Posts by Frjprice

9

Who decided the bible was form god?

by Anti-Christ in

i just want to know how many believers know how the book we call the bible came to be, i know the answer but i'm curious to see how many believers really know.

Frjprice

I'm interested in seeing Anti-Christ's answer on this before I comment...

9

hey, i was reading karl marx today for one of my college classes and he mentions briefly the chiliasts and i quote, "in their minds [french revolutionists] may 2, 1852, had become a fixed idea, a dogma, like the day on which christ should reappear and the millennium begin, in the minds of the chiliasts.

" the footnote goes on to say about the chiliasts, "the adherents of an ancient christian sect, who believed in the second coming of christ and in the establishment of the millennium, a thousand years of pardise on earth.

obviously this mention of the millennium believing chiliasts struck my curiosity since that is exactly what jws believe especially when chiliasts believed that satan would be let loose at the end of the 1000 years for one final battle.

Frjprice

Chiliasts or otherwise known today as millenarianism is a doctrine that was actually founded in the jewish times, primarily in the jewish apocalyptic books. the book of Henoch and the fourth book of Esdras contain several details on the coming of the messiah, the defeat of nations hostile to israel, the union of all israelites in the messianic kingdom, and the renewal of the world followed by the universal ressurection. Sound Familure?

This was a heresy the early church battled against, one of the earliest documented heretics who taught this was a gnostic named cerinthus(if i remember right), toward the end of the first centuary. At this time, it became wide spread, even effecting some within the church. Bishop0 papias of hierapoles (whom was a deciple of the apostle John) taught something simular to this, and had to later be corrected.

It has also carried down to today, most fundamentalists including JW's teach millenarianism.

18

What would you say to this........

by fifi40 in

jw
friends

yesterday my friends 14 year old son died after a lenghty stay in hospital.

he had cystic fibrosis and in september caught an infection resulting in him spending pretty much the rest of his time in ic during which he suffered 2 heart attacks and was on life support and for the final few weeks has not been conscious due to medication.

sadly he lost his battle yesterday.. he was a little chap who i knew and was friends with my son from first day at primary school.

Frjprice

My, how many times I've heard that!

When my father passed away, that is all I heard, even "at least its an easy way to the possibility of resurection and the new world"

Its amazing to me that this is all the condolence they can offer, perhaps trained by the organization to say such things so that their doctrines are easier to accept?

Sorry to hear about the loss, I will include him in my prayers today, as well as his family and your child.

19

Apostates - viewed as liars, the devils henchmen & to be avoided at all cos

by The Scotsman in

jw
friends

yes, as far as jehovahs witnesses are concerned, apostates are evil, wicked, faithless liars.. i was wanting to ask - assuming most if not all who come here are in the jw category of apostate, how do you feel about the fact that you are portrayed in such a light by the org?.

i will be the first to admit - i always thought that those who criticized the org were untruthful or exaggerating.

its not until now i have considered what you guys have to say and how you feel that i realize that what you have to say is all truthful (tinged with a bit of anger perhaps).. personally i think its verging on character assassination.

Frjprice

I've been called that once or twice... couldn't imagine why?

As several of the above posters mentioned, to those on the 'inside' it is just another method of control. Its enough that if you are outside of the org. that noone you know is allowed to speak to you, but if they can convince everyone that those on the outside have horrible, misrible lives and no family, friends or support just like "lost sheep" then how much more would people want to keep from being put there?

108

Hello everyone, first post.

by Frjprice in

jw
friends

hello, i just wanted to introduce myself to everyone here - as i will be posting here.. i grew up a jw and pioneered, was a ministerial servant, ect, i was in the organization for 17 years.

i left and naturally my family did as they were told and cut off all communication with me.

this left a horrible taste in my mouth for not just jw's, but any religion for that matter.

Frjprice

Imagine that... I would have had no idea :)

108

Hello everyone, first post.

by Frjprice in

jw
friends

hello, i just wanted to introduce myself to everyone here - as i will be posting here.. i grew up a jw and pioneered, was a ministerial servant, ect, i was in the organization for 17 years.

i left and naturally my family did as they were told and cut off all communication with me.

this left a horrible taste in my mouth for not just jw's, but any religion for that matter.

Frjprice

Sorry, have been out of town

Father,
I am not totally believing your story...
Which Bishop ordained you?
Where is the parish you are serving: town and name, please....
Forgive me Father.....I smell a con, here.....
Vernon Williams
Monett, MO

Archbishop James Long(provincial archbishop of our church) Archbishop Michael Seneco(presiding archbishop for our church) and Bishop Stephen Delaney(judicial vicar for our church) were my ordaining bishop's, along with Father Brian Marabanian who was concelebrant.

