eclipse

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Posts by eclipse

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  24

  Naturalism-The Next Step For Secular Humanists?

  by nvrgnbk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've noticed a healthy number of secular humanists on jwd.. i thought i'd share this info.

  http://www.naturalism.org/.

  before the likes of people like poppers, james thomas, and tetra(people i have tremendous respect and admiration for that have taught me alot about existence) jump me for getting into "labels", i just want to mention that i'm not espousing this as "it".

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  eclipse

  Nvrgnbk, just curious,

  wallet is a euphemism for ......?
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  10

  OMG this is unreal

  by Grammy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://ewatchman-exposed.co.uk/research/.

  these people are so deluded...copied and pasted from the web site...grammy.

  apostate press releasehttp://ewatchman-exposed.co.uk/research/read.php?t=2697&reply=13#msg13 about 2 months ago i read an article about southren baptists and pedophiles.

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  eclipse

  below is an excerpt from the above link, discussion between 2 JW's....one of whom is a heartless PSYCHOPATH : grissom6471.

  grissom6471 -

  I called them cry-babys and so-called victims because the fact is that, your quoting of the Watchtower is for those who follow it. There are many who have been molested even by Witnesses who do not turn apostate and who do not sue anyone. Those are not crybabys. Those are not so-called victims. Those are ones who tears Jehovah has collected in the skin bottle and because of their faithfulness he has changed them from victims to conquerers.
  
  So Alpha and others, don't fall into the trap of mixing in apostates who have been molested and that they turn away from real assistance, with ones who are to get our sympathies and fellow feelings.
  
  I have no sympathy for anyone who sues a congregation or the Watchtower Society no matter what happened to them. Their actions insult all of those who remain faithful and endured such tribulation.

  [edit] [delete] Posted at 19:04 - 12/06/2007

  
  

  dttp -

  Grissom, you just may be the reason the WTS is paranoid about individual JWs defending the faith publicly.Maybe they have reason to be paranoid! Not only do you not present your views with sugar, your views themselves seem dangerous, and they regardless of the sugarcoating or not, are not in line with how most Jws feel, nor how the Governing Body themselves feel. They seem harsh and cold, why don't you ponder that for a minute.
  
  I am not judging you or anything, but rather just tossing that idea your way for your own consideration.
  
  This message was last edited at 22:56 - 12/06/2007

  [edit] [delete] Posted at 22:54 - 12/06/2007

  
  

  grissom6471 -

  dttp:
  
  You are saying that it is a sign of goodness and righteousness to hold grudges for years and to sue the congregation and the Society?
  
  You also need to consider that what the Society says is put in a very politically correct fashion. You have to remember that the Society, like early Christians, have to be politically correct about matters so as to not get the attention and ire of governments and people.
  
  The fact is that there is absolutely no reason for anyone who has every been hurt by Jehovah's Witnesses or anyone in any position in any religion to be holding such a grudge and suing them.
  
  People get over things. We all have been molested or abused in some manner or another in our lives. People, let it go and move on with their life. There are far more numerous examples of Witnesses staying faithful and overcoming badness than there is of those who have had bad times. In the Napa case, they were children in the 70s. I was a child in the 70s, I don't remember anything that happened in the 70s.
  
  
  Let me add, why do we care what the WTS is paranoid about or what the governing body thinks on matters? This is not a congregational issue. They are only involved with congregational matters.
  
  And how many Witnesses participated in the Nazi war crime tribunals? Or did they just put that behind them and let the nations do what they may?
  
  This message was last edited at 09:51 - 13/06/2007

  [edit] [delete] Posted at 09:17 - 13/06/2007

  
  

  dttp -

  Regardless if they forge a baseless suit against someone not responsible fort their victimhood does not change the fact they are "victims", calling them "so-called" victims is cold.
  
  Still, victims because of the abuse they underwent can be excused for doing irrational things. The crack about the WT only making PC comments to appease the goverment or the public is inconsistent with the facts. Good Lord Man.
  
