Posts by Gorbatchov

15

Dutch State secretary reaction about abuse report and argumentation judge

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

reaction of state secretary and arguments of judge about report jw abuse in the netherlands.

minister dekker: report on jehovah's sketches "extremely worrying" picture

the report on the extent of sexual abuse within the community of jehovah's witnesses paints an extremely worrying picture.

Gorbatchov

There is no escape at the moment, even at McDonalds this afternoon:

15

Dutch State secretary reaction about abuse report and argumentation judge

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

reaction of state secretary and arguments of judge about report jw abuse in the netherlands.

minister dekker: report on jehovah's sketches "extremely worrying" picture

the report on the extent of sexual abuse within the community of jehovah's witnesses paints an extremely worrying picture.

Gorbatchov

@slimboy some newspapers use this and yes they mean it hostile.

Jw.org is not popular over here.

G.

6

Newspaper: JW top lawyer Shane Brady handles Duch court case, highest level jw.org involvement

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

newspaper stated that the highest jw.org lawyer handles the dutch court case.

so the highest level is involved.. the report of trouw, nationwide newspaper:.

the way jehovah's witnesses deal with sexual abuse is traumatic for victims.

Gorbatchov

Newspaper stated that the highest jw.org lawyer handles the Dutch court case. So the highest level is involved.

The report of Trouw, nationwide newspaper:

The way Jehovah's Witnesses deal with sexual abuse is traumatic for victims. Researchers from Utrecht University conclude that based on the stories of 751 members and former members of the religious society. An attempt to keep that investigation out of the open ended in court on Thursday afternoon. Marinde van der Breggen & Rianne Oosterom23 January 2020, 17:25 Of the people who participated in the study, 292 people experienced abuse themselves. It is striking that nine people say that the abuse still takes place today. According to the investigators, the "formalistic system" used by the Jehovah's Witnesses does not as yet provide guarantees that reports of abuse are being dealt with adequately.

Within the society, reports of abuse are usually handled internally by a committee of elders, male leaders. Such a committee only comes when there are two witnesses to the abuse, or the perpetrator has known. If that is not the case, the matter is left "in Jehovah's hands." Three-quarters of the victims did not adequately state how their case was handled after they had uncovered it. Of all the victims who answered that question, nearly 60 percent gave the Witness approach a score of 1. Two thirds of the victims who did go to the police were satisfied with how they were helped there. The most commonly given report mark there is a 10. The findings of the research group, which was led by Professor of Social Psychology Kees van den Bos, correspond to the conclusions that Trouwt drew in a series of publications in 2017. It already showed that victims of abuse often receive insufficient help and perpetrators of abuse often freely which creates a dangerous situation for children. Victims experience no recognition for what has happened to them, which means that the way they are treated is often a second trauma to them, the researchers write. They state that the rules of the Jehovah's Witnesses state that much attention must be paid to the victims, but that in practice much more attention is paid to the alleged perpetrator. "Many interventions in the community are aimed at keeping that person within the community." Victim Marianne de Voogd, who earlier in Trouw told about the abuse at the age of 13 by a man from her municipality, is very happy with the outcome of the investigation. She experienced no support whatsoever when her abuse case was dealt with internally. "This means that the Jehovah's Witnesses can no longer put me away like a liar." Closed character The characteristics of the Jehovah community, such as the strong male hierarchy, the closedness of the community and the strict sexual morality contribute to the painful experience of victims, the researchers noted in in-depth interviews with ten (former) members of the society . According to the researchers, the closedness prevents transparent handling of abuse. They call on the community of Jehovah's Witnesses to set up an internal hotline for victims of abuse, "with good knowledge of the matter and the internal and external routes that victims can walk" and to report annually on the activities of this hotline , but fellow believers and society. The researchers also want a cultural shift - more openness and transparency about sexual abuse - in which women also have a clear role to play. The report was sent to the House of Representatives with an accompanying letter from Minister Dekker. He speaks of a "very worrying image" and already urged the board of Jehovah's Witnesses Netherlands in December to adopt the recommendations. In particular the recommendation to set up a hotline. According to the minister, the board refused because they did not see the need for such a hotline. Interim relief The investigation was commissioned by Minister Sander Dekker for legal protection after the Witnesses themselves refused to conduct an independent investigation. The Scientific Research and Documentation Center (WODC) outsourced the assignment to Utrecht University. It was the first time in the Netherlands that the government launched such a study into a religious organization. The researchers set up an online hotline, conducted in-depth interviews, studied sexual abuse policies and looked at similar investigations in Australia and the UK. The Jehovah's Witnesses first cooperated in the research of the university, but tried to stop the publication at the last minute by bringing summary proceedings. They find the report scientifically and factually incorrect and call the results "defamatory". They flew in for the case with the assistance of Shane Brady, a lawyer employed by the international Watchtower who handles cases for the Jehovah's Witnesses from Russia to Canada. This afternoon it appeared in the court of Utrecht that the judge did not agree with the Witnesses' request, because he considered abuses in society more important than the possible reputation damage of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The judge takes it seriously that it is not a random publication, but an investigation wanted by the House of Representatives.