I am currently serving as associate pastor (the bishop is still getting thing up and running) at a newly started parish, St. Christopher's old catholic church, here in Louisville, Ky.

www.universalcatholic.com

Hey everyone,
I just talked to another person at the link to that site, and there is no "Father J. Price" there is a David Price. I think this person here is a troll. I sent the email address on the website multiple emails that were all returned as undeliverable, and whoever this person here is doesn't have an email listed.
Just a head's up.
Matt

Correct, kind of. My middle name is David.

108

Hello everyone, first post.

by Frjprice in

jw
friends

hello, i just wanted to introduce myself to everyone here - as i will be posting here.. i grew up a jw and pioneered, was a ministerial servant, ect, i was in the organization for 17 years.

i left and naturally my family did as they were told and cut off all communication with me.

this left a horrible taste in my mouth for not just jw's, but any religion for that matter.

Frjprice

You also missed my point that I did not refer to the typical child father relationship between a paternal man and his son. I am referring to the very express idea that Rabbi Yeshua was implementing which is that we are not to address one in a religious piety with that title of Father. He used a very specific Greek element there, addressing disciples. When a Rabbi in the first century took on disciples, it was common Torah knowledge (from the actual written Torah, not the oral) that only Yahweh is "Father" (pater) to a man. This is why way back when a "man leaves his mother and father".
G3962
pat?´? pate¯r

pat-ayr'
Apparently a primary word; a "father" (literally or figuratively, near or more remote): - father, parent.
That is what he means. Joseph and others were not high priests. You are missing the general conception and inherent pragmatism here badly. Study more on this. It's pretty simple. You have taken a title upon yourself that really doesn't belong to you, unless you have literal children. If you are claiming to be a person in position of religious authority, you cannot be called "Father" is what Yeshua is relaying clearly. This has nothing to do with humble meek ones who want to "be a father" to someone else. You are however, in a position of headship in a church, therefore it is totally improper to be called "Father" when there is but One in that position according to the synoptic Matthew.

My point was that Jesus criticized the jewish leaders who love and strive for nothing but, as matt. 23: 6-7 reads, "the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men"

As I stated above, he was not litterally stating that we cannot call eachother father, weather literal physical father, or spiritual father, to refer to those people as fathers is only achknowleging the truth, which is not what this is all about. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood, or a particular kindor degree of fatherhood, to those who do not have it, such as the jewish leaders he was speaking of in the verse above.

There are many other verses that arn't meant for us to be taken literally, such as "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell" (Matt. 5:29)

As for the greek, i've read what you said twice now, and i don't get your point, maybe because its late and i'm tired, so forgive me if so, but in the verse he doesn't use the word pater(which was also used for literal fathers), he used rabbi, which is of hebrew origeon and didaskalos, which is the greek word for an instructor...

-

As for paul, his letters and the gospel of john... you remove books from the canon of sctipture, that would mean that there was no canon of scripture to begin with, and if not, who desided what would be included in our bibles today?

108

Hello everyone, first post.

by Frjprice in

jw
friends

hello, i just wanted to introduce myself to everyone here - as i will be posting here.. i grew up a jw and pioneered, was a ministerial servant, ect, i was in the organization for 17 years.

i left and naturally my family did as they were told and cut off all communication with me.

this left a horrible taste in my mouth for not just jw's, but any religion for that matter.

Frjprice

People do not need human intercessors between themselves and God.

I assume you are reffering to confession to priests?

In matthew chapter 16, we read starting in verse 13, "And Jesus came into the quarters of Cesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is? 14 But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets 15 Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?

16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.

We see peter answered, made a profession of faith.

17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

Jesus calls Simon Bar-Jona (son of Jona, or, Son of the Dove) blessed

18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Christ says that thou art Peter(or Petros in greek, which means Stone, or Rock) and then says upon this rock I will build my church. At this point, I sometimes have someone who has studied some greek so they say that the word Petros means equivilent to the word pebel today, that petra is the word for rock, which is somewhat true, in some early greek writings, long before christ's time, they did have a distinction, as they do in attic greek, but i'm sure we both know the bible was written in koine greek, and as both catholic and non-catholic greek scholars will agree, they can mean either in koine greek, just as stone in english can mean a large bolder or a small pebel.

Anyway, to continue -

19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

here we see christ give they keys to peter, saying whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven, that is, the authority of the church.

Now lets look at john chapter 20, starting in verse 19, we see the disiples gathers together in an upper room, jesus appears to them and says, peace be with you.

"He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you." 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them:Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

so we see christ pouring out the holy spirit and comissioning the disciples, and saying to them Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. Now, the disciples could forgive sins, if people didn't confess sins to them, how could they forgive them?

Now, one more scripture to tie it all in, And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ. - 2 Cor. 2:10

When we are ordained, in the laying of hands - what we call apostolic succession is passed on, that is, the line of succession back to the apostles is passed on to us. In this we can act 'in persona christi" that is, in the person of christ. We see this in the mass, when the priest says "This is my body", and in confession, "I absolve you of your sins, in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit, amen." - Its not the priests own power, but that of god's through the instrument of the priest.

