Posts by JCanon

86

E-mail to JW Ex-Wife: What You Can Learn Researching the WTS in 3 Hours!

by Seeker4 in

i posted a thread earlier this week about a conversation i had with my jw ex-wife.

the next day i sent her this e-mail.

one should never be afraid of ideas.

JCanon

But wait, you might think,"The Witnesses are the only group preaching God's kingdom door to door. Doesn't that prove we're the only true religion?"

Actually, it does. Who has the TRUTH except Jehovah's witnesses? What good is preaching from door to door if you believe the Trinity? And no other organization comes close to being known as preachers besides JWs. Further, even if some locals come to your door, they are not an international region.

The context of the "good news will be preached in all the earth and then the end will come" reflects a global message. Who can come close fulfilling that but the witnesses? So they, indeed, fulfill this prophecy. But, not in the context they think. As much as the WTS is the chosen and prophesied "temple" organization that would appear at the end of the "2300 evenings and mornings" they have always been considered to be a field seeded with weeds by Satan from the very beginning. So when the first blades of grass started to appear and the organization first began to grow, the weeds in the organization were already there. Freemasonry and pyramidology and calling the leaders the "Faithful and Wise Servant" first with Russell and then that idolatrous title was transferred to the GB in general, and they still maintain that tittle which makes them charismatic leaders to the witnesses. But the Bible says, "Let the two grow TOGETHER until the harvest." Then at the time of the harvest, the weeds will be separated from the wheat. The sheep from the goats. The good fish from the worthless fish as far as the kingdom goes. Then when that happens, the organization will be abandoned.

So, indeed, JWs did fulfill the "preaching of the good news prophecy" reacing international status as a sect by the "end", that end being the end of the gentile times in 1947. So that prophecy was actually fulfilled in 1947, because that was the "end of the system of things" the Jews were focussed on, the end of the "appointed times of the nations."

But this is so COMPLEX. Trying to tell the average person that Jehovah used the witnesses even though a true-false religion on a temporary basis just is not something very comprehensible for most. You know, the concept is fundamental: too difficult to separate the wheat and weeds in the early stages or else some wheat will be lost, so wait until the very end. That applies to the WTS, but its too complex. People want an absolutely TRUE RELION or else it's false. There is little tolerance for an "imperfect" organization claiming to be the true religion.

But this is another very important issue for JWs who stay. They probably see the errors and can accept the WTS doesn't understand everything but their next questions is: WHERE IS THE TRUE RELIGION THEN? Out of all the religions they know, the WTS has the most truth. They don't believe the trinity. They have high moral standards. So why leave? All other religions have their problems also and are not perfect. So given a choice, being a witness is quite reassuring for them.

In addition, it is an especially attractive Christian religion for minorities for it is a religion that is very comfortable with and prides itself on being a melting pot of all races. So what is anyone offering in the form of an ongoing religion that can replace the WTS? What organization out there has more truth and Bible understanding than the WTS? None.

This is a tangled web, and now I realize how fortunate I am to be free of it. The Bible is absolutely true. JWs are indeed the temple organization and the prophesied preachers of the "good news", but the Bible also identifies the GB as the eventual apostate "man of lawlessness" that exists in God's own house of anointed ones, who in the end becomes apostate and corrupt, requiring Christ to remove

JC

30

Why Are Barb Anderson's Comments Missing from Silentlamb's NBC Transcript?

by Seeker4 in

a few weeks ago i was checking out a few details on line about the nov. 12, 2007 nbc broadcast concerning the wts settlement on the west coast pedophile cases, and the release of the court documents on cd by barbara anderson.

i think it was lisa meyers who interviewed barbara, and brian williams was hosting.

well, i figured silentlambs had a transcript of the show, and i went there, only to find that they indeed had the transcript, but all of barbara's portion of the interview was oddly missing, and there was no link to the video.

JCanon

Unbelievable. I haven't been following this aspect of the WTS. Apologizing for only skimming this, it seems that the WTS paid out these settlements because it was cheaper than defending their position of "innocent bystander", costing them more legal fees than just $700+ thousand! As we see, they claimed no "wrongdoing."

