Posts by passwordprotected

35

Personal Grudges and Judicial Committees: is There a Link?

by passwordprotected in

i've received a submitted article for publication on my blog (http://thegoverningbody.org).

this is from the introduction:.

i have an issue i would like raise.

passwordprotected

Having listened to all the material posted I think Matthew's fate was sealed the moment he accused Ronnie Hunter of slander. Matthew refused to play the role of the cowed Witness in the face of the elders interfering with his family but took them on at their own rhetorical game. Faced with the claim that they had acted improperly Ronnie Hunter decided Matthew simply had to go in order to uphold his own righteousness and he did everything in his power to accomplish that end.

You're probably right re. Ron's involvement. I know for a fact that my parents had been pestering the elders in Matt's congregation to get something done about him (and cardboard ninja). They'd been gathering evidence against him based on his on-going friendship with my wife and I, as alluded to in the recordings; they'd gone on holiday with us, a holiday that had originally been planned with one of the elders on the original judicial committee.

That being said, Matt had moved house and hadn't been to a meeting for around 6 months. They actively pursued him very quickly after his 25th December encounter with Ron in the Bishopbriggs Kingdom Hall.

Ron likes to play Mr Meek and Mild, but it should be apparent to even the most pro-JW listeners that the guy had an agenda and could barely contain his ire at Matt's audacious questioning. Notice how, when seemingly backed into a corner regarding his own allged slander, he started asking Matt theological questions. Matt's replies gave Ron the ammunition to relaunch their investigation against him.

That's where the lack of ethics come in;

Ron was one of two elders who had "shepherded" Matt and his wife
information disclosed by the couple at these visits where re-visited by Ron during his confrontation with Matt
Ron became the chief accuser against Matt
Ron was the chief witness to the accusations against Matt
the other witness to the accusations was the other elder who had "shepherded" them

35

Personal Grudges and Judicial Committees: is There a Link?

by passwordprotected in

i've received a submitted article for publication on my blog (http://thegoverningbody.org).

this is from the introduction:.

i have an issue i would like raise.

passwordprotected

What makes you think that? Isn't there just a bit of wishful thinking involved there? You want the Watchtower organization to become more hardline to vindicate your low opinion of them and help flush out more members, perhaps including people you know who are still in. But what if the organization becomes less hardline? Would you welcome that or would you be disappointed? For what it's worth I think you made the right decision to leave regardless of whether the organization becomes more hardline or not. Don't make your estimation of your choice dependent on whatever they decide to do in the future.

If I remember correctly, your choice to remain a Witness (and I'm guessing, fade?) is so that your aunt will continue to speak to you. That might influence how your read my comments on faders, no?

You want the Watchtower organization to become more hardline to vindicate your low opinion of them and help flush out more members, perhaps including people you know who are still in.

Really, I do? You know that for a fact?

My low opinion of "them"; who is "them"?

But what if the organization becomes less hardline? Would you welcome that or would you be disappointed?

My personal feelings over what the Watch Tower Society does or doesn't do aren't being discussed. As it happens, I don't believe the Organisation will become less hardline. The recent reemphasis over relationships with disfellowshipped family members (twice in 3 months?) suggests a certain hardline stance.

What has my "estimation of my choice" got to do with the obvious tightening of control on the Witnesses by The Governing Body? Did the fact that I disassociated from the high control environment of the Watch Tower Society mean that my opinions on how The Governing Body are operating wrong or irrelevant? If so, how does that work?

Could it be that you have an element of fear lingering over you, that because you're still ostensibly identified, via your baptism, as a Jehovah's Witness, the Society has some sort of control over your future? For example, if they did crack down on faders, it would impact on your life via family relationships?

I sympathise up to a point.

35

Personal Grudges and Judicial Committees: is There a Link?

by passwordprotected in

i've received a submitted article for publication on my blog (http://thegoverningbody.org).

this is from the introduction:.

i have an issue i would like raise.

passwordprotected

@Aussie: - I have no doubt they could do that. It would certainly sort the wheat from the chaff.

35

Personal Grudges and Judicial Committees: is There a Link?

by passwordprotected in

i've received a submitted article for publication on my blog (http://thegoverningbody.org).

this is from the introduction:.

i have an issue i would like raise.

passwordprotected

Faders are the problem the WTBTS, under the guidance of The Governing Body, will address over the next 3 years.