15

Dutch State secretary reaction about abuse report and argumentation judge

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

reaction of state secretary and arguments of judge about report jw abuse in the netherlands.

minister dekker: report on jehovah's sketches "extremely worrying" picture

the report on the extent of sexual abuse within the community of jehovah's witnesses paints an extremely worrying picture.

Gorbatchov

Reaction of state secretary and arguments of judge about report jw abuse in The Netherlands

Minister Dekker: Report on Jehovah's sketches "extremely worrying" picture The report on the extent of sexual abuse within the community of Jehovah's Witnesses paints an extremely worrying picture. That is what Minister Sander Dekker of Legal Protection says. "Victims of sexual abuse feel insufficiently heard, ignored, stigmatized and isolated." Sander van Mersbergen 01-01-20, 16: 18Last update: 17:01

The minister is severely disappointed in the church. He first refused to investigate the subject himself, and then did not want to set up a hotline for victims. ,, To my displeasure, the board reacted negatively to this. Instead of focusing on creating more openness and recognition for the position of victims within the community, it denied the need for this. "

"Every board of an organization, including the community of Jehovah's Witnesses, which shows signs of sexual abuse, I expect that they will do everything they can to prevent sexual abuse. This is especially true with regard to children. As Minister for Legal Protection, it therefore touches me that so many vulnerable victims felt that they were on their own, had not experienced recognition, and had not, or only recently, found their way to justice and official aid agencies. " Public The report on sexual abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses is just being made public. The judge in Utrecht ruled that that was allowed. The church wanted to stop publication. According to the Jehovah's, the investigation is scientifically and factually incorrect, defamatory and very offensive. "The report wrongly attempts to justify the claim that Jehovah's Witnesses are a closed community and require special government intervention, including supervision of their children," write Jehovah's lawyers. The court finds that a prohibition is only justified if there are special circumstances. This is a report about a widely shared healthcare. The report must lead to political decision-making. That makes the report very important for society, he says. He also believes that the scientific quality of the publication is not under discussion and that the researchers are also transparent about the limitations. Judges are unsuccessful on most points by the judge. According to him, the investigators correctly state that the Jehovah's witnesses form a closed community. The judge also does not think that the researchers conclude that abuse is more common among the Jehovah's than elsewhere. According to the church, they did and that is a false claim. Serious problem Earlier today, this site reported on the results of the research at Utrecht University, which was commissioned by Minister Sander Dekker. It states that Jehovah's Witnesses have a serious problem with regard to sexual abuse, that they do not (or reluctantly) report allegations about this to the police and need "a sharpened state investigation" because they are a "closed community." Victims of sexual abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses who reported it are very negative about the handling of their complaint. Three quarters of the reporters gave an insufficient indication of how their complaint was handled, the most given figure was even 1. The researchers received no fewer than 751 reports. Prior to the hearing, the judge indicated that he regretted that information from the case leaked.

6

Some of the Dutch investigation conclusions leaked

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

#title error changed.

this is the news report:.

researchers: place jehovah’s under stricter state control

Gorbatchov

Report on abuse at Jehovah's may be made public The report on sexual abuse by Jehovah's Witnesses may be made public. The court in Utrecht has just determined that. The church wanted to stop publication. Sander van Mersbergen 01-01-20, 16: 18Last update: 16:43

According to the Jehovah's, the investigation is scientifically and factually incorrect, defamatory and very offensive. "The report wrongly attempts to justify the claim that Jehovah's Witnesses are a closed community and require special government intervention, including supervision of their children," write the Jehovah's lawyers.