So it's a matter of finances. The moral issue in the court and defending chruch policy wasn't seemed worth it, not to mention the bad publicity, so this looks like more "private file" issue just to save money.

But you KNOW that the WTS has a clear "conflict of interest" since the Bible does condemn taking to court "disputes" between brothers, that the Bible says should be settled in the congregation. So they have to interpret just how far that applies.

I, of course, see no problem here since they are supposed to obey the law as well, the ideal scenario being after the congregation handles the case, to encourage the wrongdoer to do his "civic duty" and go to the authorities and turn himself him. That is, if he is really "repentant." If not, then they would have a responsibility to do so to follow the law, which would not conflict with their Christian responsibility, or whether or not that person was considered forgiven or not by the congregation.

The lack of clarity of policy in this regard throughout the local congregations thus is clearly the problem here, and landing on the doorsept of the headquarters, it was just easier to pay out, especially these small settlement amounts for these few cases that actually come to trial.

But still I'm suspicious. Likely any church has this problem, where individuals abuse authority and get tempted. It's not church policy per se to encourage molestation of children. But in the BIG PICTURE, since all religion is to be destroyed by BTG to make room for the "One World Order" attacking the religion on as many issues as possible to make it easier to dismiss the religion altogether is in line with this focus, as well as the blood groups that malign the WTS for killing children because of the blood policy. The Catholic Church is having the same problem and they also have settled.

Plots within plots.

JC

86

E-mail to JW Ex-Wife: What You Can Learn Researching the WTS in 3 Hours!

by Seeker4 in

i posted a thread earlier this week about a conversation i had with my jw ex-wife.

the next day i sent her this e-mail.

one should never be afraid of ideas.

JCanon

The Society knows that there is no evidence for their date of 607 for the fall of Jerusalem, in fact ALL the evidence, and there is considerable, proves another date all together. But the WTS can't change their date because that's the only way they can come up with 1914. Most Witnesses have no idea that Russell originally came up with the 1914 date using pyramidology, which the WTS now considers spiritism!

As a witness, former witness and anointed, you must understand this is a completely incompetent assertion. Why? Because 607 BCE is solidly founded on 2 Chronicles 36 where it clearly says that the LAND will pay back sabbaths 70 years. You will never, ever, ever, ever, EVER be able to convince anyone reading the Bible for it's face value that that is not what is implied at 2 Chronicles. Let me quote it for you:

21 to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.

So while 607 BCE based on 539 BCE might be a false date, compared to 587 BCE, it is a more credible date when 539 BCE is considered the absolute "pivotal date" for the fall of Jerusalem. So this argument makes no sense.

Basically, the WTS' position is that when there is a clear contradiction between "secular" records and history and the Bible, then the secular records are dismissed as fraudulent or erroneous. That's just the rule. Since you can never, ever, ever, ever get past 2 Chronicles that state that the land is desolated to pay back sabbaths 70 years, you can't expect to win this argument. All you are really saying is that all the pagan Babylonian records point to a different date than the Bible so the Bible must be wrong. How come? Because the Babylonians are more reliable than the Jews? That doesn't work. Sorry.

But case in point, this is why many don't get far taking to witnesses because they themselves do not understand the issues. The issue is NOT 607 BCE, but when the 70 years of desolation take place and whether those are literal or not. For a witness, that will always be at least 70 years after the fall of Jerusalem because of 2 Chronicles which clearly links the land being desolate 70 years to pay back its sabbaths.

But even moreso, when you consider Josephus, who reflects both the Biblical as well as the traditional Jewish history in relation to the 70 years, and in particular the fulfillment of Jeremiah, he too introduces 70 years after the fall of Jerusalem, only more specifically, beginning at the last deportation.

ANT. 11:1.1:

IN the first year of the reign of Cyrus which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity.

So why would your wife or any JW pay any attention to you when you don't know what you're talking about? Bilibcally, you have zero foundation. But academically you clearly have a conflict and a CHOICE. Both the Bible and Josephus represent a 26-year longer NB Period than the survivinb NB records. That's it! That's the REALITY. You either decide Josephus and the Bible are correct or that the pagan records are correct. Since you can't very well do this without further examination, that leaves you with the choice until you do.

