thank you all for the warm welcome!
it has been so hard living, believeing that i am an anomaly.
i realize that there are others out there who have lived and expierenced what i have.
Hi Cassilene,
Just like to add my WELCOME.
It's pretty scary holding THAT book in your hands isn't it? Well just flip it open and get on with it. You won't get hit by a thunderbolt from heaven, only the thunderbolt-like realisation that the 'truth' IS'NT. Simple really.
I haven't read the follow up yet but I'm ordering it from Commentary asap. Let you know what I think.
Free
my father was rushed by ambulance from his rest home to st. marks hospital in salt lake city, utah friday, but i only just heard about it.
i received a call from the floor nurse and she told me he is not expected to live.
his lungs are filled fill up with fluid and are continuing to fill u with more fluid: he has pneumonia.
Farkel,
So sorry to hear of your loss.
Take care,
free
contrary to popular belief and what society and the media will portray satanism, devil worship and witchcraft are 3 very independent systems of belief, .
sure, to those who are afraid of looking into books dealing with the occult, for fear of being possessed or what have you, i write this as a vent because it makes me laugh when i hear people assume that the three are the same, they aren't, .
and the reality is that even though the three get bunched up as the same, many times it is the ignorance of the practitioners which keeps the ignorance alive.
I must admit to a certain curiosity and fear on these subjects. I have read books written by witches that scared the hell out of me. Maybe they were sensationalising their experiences but it certainly wasn't about getting at one with mother nature. I'll have to visit the library and get them out again to refresh my memory.
I've never met a Satanist (apart from one or two on the service years ago) but a friend of mine went out with one for a while. She says he used to nip out a lot late at night and leave her on her own so she pleaded to go with him. He took her to some dark secluded spot in the countryside and she waited at a distance while they acted pretty weird and was so terrefied she never asked to go again. A close friend of his told her to be careful cos he had done some awful things and she decided the romance had got too weird and broke it off. She says he took it well but freaked her out by saying he would always know where she was and would look out for her. Do you think he was having her on?
I don't know what to think really.
I'd like to believe these seemingly harmless definitions but my biblical upbringing is hard to shake off.
If Satanism is just selfishism isn't that the type of hedonistic spirit Satan would be delighted to see?
Still confused.
Free
women admit to regular lies .
nearly one in four british women would try to conceive without their partner's consent if they wanted a baby, research suggests.
a survey by women's magazine that's life!, found that many women are prepared to lie about almost any aspect of their life.
Don't even start me on the subject of fellas' lies.
As for me I have never allowed an untruth to slip from my lips...honest.
These surveys are crap though. I used to work for British Market Research Bureau and the surveys were badly constructed, miles too long and incredibly boring so most people lost interest and started saying anything to hurry you through it.
Oh how I loved that job...oops
Free
if jw's can be(or should i say are) df'd for smoking, why aren't people df'd for obesity.. it seems they say that you are violating your body and hurting it from smoking but i've never seen a person live over the age of 80 that was obese.
just seems like being obese is worse than smoking.
Cosmo,
I'm pleased to see you edited the reply you directed at me. I read it and felt it unwise to come back as you obviously took my post as an attack. For the same reason I will disregard your e-mail. I feel sure you understand how we all get a little emotional and I got stung when I was a newbie for taking things to heart.
As for the obesity thing yes I own up...I am a fat sod. I have battled all my life with the problem and am under a specialist for endocrinological problems. I have Polycystic Ovary Syndrome which means other problems including infertility so I am childless. I suppose I am pretty sensitive to remarks that seem to infer obesity is self-inflicted. Gluttony was brought up by another poster and I never suggested you had said that.
Smoking isn't my favourite subject either. I watched my Nana die of lung cancer. Enough said.
I know what you meant about the WT society. I sometimes felt that the counsel got a bit close about overweight and considering their deep love of control, control, control I'm surprised it hasn't become a DF offence.
So on the subject of offence try not to take it so easily and unless someone puts your name on the top of their post they are being general not directly hitting on you even if you set the thread off.
BTW as Individuals Wife said welcome to the board.
Free
with all the problems in the 'truth' and all the things that we know are wrong with it there seems to be aspects of their theology (i.e the sequences of the world powers, statue in daniel, the promise of world restoration again found in daniel) that to me still make sense.
although i cannot follow a religion that believes in the destruction of all humanity barring those that respond to their own preaching work i still believe in a creator and cannot accept the teachings of other religions that have no purpose for the earth and believe that mankinds only destiny is in heaven.
my mind keeps telling me that if god was behind a religion it would be so much better than that of the jws.
Hi Individual,
I can only use my own experience and I'm sure it varies from person to person but I think the key is TIME.
Really you are relatively fresh from the break-out and still in the disorientated stage feeling empty.
I was in it for 20 years and I've been out for 11. I have been digesting information about the WT society for 7 years. I have been through some weird stages in the recovery process but only recently have I felt healed and content not to have any answers. I take tentative steps toward God sometimes and know He is listening. I call Him simply Father. My hubby calls Him Allah. I believe the same supreme being cocks a fatherly ear.
One thing's for sure it takes a long time to shake off the indoctrination enough to even consider another faith or individuals ideas. You weigh everything against your Witness beliefs...and they aren't necessarily right are they?
Enjoy your life and be happy.
