Posts by flipper

24

Org is going to appeal!

by The Searcher in

the english woman who has been awarded 275,000 compensation for being abused by the ministerial servant paedophile, will now have to wait while the org fights to keep hold of its precious money, by appealing the court's decision.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33201010.

flipper

What Brokeback Watchtower said - exactly

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

flipper

ON THE WAY OUT- I'm glad that the JW's had you as an elder to assist victims of child abuse and an elder like you who did the right thing in protecting the safety of others in your congregations. There needed to be more elders like you ! Good job. Like you mention it's interesting that the elders would go straight to the police if someone reported a murder in the congregation - but not child abuse. Of course, probably the x-factor is the legal liability which freaks out WT legal so they request elders to contact them FIRST before the police. But as you mention child abuse needs to be treated just as seriously as murder in order to get JW elders to do the right thing. But getting that message into most of their heads is indeed difficult due to the WT programming and indoctrination.

LISA ROSE- Thanks for that quote from Albert Einstein, very good quote which I totally agree with. Elders are complicit with the WT Society when even the good men among them choose to do nothing to curtail child abuse or report it to police authorities. And that is the point I'm making in the thread topic that there is liability and responsibility here.

JHINE- It's good to hear that your church, or your diocese has trained people to assist child abuse victims and others- the only thing JW elders are trained by the WT Society for is to counsel others so as to keep WT organization interests first- JW members interests second, or not at all.

DESIROUS of CHANGE- Exactly. Either shoot the victim or throw them under the proverbial bus. WT organization is NOT a " user friendly " organization

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

flipper

VIDIOT- Very good point. NON-JW authorities have a much better track record in dealing with child molestation than the WT Society. At least they consider it a more serious offense for crying out loud

24

Children of murdered Charleston minister have "already forgiven" their Mother's killer.

by nicolaou in

i'm not judging these poor young people, if this is how they are coping with the trauma of losing their mum i can only wish them well.

i have to admit though that my jaw dropped when i first saw this interview, i couldn't square their reaction with what i understand as 'normal' human grief.. is this religiously motivated form of forgiveness a positive thing?

should i acknowledge this as something to be said in favour of religion?.

flipper

" Better to celebrate the life of the lost than give more attention to the killer "

I agree with you Simon , exactly - however- for these religious followers to be openly "forgiving " this insane murderer in open media is almost thanking him for murdering their relatives and family. I mean WTF ? In essence the " forgiveness " these victims family are doing almost exalts the guy to " saint " status. You know- " Oh poor him, he was mentally insane dear God forgive him , because he knows not what he does. " I don't buy into it, not for a minute. The guy needs to fry

24

Children of murdered Charleston minister have "already forgiven" their Mother's killer.

by nicolaou in

i'm not judging these poor young people, if this is how they are coping with the trauma of losing their mum i can only wish them well.

i have to admit though that my jaw dropped when i first saw this interview, i couldn't square their reaction with what i understand as 'normal' human grief.. is this religiously motivated form of forgiveness a positive thing?

should i acknowledge this as something to be said in favour of religion?.

flipper

NICOLAOU- I agree with your views- totally. I understand that these young people are coping in the only way they've been TRAINED or TOLD by religion to cope with this - and therein lies the problem. It's the same thing that happens to JW's when they are mind controlled or indoctrinated to confess to " sins " due to allegedly having " born-in imperfections " due to the alleged " inherited sin " from " Adam " and " Eve ". Or why JW's overlook child abuse, murders, rape - then go to preach in prisons trying to "reform " jackasses who've raped, killed, or molested multiple people . It's bullshit. Utter crap.

Organized religion uses situations of violence, murder, rape, child molestation and on and on- to justify trying to find an answer or " reason " for why people do these crimes. So in order to help religious people to " cope " or try to find an answer they superstitiously tell them to " forgive " a piece of shit murderer like this 21 year old piece of filth so they can find some kind of answer or solace. There IS no answer. There IS no rhyme or reason to it. There are just disgustingly perverted sick people on this planet who have put horrid views of prejudice into their brains by whatever they are reading, whomever they are surrounding themselves with as associates, and whatever demented twisted views they have of themselves as some kind of half-ass messenger from " God " thinking they need to do an " ethnic cleansing " of different races- whether that be African American, Native American, Asian - whatever - it's injustice that has fermented at it's worst in the twisted mind of a 21 year old white supremacist who should be locked up and the key thrown away.

