bohm

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Posts by bohm

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  372

  On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

  i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

  it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

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  bohm

  Coded Logic: Those are good rules, you idiot!
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  372

  On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

  i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

  it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

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  bohm

  Bohm, do you have a specific example of someone responding in a discussion using words like "muddled" without first having addressed the argument itself?
  

  I think this would only derail the discussion but yes on the top of my head I can think of several posters who frequently describe other peoples replies using derogatory language, or assert that the truth is obvious but the other person have not bothered to understand it, rather than addressing the substance of what the other person is saying.

  If you insist on specific examples then in the past I would too sometimes do something like this myself and I believe today it was in part due to being is more stressful life circumstances and in part due to not being confident enough to type out a proper reply.
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  372

  On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

  i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

  it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

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  bohm

  EdenOne: I have been involved in a few discussions here about beliefs and opinions. And while I agree that people, not beliefs, warrant respect, and robust arguments (to use Cofty's term) may be brought forward to deconstruct beliefs of others and that is absolutely legit, there's a line that is often crossed, which I find unacceptable, which is to question or attack the person's integrity or intelligence because of some belief or opinion that is held

  I completely concur and your post made me think of something else I have noticed. I think most attacks on this board take a slightly different and more hidden form. You can tell a lot about a persons state of mind by how he or she describe how other people talk and this is also a very basic propaganda technique. For instance I could write:

  EdenOne says: "I have been involved in a few discussions here about beliefs and opinions..."

  which is neutral or I could write:

  EdenOne complains: "I have been involved in a few discussions here about beliefs and opinions..."

  In this way I introduced the idea that you are emotionally perturbed as well as the idea that your argument is not based on reason but emotions. You are the complaining sort of person who will complain no matter what a reasonable person might say.

  Similarly, other prefixes like: rambled, mumbled, blurted-out etc. etc. can be used consistently with regards to what other people say. The other person must never be allowed to simple: say, reason, argue, point out or simply make the point that (...).

  Another common way to do this is that, before responding to anything, you first make comments like:

  "I read your muddled, contradictory and poorly argued post and you did not consider..."

  where the idea the post is contradictory or poorly argued is introduced without evidence. Of course the post might be, but a more honest way to expose this is to point out the arguments which are muddled.

  Or one can introduce the idea the other person does not understand what is plainly written (without evidence) using (presumably) mind-reading by simply saying: "You do not understand the argument" or "its not my fault you can't read" or "i am not going to hold your hands if you cant follow a simple point" or "it's not my fault you dont understand simple words" without pointing out what the argument is or where the misunderstanding lies. These techniques can be used together by doing a line-by-line replay where the techniques are used after every other sentence.

  Of course saying these things are sometimes warranted when the other person really do appear not to understand simple words or deliberately misunderstand words which have been clearly defined, but if used systematically and before trying to correct the misunderstanding it will derail any discussion, it is a basic propaganda technique. I have in the past been somewhat guilty of these crimes with certain posters, and it was after noticing it in others that I realized I was doing myself a great disservice and i was really being obnoxious.
  

  
  
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  155

  Headline: "Islamic Invasion: Europe now scrambles for guns." How true is this?

  by cappytan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.

  world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.

  so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?

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  bohm

  Viviane: Well, in this case, there are so many reasons that the numbers are off (as per the people that collected the numbers), that any comparison would be meaningless.

  Well Vivinane, I was not trying to create a gotcha moment, my point was more simple that the Sweedish government is obviously collecting these numbers for comparison purpose, otherwise there would be no idea in collecting the numbers. The numbers could be compared against those of other neighboring countries with similar economic/social structure such as Denmark or Norway. I do not think i said these comparisons should be between things which are not alike, of course i do not believe that and it is right of you to point that out as you did in your previous post. For instance they should compare numbers based on the same reporting strategy which might be difficult. One way to correct for this might be to compare murders or shooting incidents which presumably is recorded the same way in all countries and which can be expected to be correlated with the number of rape cases.

  At any rate you can compare numbers within sweeden, for instance you can see if the influx of asylum seekers increase the number of reported rapes as someone who believe there is a connection between rapes and the number of asylum seekers might predict.
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  155

  Headline: "Islamic Invasion: Europe now scrambles for guns." How true is this?

  by cappytan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.

  world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.

  so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?

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  bohm

  Well, in this case, there are so many reasons that the numbers are off (as per the people that collected the numbers), that any comparison would be meaningless.

  well Viviane, you ought to contact the Sweedish government with this insight and tell them they are collecting numbers which are useless for any comparison. It would save those poor sweedes and awful lot of tax kronar!
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  372

  On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

  i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

  it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

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  bohm

  +1. Thanks for taking your type to type out this nice post!
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  155

  Headline: "Islamic Invasion: Europe now scrambles for guns." How true is this?

  by cappytan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.

  world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.

  so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?

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  bohm

  OrphanCrow: It is true correlation does not imply causation but it's usually indicative of it. One could for instance compare Sweeden with Norway (roughly similar but with far less immigrants) and that might allow stronger conclusions to be drawn.
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  17

  I have 5 Audible credits I need to use up. Recommendations?

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  something to make me think or laugh.

  i've done the hitchens, dawkins, harris thing and as much as i rate them i'd like to move off at a tangent .

  always enjoy philosophy or even something with a theological bent.. i'm coming to the end of heretic by ayaan hirsi ali and can thoroughly recommend it.. c'mon guys, don't let me down .

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  bohm

  Thanks for the recommendations Diogenesister, I am trying to find more books about philosophy and will definitely check those out.
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  33

  The thousand mile bullshit stare

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anyone else tired of this wt cliche?.

  "a certain young man named eutychus sat in the window, weighed down with deep sleep.

  as paul spoke still longer, being weighed down by his sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead".

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  bohm

  freemindfade: Lol, good catch! It seems like there were fewer bullshit stares in 2012, perhaps the bible was less profound back then?
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  33

  The thousand mile bullshit stare

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anyone else tired of this wt cliche?.

  "a certain young man named eutychus sat in the window, weighed down with deep sleep.

  as paul spoke still longer, being weighed down by his sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead".

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  bohm

  freemindfade: hahahaha. The donkeys and horses work with ALL the images on this thread!