Free
if jw's can be(or should i say are) df'd for smoking, why aren't people df'd for obesity.. it seems they say that you are violating your body and hurting it from smoking but i've never seen a person live over the age of 80 that was obese.
just seems like being obese is worse than smoking.
ah yes,
obesity=gluttony
obesity is worse than smoking.
Seems to me that what you know about obesity could fit on the back of a postage stamp and leave room for your signature!!!!
Free
persecution: sometime around late 1973 early 1974, when jws everywhere were in eager anticipation of armageddon breaking out, we also feared something else.
prior to armageddon, there would be the great tribulation, and just about this time we expected heavy persecution, so much so, that is was hard to help bible studies (newbies) to get over this fear.. service meeting part: during a service meeting, the elder giving the part was speaking about such persecution and of course all this was prefaced with our obedience to jehovah and his organization, doing all the works, meetings, etc.
.... ... as he spoke, there was suddenly loud banging on all of our entry-exit doors.
Hi Amazing,
I can remember fearing the persecution that was coming. The Malawi thing seemed to confirm this and I can remember discussing how we would cope with beatings and torture with other young sisters.
Then there seemed to be a change of emphasis. There was talk of other countries receiving this 'hands-on' persecution but we in the western world had a different test facing us - MATERIALISM.
So then came endless talks on materialism all delivered by brothers with posh houses and fancy cars. Apparantly love of money was to be our problem. Wished I'd had some to love. Well at least they knew what they were talking about.
Free(still waiting for the money test)
i know there are people on this board who despite earnest efforts to reach the hearts of friends or family still in the wt org feel they have to give up or that they are flogging a dead horse.. someone very close to me is preparing herself to leave.
her heart has already left.
she finally sees the true colours of the organisation she has faithfully followed for over 30 years.. but it has not been easy or swift.
Thankyou for your replies.
I'd like to add this. I would love to 'come out' on this board full name etc. but I have not done so because until the person close to me is ready to leave I have to protect her identity. She is living in dread of the tag 'apostate'.
I think I have said enough things about myself on this board for anyone who knew me as a witness to know who I am. So in a sense I needn't bother.
As for my friend for the sake of some of you who have replied I might as well tell you my 'friend' is my MOTHER.
My mum's closest friend is already worried. They normally aux. pioneer together and my mum has been hardly going on the service. She still attends the meetings but has ceased commenting unless it is on a bible issue. Others have noticed this as well. She has also noticed a few special talks on associating with disfellowshipped family members.
Can you believe this? My mum stopped seeing me when I was DF'd. I did not see her for months on end. If we did meet up I practically had to duck down in her car because she ranted at me that a witness may be stumbled by seeing me in her car. For a number of reasons she mellowed including the terminal illness of my grandmother and subsequent death. Nana had been the loving gentle 'leader' and support of our family and my mum stepped into that role upon her death and became a better person and in my opinion a more sincere christian for doing so.
So how did we get through to her?
Take the Malawi/ Mexico stuff. It's old hat to many in here but what you have to keep reminding yourself is JW's just do not know it happened. They don't know 90% of the stuff you find in here.
I think the Malawi issue was the first of several articles my brother feverishly printed off on his first pc. Of course my mum reacted as if he was chucking acid at her but he challenged her that she was so under the society's thumb she would not dare read them. So my mum proved him wrong and as the years have passed she has read C of C and several others.
The blood issue has been a big one for her as well. Especially finding out her best friend could have had an RH injection to save her baby and refused it as a blood product and lost her only son. And the fact that JW's who do not give blood use blood fractions that have been produced using millions of pints of non-witness blood-the injustice and sheer hypocracy of this had her reeling.
What I found though was the need to back off. A lot.I sensed she had had enough. She went through a denial stage. So I left off. Never mentioned it. Bit back sarcastic comments when she mentioned meetings or service. I told her I understood and supported her decision to ignore all she now knew and remain a JW with her life-long friends.And slowly but surely she started asking little questions. She even revealed things that she didn't agree with in the mags etc. I researched every question she asked. I showed her threads in here, warts and all and explained to her about how crazy it can get with hundreds of different personalities bouncing ideas back and forth. She has read a few and it's opened up discussions. I'm still working on stuff she's asked me...can't wait till her pc's up and running so she can help LOL.
If my brother reads this (FlabbyCabby) thanks again bruv and lay off the pressure cos that's when she digs her heels in. She feels guilty and digging at her makes her worse. I know you are impatient but we've waited 7 years - I don't think we will have much longer to wait.
Hope our experience can help others keep hoping and trying. E-mail me if you need to talk.
Free
PS despite years of 'anti-witnessing' to her she always defended and argued angrily with us so when she told us she finally accepted it we were absolutely mute with shock. We never believed she would 'crack'.
Just goes to show...
the two horse race to be chosen as leader of the conservative party - the tories - is hotting up thanks to ex-prime minister margaret thatcher.. she has chosen to side with ian duncan-smith, whilst another ex-pm, john major, is siding with kenneth clarke.. personally i am delighted at margaret thatchers choice, because, like most of the world and the new york times,i can see that she is hopelessly and completely nuts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/25/international/europe/25brit.html.
to my mind, her support of duncan-smith almost assures ken clarke of victory, which is what i would like to see, and this is because i am a labour party supporter!.
Mmm,
Can't you see the political machine in motion? Obviously the Tories want Clarke and that is why they have taken the witch out of the wardrobe, dusted her down and with the clever use of ventriloquism she has been heard making supportive noises about...who? oh,Smith.
Free