Better yet - let him suffer the same way our African American brothers and sisters did in the 1800's - let the courts take his ass and hang him in a tree in Charleston and lynch his ass. See how he responds to that. I doubt he'll respond after it's accomplished.

Some may feel I'm being too severe here- I don't care. I am speaking truth. America has gone WAY too soft on crime and WAY too soft on not doing mandatory checks on what kind of insane people purchase firearms. If there are no criminal background checks on people purchasing firearms or NO check on their mental health history- there will be lots more of these kind of murders folks. Strap your helmets on - we're all going to need tough skin if the government or authorities does nothing to stem the tide of racism, incompetent check systems for firearm purchases, or incompetent police.

All religion does is put a disguise or bandage on this violence without explain it adequately. All fantasy. Time for the bandage to be ripped off

7

Well, well, the Huff Post has an article about the JW saying "mentally Diseased apostates"

by nonjwspouse in

it's good to see a widely read site such as the huff post link to this article, and below it are 5 more links to similar articles .

.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/28/jehovahs-witness-magazine_n_985479.html.

flipper

Thanks for posting the links on the Huffington Post report. It's good whenever ANY exposing of WT Society unjust practices gets into the media in any way, shape, or form for sure. Interesting article

21

9 dead in ‘hate crime’ shooting at historic African American church in Charleston

by pronomono in

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/17/white-gunman-sought-in-shooting-at-historic-charleston-african-ame-church/.

this is such a shame.

i've always thought about things like this happening because of how crazy some people are, especially in regards to religion.

flipper

" I believe in a citizen's right to have firearms. "

I disagree if it's a bat-shit crazy citizen who has been diagnosed as mentally incompetent to possess a firearm. There NEEDS to be some laws put into effect through legislation that people with serious mental instability who have been diagnosed as such by doctors and it's been documented and recorded , i.e. schizophrenia, bi-polar, manic depressive -especially those with a violent past and it's been documented should NOT receive firearms. Period. And have these records accessible to gun dealers through computers in their respective stores.

Of course I realize this won't stop criminals from getting guns through back door methods but it will restrict somewhat how many nutcases purchase firearms through legitimate firearms dealers if there were a " mental stability " check available

21

9 dead in ‘hate crime’ shooting at historic African American church in Charleston

by pronomono in

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/17/white-gunman-sought-in-shooting-at-historic-charleston-african-ame-church/.

this is such a shame.

i've always thought about things like this happening because of how crazy some people are, especially in regards to religion.

flipper

This is a horrific crime, terribly sad. When is America going to wake up to the fact that prejudice and racial hatred is alive and happening still after all these years and something NEEDS to be done about curtailing and preventing it ? Either by more education in school systems or churches . And when is America going to wake up to the fact that yes- we may have the right to bear arms - but does that include bat shit crazy mentally insane people ? In my opinion, no it does NOT. So many random shootings killing multiple people have occurred over the last 15 to 20 years you would think we are living in a f&cking war zone. All over the United States. This crime last night saddens me deeply but it pisses me off like hell

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

flipper

JHINE- Interesting what you say about the Church of England being required by law to report child abuse to the police if a victim comes to them with an offense. I wish the laws here in the U.S. made it MORE of a mandatory reporting issue in ALL 50 states !

PUNK OF NICE- Exactly. WT Society is not great at all- in fact- they are probably one of the worst offenders of the many religious organizations who don't come clean about child abuse crimes being committed within the walls of secrecy within their organization. Another secretive organization which hides it's crimes is the Scientology religion. Thus the reason for the recent expose documentary on HBO called " going Clear " exposing Scientology. We need one of those documentaries BIG TIME exposing the WT Society definitely

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

flipper

Thanks for all the replies ! I appreciate it. Got back from work awhile ago so I have time to reply now.