32

As The Governing Body Tightens its Grip...

by passwordprotected in

two and a half years ago i predicted that the governing body was going to have to tighten its grip on the rank and file witnesses.. "it's time to get in the compound, brothers and sisters...." it's classic sleight of hand.

distract your audience.

pull off the trick.

passwordprotected

I do not for one moment believe they are actually paranoid, actually believe the fears they are instilling in the Rank and File Witnesses, but they see it as the only way to go to preserve their postion of power and control, and to preserve their comfortable lifestyle.

High-control religious groups (WTBTS, Independent Baptist Church, Westboro Baptist, etc etc) need a raison d'etre. There has to be a line in the sand that the leaders can point to as proof that their group is different, special, better, set apart, holy etc. The line in the sand may merely be doctrinal, it may be the claim that "we're more biblical than everyone else", or it may be because the group holds to a particular annihilationalist eschatology.

Whatever the raison d'etre is, it must be compelling to the members of the group, something that gives them a sense of having "the truth", something that sets them apart and gives them a reason to do the works the elite tell them to, and to do so with urgency and vigour.

What, exactly, does The Governing Body offer the rank and file that provides this? Perhaps it used to be the 1874 return of Christ and the "herald of His presence". Maybe it was "millions now living will never die" and the 1925 return of the prophets. Possibly, for a while, it was the persecution during the 30s and 40s.

Later, it might have been "stay alive 'til '75". Or the 1914 generation that so clearly showed up the 1980s would see the wrap up of "this old system".

All along they had bold, vibrant prophets and visionaries, men who could point with clarity to world events and paint a picture of absolutely imminent, exclusive salvation for those who have "remained faithful until the end".

But with the recent eschewing of 1914, the concoction of the overlapping generation and the increasing number of "Memorial partakers", the Watch Tower Society has lost it's line in the sand.

The Witnesses, if they really examined their doctrines, would see that, not only have their denominational goal posts been moved, they've been completely uprooted from the turf and are no longer to be found in the stadium!

I'm sure The Governing Body realises that it no longer has any doctrinal hooks in the rank and file. It doesn't have a bold prophet. It doesn't even have ticking, "end of age" clock anymore.

Therefore, as we approach 2014, it needs to resort to the cult classic: fear.

The Governing Body doesn't fear apostates, opposers or faders unless their bottom line is affected. Watch the money, always watch the money...If the elite recognise their monetary resources are being impinged upon - or could be impinged upon - expect them to act.

Losing members doesn't frighten them; they're more than making up for lost membership in the 1st world by the new comers in the 2nd and 3rd worlds. However, it's the 1st world members that were shoring up, financially, the in-roads made in the 2nd and 3rd worlds.

So, they're prepared for casualties. They don't really need the wishy-washy socialite Witnesses. They want the hard-core, "we will unquestioningly obey, even sacrificing our children", uber-Dubs. These ones will only ask "how much?" when The Governing Body rattles its collection can...

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds, will they get much more hardline about faders like me, who are in a position to sow a lot of thoughts in active Witnesses minds ? which I do on every possible occasion !

I've no doubt that the faders will be next in their sights, as predicted two years ago

32

As The Governing Body Tightens its Grip...

by passwordprotected in

two and a half years ago i predicted that the governing body was going to have to tighten its grip on the rank and file witnesses.. "it's time to get in the compound, brothers and sisters...." it's classic sleight of hand.

distract your audience.

pull off the trick.

passwordprotected

Two and a half years ago I predicted that The Governing Body was going to have to tighten its grip on the rank and file Witnesses.

"It's time to get in the compound, brothers and sisters...." It's classic sleight of hand. Distract your audience. Pull off the trick.

What's the trick the WTS needs to pull off? Not losing their membership through being disillusioned over 100 years of invisible 'presence'. Let's face it, the Dubs have nothing to look forward to now, what with the 1935 reversal being linked to the generation change. My 3 year old son could be of the anointed and hence part of the generation. Their message hasn't changed, the organisation isn't going anywhere. And while they bleat about being soooooo very very very close to the end, they build bigger and bigger Bethels and dormitories while guilt-tripping their adherents into not going to college and not speaking to Uncle Peter because he has 'doubts'.

Is there any end in sight for the Dubs? No. So, it's time to use some sleight of hand; keep 'em sacred. Scream from the rooftops, "Satan is advancing! Quick, get in the compound! And once there, produce more and more works like you've never produced works before! It's the only way to survive his anger!!"

While it appears they're giving the R&F a bit of slack by reducing the number of meetings per week, they're actually mounting more and more pressure through the printed pages of the books and magazines and from the platform.

I've explored this issue again on my blog*. I'm convinced that the WTBTS is prepared to lose members. Let's face it, it's easier - and cheaper - to maintain a membership roll of 3 million, or less, than it is 7 million. A smaller core group of die-hard acolytes is easier to micro manage than a more sprawled-out-in-terms-of-obedience congregation of wishy-washy part-timers.

