, or the evil slave. Even worse, the Man of lawlessness foretold by Paul.
So, I have positively indentified the Faithful Slave: {Jesus Christ} As well, the Evil Slave, and Man of Lawlessness, as to being, the Governing body of the Watchtower Society.
One thing we can be absolutely certain of! The Governing Body of Jehovah's Withesses is definitely not the Faithful Slave as they claim, nor are they appointed over the House of God! Wannabe

Do they not have a verbal message or a letter that appears to come from the True Apostles? Don't they actually tell us they are? Do they not exalt themselves over everyone, setting themselves up in God's Temple? Don't they by telling us the Christ is invisibly present tell us it's already come?
Jesus Luke and Paul nailed them to the wall.