JHINE- Lisa Rose's statement was accurate- if just Campos the molester had confessed to the elders it would have been a clergy penitent privilege due to pastoral confession- but once the victim Lopez and his mother brought it to the elders it should have been reported to police. And as On The Way Out states the WT Society LOSES the clergy confidentiality once they blab it across the United States to the WT legal department and service committee - it ceases to be confidential anymore and ethics and justice require WT elders to report it to police. Especially in California as it IS a reporting state. As are many other states within the United States.

DRIVING FORCE- Yeah, I've been thinking more and more about the Stockholm Syndrome thing applying to many JW's the longer I've been out of the organization ( which is almost 12 years now ) because the elders are mind controlled to be SO complicit in upholding ANY decision out of WT legal - even if it's unethical, inhumane, or downright illegal.

STILL TOTALLY ADD- Thanks for sharing that conversation you had with the C.O. when you told him about all the child abuse cases you were aware of. I bet his face turned pale. It's amazing how quickly they will try to change the subject once we bring up the child abuse scandals because it causes them such cognizant dissonance that their brains get fried or overloaded as it shakes their perfect little world view of how WT leaders and elders are SUPPOSED to be as opposed to what they REALLY are doing and hiding behind the scenes. As you state if the WT Society had just faced this child abuse thing head on and apologized admitting error as the Catholic Church did- perhaps people wouldn't be in such an uproar about it- but the maddening thing about WT leaders is their unwillingness to even admit FAULT at all ! So it pisses all of us off even more as well as pisses off child abuse victims and their families who are now out for WT leaders heads on a platter. But WT leaders are TOO arrogant to ever admit fault. I don't see that happening any time in our lifetime.

ON THE WAY OUT- Exactly, I agree elders are totally mind controlled by the WT Society's instructions to elders - yet- that being said they are still complicit and guilty in instances like the Lopez molestation where for YEARS these elders knew Campos was molesting more children and they still appointed him as an elder while he was doing these crimes. Which is aiding and abetting a felony crime. Mind controlled or not. If even ONE of those 3 elders had a shred of conscience during those years and years where 9 more children got molested - it would have put a stop to Campos molesting more kids if one elder went to police. So that's what my point is - is that the elders are complicit with the WT Society in covering up crimes such as child abuse- per the court report. They are just as guilty.

Like yourself - I agree that the WT Society should make it MANDATORY for elders to first report child abuse to the police - THEN report it to WT legal. They have it backwards- they are putting the carriage before the horse. And therefore WT leaders set themselves up for more of theses child abuse lawsuits to come streaming in to them from victims. WT leaders are too prideful to change or listen to ANYBODY else's advice. So I don't see this changing anytime soon.

LISAROSE- Good points you make about the clergy penitent privilege not applying in this Campos case as it was not confidential from the get-go. The victim and his mom approached the elders, then the elders sent all the information to WT legal and the WT Service committee- that blows the confidentiality clause right there. As you state- it's interesting that the WT Society keeps records of all these 23,000 pedophiles and all the judicial congregation committee cases in dealing with JW molesters- but the WT legal department refused to turn over those documents in this particular court case and would not obey the laws of the court to do so. Thus they paid out 13.5 million $$$$ to Lopez . WT leaders are a bunch of classless idiots.

HEAVEN- Thanks for sharing the discussion you had with your dad about WT child abuse. It is incredible how so many JW's STILL to this day are not aware of how huge the child abuse problem is within the WT organization. WT Society has done a good job of sweeping it under the rug like comments made by Stephen Lett calling it " ridiculous " that people would say they put children in danger of child abuse. So Stockholm Syndrome mind controlled JW's lap those comments up like kittens lapping up cream so they won't have to face reality. Then they stick their heads back in the sand and go about their business. Pretty weird if you ask me.

PUNK OF NICE- Exactly, I agree. WT leaders protect these perverts WAY too much. It does make you wonder who at the top is involved in this child abuse mess . There were rumors about Jaracz when he was alive, then Chitty and Greenlees of course, but once again those allegations were hushed up really quickly and some of these guys were shipped out on special assignments to different countries or locations to get them out of the " molester limelight " - I know this for a fact as I've talked to some who had first hand information on it. But I keep my sources confidential for obvious reasons. But as you stated it's a corporation and the organization needs come first- not individual JW needs - and if that means trampling upon the rights of molested children- the WT leaders views are " oh well ". Disgusting