The court finds that a prohibition is only justified if there are special circumstances. This is a report about a widely shared healthcare. The report must lead to political decision-making. That makes the report very important for society, he says.

He also believes that the scientific quality of the publication is not under discussion and that the researchers are also transparent about the limitations. Judges are unsuccessful on most points by the judge. According to him, the investigators correctly state that the Jehovah's witnesses form a closed community. The judge also does not think that the researchers conclude that abuse is more common among the Jehovah's than elsewhere. According to the church, they did and that is a false claim.

Serious problem Earlier today, this site reported on the results of the research at Utrecht University. It states that Jehovah's witnesses have a serious problem with regard to sexual abuse, that they do not (or reluctantly) report allegations about this to the police and need "a sharpened state investigation" because they are a "closed community". The researchers received no fewer than 751 reports. Prior to the hearing, the judge indicated that he regretted that information from the case was leaking.

6

Some of the Dutch investigation conclusions leaked

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

#title error changed.

this is the news report:.

researchers: place jehovah’s under stricter state control

Gorbatchov

#title error changed. This is the news report:

Researchers: place Jehovah’s under stricter state control Jehovah's Witnesses have a serious problem of sexual abuse, do not (or reluctantly) report allegations about this to the police and need "a sharpened state investigation" because they are a "closed community." That is the conclusion of a report that Utrecht University will release tomorrow. The researchers received no fewer than 751 reports. Sander van Mersbergen 23-01-20, 03:00

This is evidenced by the summons of the summary proceedings that the Jehovah's brought against the publication of the investigation yesterday. This summons is in the hands of this newspaper. "The UU report wrongly seeks to justify the claim that Jehovah's Witnesses are a closed community and require special government intervention, including supervision of their children," write Jehovah's lawyers. Three-quarters of the victims of abuse within the Church of the Jehovah's Witnesses feel that they have received insufficient help from the Church. In the survey, 751 respondents shared a story about sexual abuse. Almost 300 people (292 to be precise) did this for themselves, 459 respondents reported abuse of someone in their environment. Reporting point The document also shows that the researchers, who work on behalf of Minister Dekker of Legal Protection, believe that there should be a hotline for sexual abuse within the church. An annual report should be made on the way in which that contact point deals with these reports. Another striking fact: according to the summons, the researchers suggest that the education inspectorate should better monitor the school performance of Jehovah children. They would be lower than might be expected based on their capacities. "So to speak because the parents want the child to be more actively involved in his / her church community." The Jehovah’s Witnesses think that is unfair. "Such supervision is not recommended for children raised in other religions, and there is no evidence that children of Jehovah's Witnesses perform worse on average than other children in Dutch schools. That would be surprising, given our own experience that children of Jehovah's primary and secondary education witnesses perform better than average in other countries and that the literature of Jehovah's witnesses urges parents to ensure that children meticulous school obligations. " Elder The researchers received 751 reports, but it is possible that the same people made several reports. The questionnaire was anonymous. In any case, the number of reports is considerably higher than the number that the Reclaimed Voices foundation, which represents the interests of victims of abuse, previously collected: there were 300. In total, Jehovah's in the Netherlands have around 30,000 members. Just over half of the reports (52 percent) were made by people who no longer belong to the church. Of the reports, 4 percent is about abuse by an elder from the church. The majority took place outside the church, in family circles or at home with members of the church. The Jehovahs argue on that basis that the abuse was primarily non-institutional. They also find it unjust that the abuse by the elders is directly linked to their religion. "No previous study in the Netherlands, certainly not a study commissioned by the government, is based on such a discriminatory definition of" sexual abuse, "the only requirement being that the alleged victim or alleged perpetrator is a supporter of a certain believe".