If you do bother to actually investigate, rather than follow some non-Biblical theories about the 70 years, then you might find out what I found out, and that is, that the Persians did revise all the Babylonian records and did, indeed, remove 26 years from the Neo-Babylonian kings, and used those years along with others to artificially expand the Persian Period, a key fact being that Xerxes and Artaxeres were the same king. Now this doesn't help 607 BCE, but 587 BCE is a JOKE as well, based upon the JOKE of 539 BCE.

Now I think your wife should challenge 607 BCE and every other witness teaching, but you certainly can't correct her nor the Bible with anything incompetently coming from secular records.

So you haven't PROVEN YOUR POINT why 607 BCE is incorrect, as long as both of you think 539 BCE is the true date for the fall of Babylon. She's be completely stupid to listen to you and ignore 2 Chronicles.

What you must realize is that 539 BCE is the ultimate deception in both the secular 587 BCE dating and the 607 BCE dating. They are both based on a revised timeline. Period. The Bible requires Cyrus to begin his rule in 455 BCE. So all you are doing int swapping one false teaching, one NON-BIBLICAL false teaching for another and trying to convince someone your false teaching is better than theirs. But that is specifically NOT the case. 607 BCE is a more Biblically responsible date than 587 BCE because 2 Chronicles requires a 70-year period of the land to pay back its sabbaths. You can't get past that reference for any witness.

Yes, 607 BCE is wrong and incorrect, but far from the reasons you give. So if she rejects your argument it's probably because she's read 2 Chronicles 36:21.

You must understand that this has been researched by a variety of witnesses. You must understand that you can never, ever, ever claim there was less than 70 years from the fall of Jerusalem and the 1st of Cyrus, because the Bible AND Josephus reflect that. You have to DEAL with dismissing THAT before you can dismiss 607 BCE.

You can't do that without first admitting a contradiction in the Bible vs the Babylonian timeline. Once it is admitted you need to list the facts involved with the Bible vs the Neo-Babylonian records. Once you do that, you'll see the Persian Period immediately implodes upon itself and self-reduces quite quickly by 82 years and 455 BCE reverts to the 1st of Cyrus.

So in reality, both YOU and your wife are being deceived and you're just trading one deception for another, but comparing deceptions, for any JW who is Bible-preferenced, 607 BCE makes more sense than 587 BCE and always will. So you have no purchase here. Zero leverage of any kind.

The FACT is, Xerxes used his second name, Artaxerxes to claim he was another king and faked his death. This was so well done and such a delicious secret it has remained a secret down to this day. But adjusting the timeline to the extra rule of Xerxes apart from Artaxeres is the only reason why the Bible dates the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE and secular records to 537 BCE. Until you ACCEPT REALITY in this regard, all your arguments are false and why should anybody change their own view, false or otherwise, to accept another false view?

I'm on the wife's side. IFat one point one believes that 537 BCE is the year the Jews returned, then 607 BCE for the fall of Jerusalem, initially makes more sense than 587 BCE, which is too short and does not recognize the clear 70-year period of desolation when the land is paying back its sabbaths.

It boils down to YOU trying to tell me that 2 Chronicles does not in any way imply that 70 years of lying desolate ever occured. I'll just laugh at you, since that is precisely what it says. There is no meaning in your argument. Even if I don't realize the timeline has been revised.

JC

9

New Light...My counter argument - Jn 3:34

by lookingnow25 in

so we have probably all had someone confront us with prov.

4:18 about the light getting brighter.

jw's even have their own words for it "new light".

JCanon

Hi Beta Male:

just because their lamps grew dim doesnt necessarily mean they didnt have full understanding of the situation, JCanon.
they just werent paying attention when the time came.
not suprisingly, your interpretation is a stretch.

