Posts by flipper

32

The Religion Of Rejection - And Now That Includes Me

by dubstepped in

due to some recent developments i find myself in a new place, and at this point i've lost all of my family and fri....oh that's right, i never really had any friends in the organization anyway.

just people that wanted something from me and a few people that i would invite to do things that occasionally said yes.

the recent rejections of me got me thinking, so let's take a rejection inventory.. i had to reject all of the holidays when my parents started studying.. i had to reject any worldly friends that i already had.. even family became rejected, and the new religion had some place in that.. i was rejected in school and bullied all of the time, not just because we were poor and i made good grades, but for jw reasons too.

flipper

DUBSTEPPED- What a very heartfelt opening thread. I'm so sorry you've been treated so inhumanely. Many of us ( myself included ) have and are being treated the exact same way by family still who are JW's. Please be assured of our love and my wife and I are here as a support to you and your wife as friends, O.K. ? Take care and hang in there

39

Need someone to talk to

by Anonymous17 in

hi i've been a jw my whole life and i'm 17 now.

i've never had a mine of my own and recently i started thinking more open minded and i know the being a jw isn't for me.

i feel like i've been in a bubble my whole life.

flipper

ANONYMOUS - NIce to have you here ! Welcome to the board. I was born and raised in the Witnesses from birth also- but didn't exit until age 44 about 12 years ago. DON'T be THAT me. ( Like the commercial )

Do you have ANY relatives or good adult friends outside the JW religion who would be a support system for you and help you make plans for a college education ? It's important to finish High School and apply yourself to learning and once you start college studying subjects you are interested in- college will HELP you expand your thinking ability to develop critical thinking skills needed to survive in the work world and the REAL adult world - not the fictitious JW world.

Also Freemindfade 's advice is great about continuing to do more and more research on the Internet so you will be making an informed decision about not joining the Witnesses. It will solidify the doubts you already have in your mind by seeing that the doubts ARE reality and extremely valid.

Be respectful to your JW folks- but that doesn't mean that you have to go to mind numbing meetings. As you turn 18 you'll need even more support from non-JW friends and family so I recommend feeding those relationships in a positive way as there will probably be a fallout and negative reaction from your JW folks and their friends for your decision to NOT be a JW. So these are just some things I can think of. We are here as friends to you also and as a support. We've " been there, experienced this " so please know that you are not alone, O.K. ? Hang in there take care

54

What's the Worst Gossip You Heard About Why You were DF'ed, Faded or Left and Never Came Back? They say "I am gay!"

by PhilsWager2 in

your going to enjoy the latest rumor i heard why i have not been to meeting for around nine months, i am a homosexual!

i was caught having a drink at one of the gay bars for business, yes people still talk business in bars.

revelation 17:4).and murderers, and fornicators (cf.

flipper

I've had so many JW's say things about me it's so surreal.

About a year after I stopped attending in 2003 at the end of 2004 - an elder who had it out for me in my final congregation I attended saw me in an antique store and came up to me and asked, " Are you still with the woman that you got with right after you broke up with wife #2 ( non-JW ) ? " I said, " Uh, no. I wasn't " with " her she was just a friend " . He said, " Well - Someone told me that you went on a cruise to Mexico with your new girlfriend right after you broke up with wife # 2 ( who was a meth freak by the way ). " I looked him in the eye and said, " Listen, I've NEVER , EVER even BEEN on a cruise in my entire life. Somebody told you the story wrong. It was my wife # 2 that I split UP with who went on a cruise with her 17 year old daughter after we split ! I don't think they have an intimate relationship going . " ( So message to elder- nothing to see here folks - move on )

But it shows how NOSY they are into our lives and they respect NO personal boundaries whatsoever. After I stopped attending my ex-wife # 1 ( fanatic JW ) told my then teenage daughters that I was " rebellious " because I disagreed with the elders. I've been shunned in parking lots even though I say " hi " to the JW , my adult daughters still shun me, rumors of gossip about me being " apostate " continue even though I've minded my own business living an hour and a half away from where I used to live with my first JW wife. The smear campaign has been definitely well done and cooked up.

