Posts by processor

my question revolves around prophecies.. believers will claim that one of the sure signs of the divinity of the bible is that it predicts events hundreds/thousands of years before the events actually occuring.. from a more pragmatic viewpoint, a prophecy is a prophecy if it was predicted and documented ahead of the events in question.. the oldest known copies of biblical texts aare the death sea scrolls, dated from what i understand somewhere between 200bc-100 bc.. is there anything in the scrolls (not other books of the bible, but in the few biblical texts in the actual scrolls) that points to historically confirmed events postdating the scrolls?.

in other words, are there biblical prophecies written on paper (or whatever medium) that:.

a. can be confirmed to have been written prior to the predicted event - by means of radiological dating or other scientific metod, and.

processor

@Leolaia: Nice =) ... I might translate that to German once I have time.

13

Help With Bible Chronology Please

by Yan Bibiyan in

my question revolves around prophecies.. believers will claim that one of the sure signs of the divinity of the bible is that it predicts events hundreds/thousands of years before the events actually occuring.. from a more pragmatic viewpoint, a prophecy is a prophecy if it was predicted and documented ahead of the events in question.. the oldest known copies of biblical texts aare the death sea scrolls, dated from what i understand somewhere between 200bc-100 bc.. is there anything in the scrolls (not other books of the bible, but in the few biblical texts in the actual scrolls) that points to historically confirmed events postdating the scrolls?.

in other words, are there biblical prophecies written on paper (or whatever medium) that:.

a. can be confirmed to have been written prior to the predicted event - by means of radiological dating or other scientific metod, and.

processor

King David's throne would be established forever

So, where is it?

Jesus did not sit on David's throne, which has been destroyed centuries before Jesus was born.

He claimed that he would inherit David's throne, but this was just a claim, not a fulfilled prophecy.

Daniel predicted when an anointed one would be rejected

There were thousands of people who claimed to be "anointed ones" and have been rejected. Just go downtown, tell everyone that YOU are the Messiah, and see how they will reject you.

God promised another prophet like Moses

There were (and are until today) lots of prophets. Why should this prophecy have been fulfilled with Jesus?

The Messiah would be a descendant of Abraham

Sure, since all Jews (the only people that believed in a Messiah) were descendants of Abraham.

Isaiah foreshadowed the virgin birth of Jesus

No, he did not. He told the king that a young woman (not a virgin!) will get pregnant and call her son Immanuel ("God is with us"). This should show that Syrian threat would be over before a young woman would give birth (= within 9 months), so that she would give her child a positive name. Isaiah did not mention a virgin, and he did not mention the Messiah. And, Mary gave Jesus the name Jesus, not Immanuel.

There would be a son called God

Jesus was called God? And if he was, what about the Roman emperors? They were called Gods too.

He would perform miracles

And according to Matthew 24:24, "false Christs" would also perform miracles. Nothing spectecular.

The Messiah would be preceded by a messenger

Lots of people were preceded by a messenger. Nothing special.

God's salvation would reach the ends of the earth

Yes, God's salvation can be seen to the ends of the earth today. No hunger, no pain, no death. He saved us all.

Jesus was spat upon and beaten

As were countless other people.

The Messiah would be rejected

All religious leaders, cult founders and other persons were rejected by the majority of people. I reject your ideas too, does that mean that you're the Messiah?

God's servant would die for our sins

Jesus died, and claimed that it would have been for our sins. Yet, nothing has changed since then. We are still sinners, and still we die. As death is the consequence of sin (according to the Bible), if Jesus would have taken away our sins we wouldn't sin and die anymore. So, nothing happened.

God's servant would be silent before his accusers

As was Obama in the first TV debate.

God's servant would be buried in a rich man's tomb

As were all rich men.

God's servant would be "numbered with the transgressors"

As were all transgressors.

The Messiah would be a descendant of King David

As were countless other Jews

All who believe in Jesus will be saved

No, he just claimed that.

Jesus proclaims that he is the Messiah

Ähh ... was this a prophecy about the Messiah that he fulfilled???

Jesus foretold his death and resurrection

Yes, but wrongly. He was not dead for 3 days. According to the Bible he was dead for barely 2 days.

The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem

Over the centuries countless people have been born in Bethlehem.

Jesus was betrayed by a friend

Me too.

The Messiah would enter Jerusalem while riding on a donkey

This is one of the prophecies that he fulfilled by intention (if the Bible is true).

Zechariah foreshadowed the crucifixion of Jesus

Jesus was not really "pierced through".

Apart from that, most of these "prophecies" were no prophecies. They were just statements. Later, the Christians saw prophecies in this accounts and claimed that Jesus would have "fulfilled" those.