Researchers at Utrecht University make a firm judgment about how to deal with sexual abuse within the community of Jehovah's Witnesses. Marianne de Voogd (56) was abused by an elder as a young teenager, and is happy with that judgment. "We can no longer be dismissed as liars." A survivor, she calls herself conscious. No victim, she no longer wants that role. Marianne de Voogd has mastered sexual abuse in her youth. "I could have been in the gutter with a syringe in my arm." But that is not the case, certainly not. De Voogd (56) is now a cruise manager. In March she boarded again, for a trip on the Portuguese river Douro. She is already busy arranging everything, but apart from the departure date of that cruise there is another day in her diary, and that day has arrived today. Researchers from Utrecht University wrote a report about abuse among the Jehovah's Witnesses, the main outcomes of which are in the hands of this newspaper. Jehovah's Witnesses have a serious problem of sexual abuse, do not (or reluctantly) report allegations about this to the police, and need "a sharpened state investigation" because they are a "closed community." "I really hope that this ensures that we are no longer put away as liars," says De Voogd. She was thirteen when she was abused. The perpetrator was an elder from her church in Meppel, with whom she and her peers regularly came to visit. He taught her - behind a tree - how that went, such a French kiss. He put his hands in places where they didn't belong - and hers too. The man did the same for a friend of Marianne's.

Managers The story came out. The man was subjected to the Jehovah's Witnesses' own legal system. He confessed guilt and lost his position as an elder. In the eyes of the church, that was the end of the matter. Marianne just had to learn to live with her torment, the church leaders thought. She saw how, after a while, the man again had children under his care. ,, I am not saying that child abuse is more common in Jehovah's. Wherever children go, there is danger. But if something like this happens at a sports club, the police are added. With Jehovah's, it is dismissed internally, and is called a "sin." But there is quite a difference between sin and pedosexual behavior, isn't it? ” Just like every former Witness, De Voogd has struggled with her release process. At the age of 17 she left the church forced to come back at the age of 31. Living without family, it just couldn't be. She has since left the church, just like one of her brothers. Another brother is still "inside". Bad feeling Marianne knows how difficult it is to rebel against a body that determines your entire life, which is your entire life. That is why she hopes that the university's report can break things open. ,, It is not forbidden to go to the police now, but you are told that you get a very bad feeling about it. You do not declare a brother, that is the motto. I think that children who are affected should be helped better. Elders must be forced to report, if they hear of abuse cases. " The story of De Voogd was brought out in 2017 by Dagblad Trouw. Opposite that newspaper, two former elders of the church in Meppel confirmed her story. The publication in Trouw ultimately formed the direct reason for Utrecht University research, in combination with alarming stories about abuse within the movement from other countries. She has shared her story with researchers from Utrecht University, and she has also reported on behalf of a friend and on behalf of her father, who was abused in the 1950s. ,, I hope that Minister Dekker will intervene on the basis of the report. Take away the status of church and the associated tax breaks. In the end, it's just a publisher of booklets and magazines. " Ultimately, she says, she doesn't seek publicity to throw mud. ,, My reproach comes from my family, but it is not at all. I want people who are still in it, or who doubt whether they will get out, give the feeling that they are not alone. Maybe I can just give them the support they need. ”

10

Latest news from The Netherlands: Jehovah's want to stop publication of critical report on abuse

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

Gorbatchov

Latest news in The Netherlands press. JW.org doesn't understand that this will blow their image more and more.

Jehovah's want to stop publication of critical report on abuse

Jehovah's Witnesses The Netherlands wants to prevent the publication of a report on abuse within the community in summary proceedings. On Wednesday the case will be submitted to the court in Utrecht, where Utrecht University has been summoned.

Bas Soetenhorst 21 January 2020, 9:46

This confirms a university spokesperson. The report, to be published on Thursday, has been prepared by researchers from Utrecht University who have charted the seriousness and extent of abuse within the 30,000 members of the religious community. Shortly after the start of the investigation, hundreds of people had reported to a hotline. Research leader and professor Kees van den Bos then spoke of "a large number of serious reports" that seemed to justify the investigation.

The Jehovah's Witnesses were not available for comment on Tuesday morning. The official assignment comes from the Scientific Research and Documentation Center (WODC) of the Ministry of Justice and Security. At the end of 2018, the Lower House called for the investigation.

The investigation must make clear to what extent the closedness within the community contributes to whether or not to report abuse. It has also been investigated how people who report sexual abuse are treated. The case started rolling through an article in the daily newspaper Trouw from the summer of 2017, in which former members talked about sexual abuse and the culture of silence among the Jehovah's.