Part of that may be because I won an appeal on my DFing some years ago- so the elders and others cannot stand it when an inactive JW wins and they lose. So it's a case of my winning the battle, but losing the war type thing regards JW's having anything to do with me. But you know what ? I don't care. I'm happier without all those caustic, energy sucking psychos out of my life anyway. I'm surrounded by people who REALLY value me- and that is what matters

34

[Day 8 - 14/8]Governing Body, Geoffrey Jackson - Royal Commissions On Child Sexual Abuse, Australia. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

the big day finally arrived!

these amazing royal commission proceedings are available on youtube :).

part 1 has been uploaded and part 2 will soon be available.. part 1:.

flipper

Thanks Orphan Crow & Umbertoecho- I thought it might be a good idea to give a blow by blow since watching Jackson's almost 3 hour testimony is 3 hours of my life I'll never get back ! LOL ! Figured I'd make that time worthwhile. The guy was so Witnessy it was pathetic.

So here are my notes on part 2 Day 8 -

2:00 to 3:00 Angus Stewart asks Jackson, : " If a person wants to leave your organization musn't they dissociate or get DFed ? " Jackson states, : " They don't have to dissociate. They can tell anybody they want that they aren't JW's . " Uh-huh.

4:50 to 6:00 Angus Stewart attempts to read WT instructions contradicting Jackson and Jackson rudely interrupts Stewart and says, " they have total freedom. If they don't want to be JW's nobody prevents them from doing so. "

7:15 to 8:00 Angus Stewart unswayed states, : " They are still held accountable if inactive when they break the rules of the organization. "

8:30 Jackson starts playing " dumb " and states, : " It's not my field I don't understand." Stewart replies, : " Well Mr. Jackson it IS your field, correct ? You've been a GB member for 10 years now. " Stewart continues and asks, " If an inactive JW celebrates Christmas could he be DFed for doing so ? Is he still held accountable by the church ? Jackson replies, " No, I disagree he would not get DFed. "

11:00 to 13:00 Angus Stewart like a dog with a bone in his mouth continues and says to Jackson, : " Isn't it true that an inactive JW is still subject to the organization's rules ? If two elders call on an inactive person's door and asks if they still want to be a JW and the answer is " No " - won't that person be DFed ? " Jackson replies , : " No, that doesn't happen . " Then Jackson claims elders try to readjust the person, blah, blah.

14:00 to 17:35 Angus Stewart continues and doesn't let up , he asks, : " A person inactive is still subject to the discipline of the church, correct ? If elders found a person living in sin would they discipline that person if inactive ? " Jackson admits , " In that case the person could be DFed. Remaining JW members cannot associate with him " Jackson continues, " We don't have a spiritual " police force " running around spying on people. But Stewart makes his point by saying, " You're either IN the organization or you're OUT of the organization. "

18:00 to 20:00 Jackson still stubbornly refuses to admit that the elders will DF inactive ones for celebrating Christmas. And Angus Stewart remarks, : " Well, what choice do inactive ones have ? They are faced with gaining their freedom from the organization on the one hand- but losing their family and friends on the other hand . "

20:00 to 22:00 Angus Stewart dug deeper he asks , : " It's a difficult choice for a person who has been sexually abused to leave the organization. Does shunning these abused ones harmonize with the JW's views of Christianity ? "Jackson replies, " You are jumping to conclusions " .

22:00 to 24 :00 Stewart continues and asks, : " You baptize young people, even at age 11. Is someone old enough to make a decision like that which will affect the rest of their lives ? Jackson states, " Oh yes, I've known plenty of people who are still faithful to their decision years later holding true even though they were baptized young. " Stewart turns up the heat and asks, " Indeed, where else will they go ? They have to stay in it or they'll be shunned. " Then Jackson coldly states, " Anything is possible. "

24:00 to 25 :30 Angus Stewart says, : " Shunning is in conflict with JW's belief of freedom or choice of religion. It is dishonoring the thought of a compassionate and loving God. " Stewart states, " In fact isn't it true that Jehovah's Witnesses are a " captive organization " ? Jackson disagrees. Stewart asks , : " Will your organization change their policy of shunning ? " Jackson emphatically states," no , we will not. "

26:00 to 28:00 Stewart states, " Your organizations policies on child abuse HAVE caused many problems. " Jackson replies, : " We have made changes . "

28:00 Jackson states, : " The GB is always interested in refining our policies. There is love among the organization. We treat victims with love. " Uh-huh.