I believe we're starting to see a tightening of the screws once again, much as was evident post-75 and post-Franzgate. Except this time The Governing Body doesn't really have the big stick/carrot of eschatology on its side. After all, the Watchtower barely mentions 1914 these days and we're fast approaching the 100th anniversary of Russell's ebullient dining room declaration about the kings having had their day...What, exactly, does The Governing Body have to keep poking, prodding, and cajoling the rank and file with; not the "generation", that's for sure. They need a new cattle prod.

At the end of the day, the Witnesses have little reason to stay in the compound. Unless The Governing Body can effectively demonise everyone outside the compound. And I realise this isn't a new trick. They've always done it. However, I believe we're starting to see them crank the fear factor up a few notches.

The July 1st 2011 Watchtower, particularly in it's dumbed-down format (how much fun are we going to have with the starker language used in that version?), is leaving me in no doubt where the agenda of The Governing Body lies;

stay scared of those on the outside
stay scared of the Organisation; it holds your eternal future in its fleshy paw
obey the faithful and discreet slave; it's the only way God will love you and your children
stay terrified of those who leave, the false-teaching-apostes; they only want your discipleship, which is, per your baptism, rightfully ours
your loved one, children in particular, will leave the compound; be afraid of them and show us you love us more
our terms of service are subject to frequent change; expect this to continue in new and frightening ways. However, this is merely proof of God's love for us, and our dominance of you

None of this is new, I know that. However, I believe it's been a long, long time since we've seen it put over so plainly.

Fun times ahead in Watchtower Land as we move ever closer to 2014...

* extract:

The most cultish statement, however, preceded this one, again, taken from the Simplified English Watchtower:
Today, the faithful and discreet slave sometimes helps us to understand a teaching in the Bible in a way that is different from what we thought before. We should be happy about these changes. They show us that Jehovah is using the faithful and discreet slave to teach us the truth. - ibid. Emphasis added.
Here we see demonstrated pure, cult logic.
When we’re wrong, we’re right. And when we need to change what we once taught you because we were wrong (even though we were right) you should be happy about this because it proves we’re right.
Think that through for a moment.
I’m driving my family to a holiday destination. I have checked the map. I have punched in the address into our car’s sat-nav. I decide, en route, to follow my own series of directions to our destination. The sat-nav says go north. I go north-west. After a few miles I discern that my route needs to be readjusted. I double-back, heading south-east. Then, while the sat-nav instructs us to go east, I decide to go south.
How should my family feel about these changes in our journey, and the fact that we are no closer to our destination than we were 3 hours earlier?
Happy, of course!
Why?
Because these frequent, and perhaps illogical, changes in direction show that I am, in fact, following the sat-nav.
My family’s confidence in my abilities to get them to the destination should be bolstered. I am more able to follow the obvious direction of the sat-nav than my family are. They should simply trust that the sat-nav is guiding me in a more accurate way than them. And this is evident by me having to make changes to the route I have decided to venture on.

35

Personal Grudges and Judicial Committees: is There a Link?

by passwordprotected in

i've received a submitted article for publication on my blog (http://thegoverningbody.org).

this is from the introduction:.

i have an issue i would like raise.

passwordprotected

I've received a submitted article for publication on my blog (http://thegoverningbody.org). This is from the introduction:

I have an issue I would like raise. So far I have transcribed at least one full Judicial Committee Hearing and appeal. This one in Scotland (The trial of Matthew Barrie). I have studied at least two others, and one thing I’ve noticed is common to each of them is: the ever-present personal grudge.
Strongly attested in the testimony of the accused is that their cases were motivated by these grudges. As I tend to write evidence-based essays on this I would like to share the evidence presented below. This evidence strongly suggests why accused strongly JWs need to have representatives.

I'm guessing many will be familiar with Matt Barrie's judicial case. He and his wife (iknowall) had faded from the Society, she eventually disassociated. But following a Matthew 18 inspired confrontation with local elder Ron Hunter (Bishopbriggs Congregation), Matt found himself faced with a judicial committee meeting on the grounds of apostasy, where Brother Hunter was the key prosecution witness.

Matt happened to record the audio of all of the meetings between himself, and initially his wife, and the local elders. He also recorded the first judicial hearing, and the subsequent appeal hearing where he sat in front of Ian Shanks (Riddrie Congregation), Martin Benzie (Motherwell Bellshill Congregation) (who was chairman), and Philip Jones (Riddrie Congregation).