  This message was last edited at 10:15 - 13/06/2007

  [edit] [delete] Posted at 10:09 - 13/06/2007

  
  

  grissom6471 -

  If those who had been abused had just done what Witnesses were supposed to do, everything would have been just fine. But they chose the course of following satan and rebelling thus making themselves enemies of God. I called them so-called victims because they have made themselves enemies of God and thus we can't empathize with them. We can't say "I feel your pain", when they returned to the vomit.
  
  Well, the Society has said and printed many politically correct things just to appease the government, such as that Christians should pay taxes and obey laws and then basing it on Romans 13. When the fact was that Paul said that just to be politically correct so that he could never be accused of telling others not to obey the laws and pay taxes as Jesus was accused of that. Jesus paid taxes simply so as to not stumble others. With those articles the Society could not be accused of telling others not to pay taxes or obey laws because they have many articles saying that people should.
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  30

  What if she hadn't eaten the fruit?

  by michael downing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  based solely on whats available in the genesis account, what would happen if eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "serpent" in perpetuity questioning god's motives?

  would she be punished for this exercise of free will?.

  i ask the question because my personal belief is that if the genesis account is in fact allegory, then what comes after it should be awarded no more acknowledged efficacy that what we prescribe to aesop, confucius or any other pragmatic, non-theistic value-set that has survived history .

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  eclipse

  Murdered Jobs children, servants, and physically abused him

  ...which was sanctioned and ok'd by God himself..

  The children of Job were the only ones recorded being murdered by Satan. The god of the OT killed tens of thousands of humans.

  Just stating a fact.

  It seems easy to pin the term evil on a character who is called evil, but if god does the same thing, it's ok. I don't think Satan was a nice guy, but I think his reputation of evil far exceeding the things he actually was recorded of doing. Satan, to me, is a bitter child rebelling against his father. I wonder if the angel called Satan was sincerely sorry, asked for forgiveness, if it would be granted to him.

  But I digress, I am going off-topic again.
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  30

  What if she hadn't eaten the fruit?

  by michael downing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  based solely on whats available in the genesis account, what would happen if eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "serpent" in perpetuity questioning god's motives?

  would she be punished for this exercise of free will?.

  i ask the question because my personal belief is that if the genesis account is in fact allegory, then what comes after it should be awarded no more acknowledged efficacy that what we prescribe to aesop, confucius or any other pragmatic, non-theistic value-set that has survived history .

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  eclipse

  God said that by eating the fruit they would die. It was the act of disobedience that led to their eventual death. Satan is called the father of the lie, but off the top of my head, I can't think of any place in the bible where he actually lies.

  Excellent point.

  I can't recall where Satan lied either.

  You could either say that Satan respected Jesus' request or he didn't want to get pounded on by a legion of angels.

  I think it was a combination of both....
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  30

  What if she hadn't eaten the fruit?

  by michael downing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  based solely on whats available in the genesis account, what would happen if eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "serpent" in perpetuity questioning god's motives?

  would she be punished for this exercise of free will?.

  i ask the question because my personal belief is that if the genesis account is in fact allegory, then what comes after it should be awarded no more acknowledged efficacy that what we prescribe to aesop, confucius or any other pragmatic, non-theistic value-set that has survived history .

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  eclipse

  True enough he did.

  I didnt say all men, did i? i didnt mean all men...
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  15

  How Far Out of Mind Control Do You Want to Go?

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many of us have come a long way out of the wt imposed "mind control" some much further than others, some still beleive in the judaochristian god and the bible, while other have gone much futher.. but how far have you gotten out of government mind control?

  most of us have been indoctrinated from birth by our parents and then when we went to governement subsidized schools and were further indoctrinated there.

  how far out of this form of mind control have you been able to get out of?.

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  eclipse

  still_in74,

  Think of your guilt like a great big anvil.