Cast away

It is the first time that such a large-scale study of culture has been carried out in the Netherlands within the Jehovah community. Reports were treated confidentially and not shared with the Public Prosecution Service, which does investigate multiple abuse cases within Jehovah's witnesses. Last year an ex-Jehovah from Nieuwegein was convicted of abusing his two daughters. He was sentenced to three-quarters of a year in jail after a two-year claim. The man was rejected by the community.

Earlier, the Jehova's board assured witnesses that it would cooperate fully with the investigation. "If things have happened that cannot pass, they must come to the surface," a spokesperson said in the Volkskrant last April. “For us, the safety that a family must offer is paramount. Child abuse does not suit this. And also not covering any abuses. "

22

Were / Are the Governing Body "Rock Stars"

by Number 6 in

in 1976 when i was a young lad of 6, fred franz came to glasgow and gave a talk in govan a suburb on the south side of the city (for those of you who dont know).

our congregation hired a bus to ferry us all to the hall and it was standing room only.

being only 6, i have only the vaguest of memories other than an old man shouting and bawling from the stage.

Gorbatchov

I shook the hands of Albert Schroeder in the early 1980s at a larger meeting in the Netherlands. I was around 12 years old. He was tall, gray and surrounded by a large group of admirers. My father said: "There is Brother Schroeder, give him a hand!". As always, I did what I was told and I approached Schroeder. "Do you speak German", asked Schroeder. I answered "Yes, a little". "A litle, okay," he answered and continued his conversation with someone else. I noticed that I didn't find Schroeder special, and rather arrogant. But I was used to that from older Watchtower personalities such as elders, circuit overseers, and Bethelites.

It brings back memory's, and takes me back to that time, raised in a warm family but with hard JW standards in that family. It is a double feeling.

G.

41

147th Gilead prt. 3 - this could stumble people

by neat blue dog in

during gerrit loesch's talk just released, he goes on a long list of the false end times predictions throughout the millennia.

i didn't expect it, but then he goes into the precursors to the bible students who, when their dates failed, changed christ's presence to have happened 'invisibly'.

then it goes right into the jws, and he reads the quote from millions now living will never die about how we can 'confidently expect' the resurrection in 1925, and then the life everlasting book that predicted 1975. of course, he doesn't say how it's still going on, namely with the overlapping generation and its' accompanying convoluted chart, but still, this is more than they've ever said on the subject, especially recently.. it almost sounds like a forced statement, to address any backlash from people reading 'apostate lies' online, because he also says how the gb 'humbly' admitted mistakes, referencing the non-apology after 1975 that disturbed raymond franz.

Gorbatchov

Come on,

The GB knows it's all BS. They are on top of it.

I don't believe they can be true JW believers.

G.

41

147th Gilead prt. 3 - this could stumble people

by neat blue dog in

during gerrit loesch's talk just released, he goes on a long list of the false end times predictions throughout the millennia.

i didn't expect it, but then he goes into the precursors to the bible students who, when their dates failed, changed christ's presence to have happened 'invisibly'.

then it goes right into the jws, and he reads the quote from millions now living will never die about how we can 'confidently expect' the resurrection in 1925, and then the life everlasting book that predicted 1975. of course, he doesn't say how it's still going on, namely with the overlapping generation and its' accompanying convoluted chart, but still, this is more than they've ever said on the subject, especially recently.. it almost sounds like a forced statement, to address any backlash from people reading 'apostate lies' online, because he also says how the gb 'humbly' admitted mistakes, referencing the non-apology after 1975 that disturbed raymond franz.

Gorbatchov

@JustMe2

Prior to the 1995 "This generation" change, there was a talk at the Convention that made the audience silent. It was the last talk of the Saturday session by Jan Crans, then the Dutch branche very kind and respected scholar. He later was removed from the branch comitee and became head of the Dutch cleaning department and emigrated with his wife to the US. The talk was about Matthew 24:3, "When will this occur / happen" and about 24:29, the signs in sun, moon and stars. It was a word for word HQ written talk. During and after it, there was a lot of speculation. "Were was this talk about?". One thing was clear, some of Jesus return would be visable for mankind. More then we were told in doctrine before the talk.

The style and the way Losch talk was done at the recent video has lot of the atmosphere, the vague arguments, the "listing to something diferent" and the idea "there is some change underway, we just heared it but don't understand it".

G.