Not a stretch. Read Matthew 24:29-30! "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..." there was darking of the sun moon an stars", etc. This means that God would spiritually limit the understanding in the congregation!!! That is accurate and precise understanding would be supppressed after the Holocaust among Christians in general and particularly among the JW organization. What ELSE could "nodding" or the diming of the lamps mean but that there was a "darkness" about the details of the second coming. ACTUAL FULFILLMENT: The actual fulfillment of the scenario of the "cry in th night" is that in 1998, which is at the end of the 12th hour, the "last hour" I publicly announced on H20 that I was the messiah. This was the literal "cry in the night!" But with that, I provided chronology and references to the prodigal son as the messiah, and Lazarus being the messiah. This is where the "wise virgins" with the extra oil separated from the "foolish virgins" who brought no extra oil. The EXTRA OIL was focus on all things Biblical, including the chronology and the prophetic parables. It made sense to the "wise virgins" that Lazarus was messianic and that the prodigal son was messianic. They could see the prodigal son receiving new robes and the banquet. It's not that far fetched. The foolish virgins would have nothing to do with this. After all, the Watchtower hadn't told them this, so why should they believe? The "wise virgins" responded to the announcement. They could see that the second wave offering was with leaven. That meant something to them! But alas! They would not share their insights with the "foolish virgins." They basically said to the foolish virgins: "Ohhhh, dear sisters. I'm so moved for your situation, but I'm so afraid I might not have enough oil for even myself. Things are soooo very anxious now. Being that I might not have oil enough for myself, therefore, I bid you to buy our own oil. I'm soooooo, very sorry. Believe me." The foolish virgins didn't quite understand, so they said: "Huh?" So the wise vrgins said, "Oh, let me simplify: TAKE A HIKE!!! You ain't getting any of my oil, you lazy b----ches!" Maybe.... Anyway, Beta Male. It boils down to this. I'm in the loop: You're not in the loop. So your outside the window looking in spectator response is clearly understood and noted. JC

4

What if ALL humanity rejects the Kingdumb Message? A modern parable.

by hamsterbait in

it is 1953, the beautiful, fairytale princess elizabeth gets into her golden coach.

('member the song "in a golden coach, there's a heart of gold, riding through old london town"?).

the palace gates open, she sweeps out into london tine.

JCanon

You know, in all modesty. Just because the Bible isn't happening for YOU, doesn't mean it's not popping for the rest of us!

Everybody is the center of their own universe, right?

JC

4

What if ALL humanity rejects the Kingdumb Message? A modern parable.

by hamsterbait in

it is 1953, the beautiful, fairytale princess elizabeth gets into her golden coach.

('member the song "in a golden coach, there's a heart of gold, riding through old london town"?).

the palace gates open, she sweeps out into london tine.

JCanon

That would serve Jehovah right. He is such an evil, wicked, cruel Tyrant that spends so much time frustrating my needs that He deserves to have nothing left to rule. And if He starts anew, I hope He has another mass rebellion. I am hoping all the angels to become demons this time. Every single one of them. Jehovah Tyrant deserves to have absolutely no love from any source. Why? He doesn't want me to have any--so He doesn't deserve any. Certainly He isn't getting any from me.

Wellll, so say the outsiders. I'm the messiah and the JIOR is in place and they are all WONDERFUL, charming people, just adorable!!! They will rule for 1000 years. ALL that Jehovah has planned is happening right on time. The messiah did arrive 45 years after 1947 as planned and the "sign of the son of man" has appeared. Now, if you're not "with the program" in that regard, your fate is predictable. All is well in the Kingdom of the Heavens! JC

3

O.T. superstitions

by behemot in

i read in a book (near eastern religious texts relating to the old testament, by walter beyerlin, ed.

) that fear of evil eye transpires from o.t.

passages such as deut.

JCanon

I'd have to find you specific references but don't have time right now. But in my research the "evil eye" was not always bad, but used to scare away evil spirits. So the "evil eye": probably is misleading. With so much emphasis on the "eye of Horus" though, that immediately comes to mind as being connected though I don't know that directly.

The scriptura passages are too general to refer to the evil eye in pagan practice though, so I don't believe this is a specific reference to that artifact. If there is a general or specific connection to the eye of Horus or the eye at the top of the seeing eye pyramid, then it is considered the eye of Satan, epitomized as the height of knowledge and insight and wisdom, the ultimate "angel of light."