29:00 to 34:00 Judge McClellan asks Jackson, : " Would the organization apologize to child abuse victims ? " Jackson replied, " We've apologized about other things in the past . " ( yeah- right. Liar. ) McClellan asks, : " Would the GB compensate child abuse victims ? Jackson replies, " There is a possibility for us to give help to the victims. "

34:00 to 38:00 Judge McClellan asks, : " What does the church do about helping the abused child when there is only 1 eyewitness to the crime ? " Jackson says, " The elders let the parents or guardian know that they can take it to the authorities. " Jackson continues as if making excuses, " What happens in the home is beyond the jurisdiction of the elders. But everyone is put on alert. " ( Another untruth )

38:00 to 40:00 Jackson states that , " We hope that the conscience of the elders would inform the police. " McClellan asks him, " Are there written instructions given ? " Jackson says, " We make the families aware of their rights " Jackson continues, " We are adjusting our policies. We put restrictions on the child molesters associating with minors " .

44:00 to 50:00 BGC's attorney states how her client received NO comfort from elders with her child abuse situation. She said, " My client was told to take solace in the coming Paradise and was just given scriptural guidance as comfort. " BGC's attorney said, " Your organization's methods need to improve. Child abuse victims need help NOW more help needs to be given. Just giving scriptural guidance can be more damaging.

57:00 to 1:02 Jackson seemed to indicate that children's testimony could be " less truthful " giving the example of one divorcing parent turning the child against the other one. " McClellan asked Jackson, " How would testimony of a child be doubted anymore than an adult where it involves child abuse ? " Jackson states, " We just have to be more cautious if an unbeliever is testifying or if they are DFed - has to be weighed carefully as they may have a vendetta against the organization. "

So that's about all I have. It was very interesting. I feel Mr. Stewart and McClellan and BGC's attorney extracted about as much as they're going to get out of this mind controlled GB member. They made him shake in his boots a little- but you can tell he's definitely a company man. I hope they abolish the two witness rule. It's so stupid. And as Angus showed not scripturally relevant . Take care, let's save the children ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

49

GEOFFREY JACKSON THE PERSONABLE FACE OF JW.ORG...BUT IT AIN'T OVER YET BUDDY

by steve2 in

since geoffrey jackson's appearance before the australian royal commission on friday there has for some been an expressed feeling of anticlimax.

it is as though he was given too much latitude to preach, to claim ignorance and to skirt questions.

more to the point, as much as i myself thought i would never have expected to say this, gj actually came across as likeable and - don't throttle me please!

flipper

I think Jackson wasted at least a half hour of valuable time just answering many questions with a " I'd like a chance to explain that...... " then go into some diatribe for 5 minutes or so doing the JW thing of switching subjects several times. Each time Stewart and McClellan had to reel Jackson back in like a fish trying to wiggle off the hook

34

[Day 8 - 14/8]Governing Body, Geoffrey Jackson - Royal Commissions On Child Sexual Abuse, Australia. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

the big day finally arrived!

these amazing royal commission proceedings are available on youtube :).

part 1 has been uploaded and part 2 will soon be available.. part 1:.

flipper

O.K. Wife and I watched the entire part 1 of Day 8 GB Jackson's testimony. Here's a few points I got from watching :

The guy is totally smug and arrogant and condescending. But Stewart and the judge were up to the challenge.

15:30 to 17:30 Jackson tries to read a scripture from Acts explaining how the congregation was to " select 7 men from among themselves " to handle responsibilities. Then Angus Stewart replies , " I think the proper application of that scripture says that a broader congregation of believers would appoint those 7 men, not just them appoint themselves. " Jackson - seeming flustered said condescendingly , " This is the problem when trying to explain our arrangement from the scriptures to secular authorities. "

25:00 to 28:00 Jackson states : " We get research and input from others " This contradicts what was stated in a WT article a couple years ago.