  It doesn't really serve a purpose unless you're a blacksmith.

  It's extremely heavy, and does nothing but slow you down...but you still insist on carrying it...all you have to do, is put it down.

  I know it sounds too simple. But I mean it, you have the choice and the power to let it go. Just refuse to let the guilt have power over you.

  You are the one in control.

  You are the one making decisions for your own life and for your family. Take back your power, take back control, let go of the guilt,

  it does not serve any useful purpose. Guilt is a tool of oppresive religions. It's a tool of an abusive parent/god.

  You have a conscience, you use it. Guilt is not necessary to lead a good life and be a good person.
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  63

  So....What Do You Think Happens When We Die???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are we going to heaven hell, purgatory?

  are we able to sense anything?

  do we really die??

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  eclipse

  We turn into red M&M's.
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  30

  What if she hadn't eaten the fruit?

  by michael downing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  based solely on whats available in the genesis account, what would happen if eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "serpent" in perpetuity questioning god's motives?

  would she be punished for this exercise of free will?.

  i ask the question because my personal belief is that if the genesis account is in fact allegory, then what comes after it should be awarded no more acknowledged efficacy that what we prescribe to aesop, confucius or any other pragmatic, non-theistic value-set that has survived history .

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  eclipse

  Let me for a moment, believe that the Genesis account is true.

  If it is true, and if there was a real tree that contained the knowledge of good and evil....(why create a tree simply for test purposes only?)

  And the tree of life helped them maintain their physical minds & bodies so that they could live forever indefinitely.

  God would not have created that tree for nothing...I do not think it was only for a test. I think it had a real purpose for being there. I think that over time, as Adam and Eve grew older and more knowledgable about raising children, gathering food, building shelters...or however they would live in the garden of eden as they expanded it's border.

  I think God meant for that fruit to be eaten eventually by Adam and Eve once they were mature enough to grasp the knowledge they would then experience.....having full knowledge prematurely made them feel ashamed...so they hid. - like a child losing their innocence :(

  That's my theory of ''what if'' she didn't succumb to the temptation....I think God would of let them eat of it eventually to gain knowledge at the right time.

  And then Satan would not of won, Adam and Eve would of had the knowledge of Satan's existence (if Satan is depicted as evil) , so they would not be tempted to worship or follow Satan. Or, God would of kept satan in heaven, not letting him on the earth anymore to try and seduce their offspring because satan blew his one chance deal at getting humans to succumb to temptation.

  That's my theory.
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  9

  If they have a 'Good Heart' Jehovah will assure they get the 'Troof'

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i can't recall how many times i heard this tripe as a jw, especially following a sincere question regarding how people in china or india would have the same chance to hear it as those in the us.. i often wondered how god would account things at armageddon - would it go something like this?;.

  " now as for you, mitmah and family.

  you have lived your entire lives in the depths of the burmese jungles.

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  eclipse

  SIL - "Nobody innocent will die at Armagedon."

  What a lovely sentiment. Does she not remember reading when Jehober murdered women and children who were not Isrealites...were they not ''innocent''? How do they differ from the ''worldly'' children who are going to be hit with Armegeddon? No difference....those children will die because their parents are not JW's. Anyone who reads the mags and who doesn't accept a study is going to perish.
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  14

  Jehovah Witnesses and inheritance

  by sweetums in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am not a witness but i would like to ask you a question.

  is it common practice for jw's to will all of their "worldly" possessions to witness relatives only?

  are they encouraged to do so by the borg?

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  eclipse

  the first thing she said to me was, "Satan must have helped you find this out"...

  JW's have got to be the most superstitous, ignorant, uneducated MORONS.

  Do they realize how IGNORANT they sound?

  No, because they are brainwashed sheep who follow the borganization without their own thoughts.

  Sorry this has happened to you...

  some JW's are actually kind hearted and caring, but many, are like your mother-in-law - STUPID & SELFISH.