Of course, I believe the Eye of Horus predates the Exodus so its use as a cultic omen to rid off evil spirits, etc. is quite possible. I don't know anything else specifically, and you will likely find lots of academic speculation as to exactly what the relevant history is, so enjoy!

Just Google "evil eye" and follow the trails. My only casual knowledge is of the Greeks using it to ward off evil spirits and it got tagged the "evil eye" in relation to that, but the eye itself was not supposed to be evil.

???

JC

24

Gas Prices In Your Area?

by sacolton in

$3.69 in oklahoma city, ok ... and going up!.

even though the new book study arrangement starts january 2009 - i wonder how many witnesses will begin to stop going this year to save on their gas budget?

.

JCanon

I just realized I TALK TOO MUCH! I beat around the bush and sometimes never ever get to the main point.

What I want to say is that the gas crisis is ENCOURAGING from the point of the view of the world ending and the world economy falling apart. That's the context of the destruction of BTG leading into Armageddon, which is a 1-year-4-month process or LESS, allegedly/hopefully being all over by the fall of 2011.

So the fact that everybody is talking about an economic issue now and that's clearly the focus of many people is encouraging! BTG is about wealth and manipulation of the economy. So maybe the Illuminati will be seen to be the ones behind the gas gouging and the UN will turn on them! Who knows.

JC

24

Gas Prices In Your Area?

by sacolton in

$3.69 in oklahoma city, ok ... and going up!.

even though the new book study arrangement starts january 2009 - i wonder how many witnesses will begin to stop going this year to save on their gas budget?

.

JCanon

"I hate to say this.." but maybe this gas issue will lead into the "great tribulation" in some way. Right now the OPEC nations have a potential leverage and control over the US because of its dependence on oil and gas. The US can hardly smugly decide they are not going to buy oil from those who raise their prices too high. The market doesn't work that way. China is growing and increasing demand and the US isn't the only customer any more. Maybe these countries are exercising their leverage while they have it.

But also factoring in is grain. The US produces lots of grain and at one point food will become more important than oil.

Frankly, with the Baby Boomers looking forward to Social Security in a system that is slated to go bankrupt, soaring oil prices, lack of health care coverage for many, the future looks glum. But not necessarily under a world economy headed by a one-world-government by the UN. It seems inevitable with globalization that nation sovereignty along with religion are clear liabilities to the survival of the entire planet.

I think we are getting to the point where people are going to be falling with faint out of fear of what is happening. Even if you have something put away, what are you going to do when you see neighbors losing their homes and starving? We're hanging by a thread for the moment but there is no safety net. The push is now becoming a shove.

But the worse it gets the sooner Armageddon will become inevitable.

JC

24

Gas Prices In Your Area?

by sacolton in

$3.69 in oklahoma city, ok ... and going up!.

even though the new book study arrangement starts january 2009 - i wonder how many witnesses will begin to stop going this year to save on their gas budget?

.

JCanon

$3.49 for regular in East Texas!

Plus it directly affects taxi services which immediately went up a dollar on their price: a $3 ride is now $4, a $5 ride now $6.

I remember years ago you could get gas for 25 cents a gallon on sale! No more...

It's affecting JOBS as well. A higher paying job that's in a nearby town is no longer an increase in pay if you have to commute because of the gas prices. People need to work closer to home (or from home, if possible).

On another note of IRONY as far as gas prices go. Many witnesses in large cities don't have far to go for their Book Studies or the Hall. But when I served where the "need was greater" in Arkansas, there you had just a few brothers, the territory was an entire county sometimes, and you'd be on the road for an hour sometimes to get to a Book Study group or to the Kingdom Hall. Even back then the cost of transportation to carry out the ministry was a MAJOR BUDGET ITEM. It was a huge burden for those already needy and saving money while trying to stay in the F/T ministry. Obviously, this will impact on the witnesses in the rural areas where its nothing to travel 50 or 60 miles both ways on a daily basis. That was way back when gas was under a dollar a gallon!

It will affect the value of goods and services as well. Alright streamlined budgets will have to make way for the rise in energy and obviously services will be cut. It's just that simple.

JC