32:00 to 34:00 Jackson states : " It's very rare that congregations receive letters from the GB " and he adds " policy letters may be adjusted locally by the branches involved" . Yeah right.

44:00 to 46:00 Judge McClellan states that : " Children have incapacity to report child abuse. You have heard it's said children should be heard, not seen ? What's your organization's view of this ? Jackson states : " We encourage children to communicate and express themselves to parents. "

48:00 to 50:29 Jackson states : " Our church accepts the family arrangement as outlined in the Bible. " When asked by McClellan if the JW's accept corporal punishment , Jackson states, " no ".

51:00 Judge McClellan states : " The roles of women on our modern society have changed. Women in your organization have expressed concerns about difficulty meeting with elders having to discuss child abuse with them at JC meetings. "

53:00 to 54:00 Jackson replies : " The role of women in our organization is a " very dignified " role and they are not treated as " second rate citizens ". He continued, " They are very happily married women in the JW marriages. " What's THIS guy been smoking ?

54:00 to 55:00 Judge McClellan asks : " Why can't women be allowed to contribute to child abuse policies ? " Jackson replies , " There is no leeway in JW's beliefs about women taking the lead. "

55:00 Jackson seems rattled and stutters : " Your honor we've made changes regarding child abuse. Victims don't have to go before a committee of 3 elders about the abuse. " Which is a lie- unless the change was made in the last few days. Jesus.

1:02 to 1:04 Jackson indicates that a woman may possibly " assist " in an investigation of child abuse but the final judging decisions are only for men in a JC.

1:04 to 1:06 Jackson states : " The judicial system we have in the congregations isn't in competition with the criminal justice system " . Uh-huh.

1:07 Judge McClellan states : " There is a lack of women as judges in your organization ? How do you think this makes women feel ? "

1:08 Jackson replies : " In the roles that these elders serve- they are " friends " to those in the congregations. They make decisions based on the " spiritual " cleanliness of the congregation - it's for police to look into the crime of it in the justice system. ( Once again Jackson trying to dissolve any responsibility of the GB or WT elders to report ) passing the buck.

1:11 to 1:15 Judge McClellan appearing miffed asks : " It's such a difficult experience women would feel more comfortable explaining her abuse to another woman- would she not ? "

1:13 to 1:17 Jackson states : " I cannot answer in regards to how a woman feels. I know the Bible states that it's not possible for a woman to judge. They are not involved in the decision making in judicial committees.

1:18 to 1:19 Judge McClellan states : " Your process in the judicial committees are only determined by the elders if allegations of child abuse are true or false. Could the process be modified by a body including women ? "

1:18 to 1:19 Jackson states : " We could check the scriptures and research to see how women could be used in the process. " ( Like they will ? ) Uh-huh.

1:23 to 1:27 Jackson gets on his soapbox and starts preaching, he says : " It must be the elders who make decisions. The Bible talks about the " headship principle " " ( then reads the scripture ) Jackson continues, " Men make the final decisions ; it doesn't mean there is no input from women. " Then he reads the scripture about women remaining silent in the congregation, only to question their husbands in private. He states that women were debating with men in the congregation.

1:29 Jackson states , : " Someone who reads the Bible their whole life can understand it " . ( Indicating himself I imagine as opposed to the " heathen " Australian commission he's talking to. ) LOL.

1:30 : Jackson states, " It's just that we don't want women jumping up arguing excitedly with others. "

1:32 to 1:34 Angus Stewart asks , : " Is there a scriptural direction not to report child abuse ? " Jackson uses the excuse, " If Australia made it mandatory to report- it would make it so much easier for us. "

1:37 Angus Stewart asks , : " Do you report child abuse to the authorities if other children are at risk in a family ? " Jackson replies , : " The guardian of the parent has the responsibility to report the abuse. A report should be made to the authorities- elders consciences should move them to report. "

1:41 to 1:50 Angus Stewart uses an example from the Hebrew scriptures indicating that a man who rapes a woman was to be put to death only though SHE the victim was the only eyewitness. Then Angus asks Jackson, : " So we see it's NOT necessary even in the Scriptural sense to have two eyewitnesses to child abuse is it ? " Jackson replies ridiculously, " I'd like to ask Jesus Christ that in the future. "