13

Help With Bible Chronology Please

by Yan Bibiyan in

my question revolves around prophecies.. believers will claim that one of the sure signs of the divinity of the bible is that it predicts events hundreds/thousands of years before the events actually occuring.. from a more pragmatic viewpoint, a prophecy is a prophecy if it was predicted and documented ahead of the events in question.. the oldest known copies of biblical texts aare the death sea scrolls, dated from what i understand somewhere between 200bc-100 bc.. is there anything in the scrolls (not other books of the bible, but in the few biblical texts in the actual scrolls) that points to historically confirmed events postdating the scrolls?.

in other words, are there biblical prophecies written on paper (or whatever medium) that:.

a. can be confirmed to have been written prior to the predicted event - by means of radiological dating or other scientific metod, and.

processor

To my knowledge, no and no.

The Dead Sea Scrolls contain only an almost complete Isaiah scroll, and they were written ca. 180 BCE. The oldest copies of most Bible books are from the 4th and 5th century CE or later.

The Bible does not contain any prophecies that were clearly fulfilled after that time. Of course you can see "symbolic" or "antitypical" fulfilments if you have enough imagination ...

70

New Governing Body Member: Hugo Riemer - More WT Revisionist History

by 00DAD in

as part of the wt's recent push to get the r&f "to study and recount the history of the earthly part of jehovahs organization" there is a curious article in the from our archives featurette of the august 15th, 2012 watchtower.

it offers a highly sanitized version of early jw history.

but what is particularly strange is this revisionist history re-categorizing of an early bible student/jw, one hugo riemer.

processor

what 00DAD has said remains true: there was no Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses prior to 1971

Yes! We know that there was no GB before 1971, and "the president" was "the society" was "the governing body" was "god's channel".

Still, JW's are not aware of this. THEY believe that there has always been a Governing Body (as it is written in the Watchtower and the Watchtower contains the truth).

70

New Governing Body Member: Hugo Riemer - More WT Revisionist History

by 00DAD in

as part of the wt's recent push to get the r&f "to study and recount the history of the earthly part of jehovahs organization" there is a curious article in the from our archives featurette of the august 15th, 2012 watchtower.

it offers a highly sanitized version of early jw history.

but what is particularly strange is this revisionist history re-categorizing of an early bible student/jw, one hugo riemer.

processor

They have talked of a "Governing Body" BEFORE 1971 for decades.

*** w71 12/15 p. 757 A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation ***

According to the apostolic example of the first century C.E., these dedicated, baptized Christians known today as Jehovah’s witnesses have a governing body, as specifically noted from the year 1944 onward. This governing body has through the years been associated with the publishers of the Watch Tower magazine and the Board of Directors of the legal religious corporation now known as Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania

*** w90 3/15 p. 17 par. 9 Cooperating With the Governing Body Today ***

For years, the visible Governing Body came to be identified with the seven-member board of directors of this corporation established to publish the Bible study aids needed and used by the Lord’s people earth wide.

*** w90 3/15 p. 18 par. 13 Cooperating With the Governing Body Today ***

Until 1971 those of the Governing Body were still identified with the seven members of the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. The Society’s president carried the main load of responsibility for making decisions affecting the operation of the Society’s branches throughout the world.

*** je p. 26 Shepherding God’s Flock in Unity ***

In 1909 they moved their headquarters to Brooklyn, New York. Through the years the directors of the Watch Tower Society and other closely associated, spiritually qualified, anointed men have been serving as a governing body for Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The Governing Body consists of a group of anointed Christian men (13 in 1986), including 7 serving on the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society.

39

Well, I talked with two active JWs about the latest understanding of the F&DS.

by Theocratic Sedition in

jw
friends

i know a brother who went to the most recent annual meeting.

older brother, non-annointed, elder, wife a pioneer, and overall a pretty good dude.

he let me take a peak at the new awake dropping in 2013, which by the way i have to give credit where it's due as i like the new 16 page format.

processor

How do they explain that there was no official "Governing Body" in 1919? It was never mentioned until the 1970s.

Yes, but from the 1970s on they keep saying that the Society's Board of Directors would have been the Governing Body.

4

Anonymous in the Dec 15 2012 Watchtower

by yalbmert99 in

here are 2 anons from anonymous in the watchtower of dec 15 2012 p. 21 with the famous guy fawkes masks :.

http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=20&u=16614902.

.

processor

nice =)

27

Cedars, I'm Thankful That You Are Here!!!

by minimus in

jw
friends

you are a welcomed addition to this site!.

processor

Indeed.