These recordings have been available online as downloads, and as a podcast (link opens iTunes, if installed). To date, the recordings have been downloaded 15,000 times. The audio has also been transcribed, allowing you to read how treacherous the whole disciplinary process against Matt was.

I've published 2 articles - submitted by the person who transcribed the audio recordings referred to above - on the ethics of Jehovah's Witnesses. This new series will examine the part that personal grudges play when a person is tried by a Judicial Committee.

Click to read!

50

What proof is there that Jesus chose the Bible Students in 1919?

by VM44 in

what proof is there that jesus inspected all the religions or the earth in 1919 and then chose the bible students?.

just because the watchtower says in its literature that they were chosen is not proof!.

passwordprotected

My mother-in-law told me that Jesus said he'd leave us a "faithful and discreet slave" who'd teach us the truth.

50

What proof is there that Jesus chose the Bible Students in 1919?

by VM44 in

what proof is there that jesus inspected all the religions or the earth in 1919 and then chose the bible students?.

just because the watchtower says in its literature that they were chosen is not proof!.

passwordprotected

The WTBTS has normally pointed to the liberation from prison of Rutherford and the directors, followed by their "zealous preaching" as proof of their selection.

However, this line of evidence relies upon Jesus having returned and found them awaiting his arrival in 1914, something that the Proclaimers book refutes; they were saying Jesus had returned in 1874 by the time 1914 rolled around.

Therefore their evidence doesn't stand even cursory scrutiny:

what was Jesus looking for among Christendom?
- a people awaiting his arrival and serving "spiritual food" of high quality
the Bible Students (under CT Russell and then Rutherford) were preaching in 1914 that Jesus had returned 40 years earlier (Russell had sold his business and poured his resources into publishing literature to that effect
- in 1914 the Bible Students weren't alert and waiting for Christ's return; they'd announced it as 1874
the Bible Students would not have met with Jesus' alleged criteria for selection, regardless of how high a quality their "spiritual food" was
- therefore Jesus did not choose them in 1919

All of that being said, the years 1914 and 1919 are almost exclusively associated with the Watch Tower Society. As Jesus couldn't have chosen them in 1919, there is absolutely no basis for any Christian to believe that the Watch Tower Society (via the Bible Students and then Jehovah's Witnesses) speaks for God or was chosen by God.

The Witnesses are unable to rebut this point by invoking Proverbs 18 and "the light getting brighter" as Christ wouldn't have been refining the Bible Students/Jehovah's Witnesses since 1919. He didn't choose them. Therefore not once has he revealed "new truths" to them.

The scale and scope of the circular logic needed to believe and support the 1919 selection is mind boggling.

It's always worth pointing out to a Witness what the "advertise advertise advertise" campaign by the Bible Students upon their "selection" in 1919 consisted of:

“For six thousand years God has been preparing for this kingdom. For nineteen hundred years he has been gathering out the kingdom class from amongst men.

Since 1874 the King of glory has been present; and during that time he has conducted a harvest and has gathered unto himself the temple class.

Since 1914 the King of glory has taken his power and reigns. He has cleansed the lips of the temple class and sends them forth with the message. The importance of the message of the kingdom cannot be overstated.

It is the message of all messages. It is the message of the hour. It is incumbent upon those who are the Lord’s to declare it.

The kingdom of heaven is at hand; the King reigns; Satan’s empire is falling; millions now living will never die….
The world must know that Jehovah is God and that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords. This is the day of all days.
Behold, the King reigns! You are his publicity agents. Therefore advertise, advertise, advertise, the King and his kingdom! “
Source

I've blogged about 1919 and the lack of evidence on my blog.

15

Increased promotion of 'worship' to the Faithful Slave in the Watchtower

by callitquits76 in

jw
friends

i have heard it said that over the past few months, the magazines have been filled with pro-gb garbage promoting complete obedience to the body.

can anybody point me to any examples?.

passwordprotected

My opinion is that The Governing Body are looking to tighten their grip on the rank and file Witnesses. Expect this to increase in the lead up to 2014, while at the same time they try and distance themselves doctrinally from 1914.

Watchtower articles from the last 6 months are filled with examples of the Witnesses being encouraged to, essentially, worship The Governing Body and the Organisation.

Here are a few:

- Submit to the Governing Body

- The Governing Body This, The Governing Body That (quotes from 2011 Year Book)

- Do Jehovah's Witnesses Have Human Leaders?

- Obeying The Governing Body Means Your Life. Eternally

- Jehovah's Witnesses: Who is Your Leader? (4 part series examining recent exhortations from The Governing Body regarding obeying them without question, all from recent WT articles)