1:46 to 1:50 Angus Stewart states that , : " The 2 witness rule needed could be the circumstances involved as well. " He proves his point by showing how elders stake out homes all night lying in wait to see if someone has committed adultery with another- all based on circumstance. " Why not the same in child abuse cases ? "

Then it broke for lunch. Just wanted to share parts of this Day 8 part 1 for those who didn't have time to watch. Take care. Will be back hopefully later for Part 2 description

28

The sheer lunacy of Jackson's view regarding mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse.

by DATA-DOG in

lunacy?

insanity?

without a doubt.

flipper

Very good thread. Thanks for posting. My thoughts on this are even IF Jackson and the GB were not instructed by the " superior authorities " to report child abuse within the JW's - out of moral obligation to the victims, the victims family, and their moral obligation to "God" who the elders CLAIM to be appointed by - they still have a responsibility to report child abuse crimes to police. Clergy penitent privilege notwithstanding. It doesn't matter. The danger of allowing child molesters free roam in society in general- trumps any penitent situation or confidentiality.

AND - There is always Romans 13:1,2 which insists that if anybody does nOT follow the " superior authorities " lead or direction they could be found fighting against " God " since " God " put these authorities into place to execute justice- according to the scripture. So Jackson and the current GB are REALLY screwed if they are fighting even against the Bible- in view of their stand

23

WARNING: SEXUAL PREDATOR ON THE LOOSE IN NEW MEXICO!

by Penelope1 in

im mad as hell!

how many times is another child molester going to get away with murder before the watchtower bible & tract society decides to do something about it?!.

a close friend who left the org.

flipper

PENELOPE- I'm terribly sorry to hear about this. It's disgusting how many thousands of pedophiles have been, and are currently on the loose running around the U.S. and the world inside the JW organization abusing more children. I agree with JW Daughter- if you know about this yourself- report it to the police authorities in New Mexico or try finding out who the victims were and help empower their family to seek justice. Especially since you've experienced this before- you realize all the variables and consequences involved. I'm out here in Northern California and I'll be glad to do what I can as well- just PM me the details in a private message - I'd be glad to contact the police by mail or whatever assistance is needed.

Exposure about WT child abuse needs to come out as the Australia Commission is even grilling GB members now- no longer should child molestation be tolerated at all. Hang in there, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

34

[Day 8 - 14/8]Governing Body, Geoffrey Jackson - Royal Commissions On Child Sexual Abuse, Australia. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

the big day finally arrived!

these amazing royal commission proceedings are available on youtube :).

part 1 has been uploaded and part 2 will soon be available.. part 1:.

flipper

I've only watched the first 15 minutes carefully as I've been working a lot this week. Will watch the rest of Jackson's testimony tomorrow. However this is what I've gleaned so far in the first 15 minutes.

He's a total suck up to Angus Stewart. He's trying to be " thankful " and show respect- but this guys personality is about as dry as toast not buttered. He admitted as some have stated that " 30 people " assist the GB with attaining information in this writing or teaching department - but what was good was that at least he admitted that the " 30 people " have to answer to the GB and the GB has to approve these suggestions. I'll check in tomorrow and comment some more. My wife watched more and said it does get more interesting along the way. Thanks for posting this- it's a hell of a lot to watch but worth it in the end

49

Why won't they simply change policy on sex offenders? Will they?

by punkofnice in

why won't they (the wbt$ head honchos), simply change policy on sex offenders?

will they?..especially after the arc for eg?

it seems that with all the bad press and now the arc among other institutions that are exposing the wbt$ for a haven for paedophiles, why hasn't the wbt$ simply changed it's insane policy?.

flipper

Too much pride and arrogance. They refuse to admit to mistakes. WT leaders never admit to mistakes - they cannot risk showing they are wrong in front of the rank and file JW's - otherwise it exposes them for what they really are- normal humans who bleed red if they are cut. Nothing special at all. The emperor would have no clothes and everybody leaves the religion. Of course that will never happen. People are stupid and want somebody to tell them what to do - even if the ones telling them what to do don't know their own ass from a hole in the ground