You are titling yourself "Father" and people are expected to call you by that title, right? But clearly Yeshua of Nazareth gave specific Rabbinic instructions not to address any human being by that pious title. Not to be confused with a person who calls his dad "father" in a paternal genetic sense, but specifically dealing with teachers, he made this statement:
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your teacher, and all ye are brethren.Mat 23:9And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, even he who is in heaven.Mat 23:10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, even the Christ.

Ok, so are you saying that a child cannot call their parent father? Its almost common sense that we know that christ wasn't forbidding the use of the word in this way. What about scriptures such as "I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know" (Job 29:16)" ""So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt" (Gen. 45:8)"

So, we see that it applies also to wise counselers like joseph, but did that change in the NT? No, we read also he forbids to call someone rabbi, or, teacher, yet we hear numerous examples in the NT of those who are called teacher, even appointed teacher in the church, "God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers" (1 Cor. 12:28) Whereunto I am appointed a preacher and an apostle (I say the truth, I lie not), a doctor of the Gentiles in faith and truth. (1 Tim. 2:7)

Today we call those with a ph.d. a doctor, yet docter is the latin word for teacher, so can we take this verse literally?

Jesus was not forbidding us to call men "fathers" if they are actually a "father" weather literally, or spiritually.

Look at the apostles them selves, "To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2) "To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2) together with many other examples, where he calls Timothy my son, titus my child in a common faith, ect.

And, was timothy the physical child of Paul? no...

My second question, Mr. Price regards the following statement on your church's website:
The fee for each program is $50.00 and $25 for the
framed certificate (which includes shipping and handling
charges).

To start your biblical studies, please contact us via email
as to which course you would like to study and we will
issue you the materials needed via email.

Once again, the bible has something to say about this sort of thing as well:
(Mat 10:8)
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give.
(Rom 8:32)
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
(Rev 21:6) And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
I really don't see how you can ask people to blindly pay money to study what your religion is teaching, unless of course there is one major thing I have not considered... Is your church even bible based in any way?

Those are just as it says on the site, classes. They are not required in any way and do not teach the faith. When someone who is new to the church, there is the catechesis of that individual free, classes teaching core doctrine, faith and theology are of course at no charge.

So Mr. Price, what exactly is your real agenda for us?

I have no 'agenda', I just joined the board to discuss, to read and to hope for a mutual benefit to myself and others.

41

Catholics

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

jw
friends

so can someone please enlighten me why when people come out with their catholicism others find it necessary to remind them of their pope worshipping, mary praying traditions (sic)?.

.

Frjprice

am enrolled in RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation) and plan to be baptized next Easter. My husband, a lapsed cradle Catholic converted to JW now inactive for over ten years, says I've lost my mind.
Thanks to my new-found faith, I have finally begun to heal from a lifetime of JW nonsense.
-NanaR

Glory be to god!

As to why their is hostility toward catholics, it happens anywhere you go, and has since the reformation, you get used to it after a while :)

108

Hello everyone, first post.

by Frjprice in

jw
friends

hello, i just wanted to introduce myself to everyone here - as i will be posting here.. i grew up a jw and pioneered, was a ministerial servant, ect, i was in the organization for 17 years.

i left and naturally my family did as they were told and cut off all communication with me.

this left a horrible taste in my mouth for not just jw's, but any religion for that matter.

Frjprice

How is it you're a priest at 21 years of age?

I graduated hs from american school when I turned 16, left the JW's at 17. I went to ohio tech and got a degree in automotive at 18 1/2, enrolled in the old catholic seminary, based on previous theological knowlege the bishop I was currently under cut alot of my training at his discression. I had to change my thinking on some theology, take liturgical classes, history of the church, catechesis, homiletics, ect. and was ordained at 21 and 8 months on aug. 11th.

Im still trying to figure out why you went from being a JW to your current belief system. If you left the witnesses, then you are no doubt a researcher. It doesnt take much research to uncover a mountain of problems with the catholic beliefs, and tainted history. It seems to me that the Catholic belief system and practices, are primarily geared to control ignorant people and keep them in line. No offense please! Maybe im wrong, so please correct me. My first thoughts are that your either gay looking for acceptance.(which is fine!) Or that you like the feeling of power over people, and you like the authority that the term priest brings with it, in the eyes of the flock. You are way to young to be a real, recognized priest in any catholic faith, and I know that I could never respect any 21 year kid counseling me on marriage, kids etc.. Im sure that im confused and misled so please help me understand and clear up any misunderstandings. Thank you.

No offense taken, I have found no problems with the catholic belief system, everything makes perfict sense and can be proven, as it has been for 2000 years, thats why I'm catholic. As to why I chose to pursue the priesthood, my spiritual director thought that, through our conversations I was called to the priesthood, I agreed, so he recommended me to the office of vocations, after several interviews they recommended to the archbishop that I be considered for seminary, the rest is above.