Posts by FusionTheism

41

A Tug on the Leash (The Authority Which the GB Wields Over the R&F)

by Oubliette in

recently, several comments have been made in various threads in reference to some of the recent changes to a few of the rules by which jehovah's witnesses must live their lives in unquestioning compliance.

the assertion has been made that these rules are a "relaxing" of previous restrictions.

the suggestion has been made that this somehow indicates a corresponding relaxing or loosening or lessening of the authority which the governing body (gb) holds over the rank and file (r&f) members of the religion.

FusionTheism

The Society is based on their belief that the New Testament says there should be a "governing" group of Christians like the Apostles and Elders of Jerusalem in Acts chapter 15, and that this group has authority to send "letters" to all the Congregations ordering them to accept certain doctrine and teachings.

I don't agree that this governing group is something God intended for any time period after the Apostles died.

However, this could be open to various interpretations, including the one the Society believes in.

The example quote given by the OP is speaking about direction given during the Great Tribulation, after the events predicted by the Governing Body have come true. If these events never come true, that command doesn't apply.

On the flip-side, the Society has issued many statements saying every Witness must imitate the Noble-Minded Beroeans of Acts 17:11 to make sure the Society is teaching the truth of the Bible.

Does the Watchtower Society, JW.org, and the Governing Body 2.0 still have many issues that can cause them to be considered a cult? Yes, they do, and the sooner they change these, the better.

I'm not defending any of their cult-like practices and beliefs, but I refuse to issue blanket condemnations and bitterness over every single thing they do, even when it is actually an improvement.

22

1919 Doctrine no longer exists? (Today's Watchtower Study)

by FusionTheism in

quote from today's watchtower study article that's being studied at the halls (march 15, 2015, page 24):.

"understanding the illustration of the talents".

"when the master rewards the slaves.".

FusionTheism

So, they're saying that the Faithful Slave was APPOINTED in 1919, but that's NOT the year they received expanded authority?

I thought the Watchtower always taught before that Jesus came and inspected the Faithful Slave in 1918-1919, then He rewarded them. Today's Watchtower article says that this "reward" did not occur in 1919 but instead occurs during the Great Tribulation.

Or are they now eliminating 1919 as having any Scriptural significance, and they're merely saying "history shows that since 1919 the Society did such and such..."?

Also, if the Faithful Slave wasn't appointed until 1919, this means that Charles Taze Russell and his followers were totally wrong on saying that the Faithful Slave Class existed in their day?

88

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

FusionTheism

Oubliette and Steve2,

I've merely been waiting and observing so I could see all of the amazing "friendly and tolerant" posts here.

But seriously, positive changes in recent years' publications (no I'm not going to spend my entire off day to provide you the exact page numbers of each change. They're all available on JW.org, wol.jw.org or tv.jw.org) include:

* The statements that Witnesses should call the police on child molesters.

* The elimination of the vast majority of wacky Bible interpretations that applied to the Organization.

* The Society now PROMOTING and APPROVING the use of social networks/media.

* The Society now highly encouraging Internet use, even for children.

* The Society repeatedly posting new statements on their website saying that Witnesses cannot earn salvation by preaching or works.

* The huge increase in focus on Jesus and repeatedly acknowledging that Jesus is divine.

* A gradual removal of the 1914, 1919 teachings.

* A gradual improvement of their shunning practices, especially with their New Convention and Return to Jehovah Brochure.

* A much, much improved simplified interpretation of Bible events and stories.

* A gradual improvement of their blood policies, including the approval of hemoglobin and many other fractions.

* Repeatedly stating that only Jesus judges the goats and they are not to be judged by anyone until the end of the Great Tribulation.

* Acknowledging and discussing many, many of their mistakes.

For example, start watching the 2014 Annual Meeting Talk at the 2 hour, 8 minute mark, and you'll see a Governing Body member acknowledging some crazy Type/Antitype ideas of the past, in addition to acknowledging and condemning Russell's Pyramidology / Numerology.

Also see the March 15, 2015 Study Edition Watchtower articles to see many acknowledgements of past errors.

22

1919 Doctrine no longer exists? (Today's Watchtower Study)

by FusionTheism in

quote from today's watchtower study article that's being studied at the halls (march 15, 2015, page 24):.

"understanding the illustration of the talents".

"when the master rewards the slaves.".

FusionTheism

The 2014 Watchtower book entitled "God's Kingdom Rules!", on page 47, says this:

"After the appointment of the faithful slave in 1919, Jehovah helped his people to discern the work he had assigned them to do."

39

I left the troof behind in 2006. What have I missed?

by Jehovah lol in

i'm up to date with what the wt taught in 2006 but have no idea what has changed since.. do tell..

FusionTheism

* The Generation of 1914 is no longer the wicked, it is now two groups of overlapping Anointed. First group are those who witnessed 1914. Second group are those who received anointing while the first group were still alive. Tribulation must come before the second group dies off.

* The unforgivable sin is choosing not to repent.

* The Faithful and Discreet Slave is not all of the Anointed, it is only the Governing Body. It was not given expanded authority in 1919 but will be in the Tribulation.

* The Anointed on earth will be raptured to Heaven at the end of the Tribulation right before Armageddon.

* Gog is not Satan, it is a Coalition of Nations led by the mysterious King of the North.

* They have eliminated MOST of their interpretations that used the Type/Antitype Method.

* They have changed ALL of their interpretations of Parables.

22

1919 Doctrine no longer exists? (Today's Watchtower Study)

by FusionTheism in

quote from today's watchtower study article that's being studied at the halls (march 15, 2015, page 24):.

"understanding the illustration of the talents".

"when the master rewards the slaves.".

FusionTheism

Quote from today's Watchtower Study Article that's being studied at the Halls (March 15, 2015, Page 24):

"Understanding the Illustration of the Talents"

"When the Master Rewards the Slaves."

"Former explanation: In 1919, Jesus rewarded his anointed slaves on earth by entrusting them with increased responsibility."

"Adjusted explanation: When Christ comes in the future, he will reward his faithful anointed slaves by raising them to heaven. The Wicked and Sluggish Slave."

"Former explanation: The wicked and sluggish slave refers to anointed ones in the 1914 era who refused to share in the preaching work."

"Adjusted explanation: Jesus was not foretelling that a group of his anointed followers would make up a wicked slave class. Rather, he was warning his followers about what would happen if they thought and acted in a way that would cause him to view them as wicked and sluggish."

---------

So they have erased their doctrine about 1919?

14

The Kingdom of God -- Simplified Suggestion

by FusionTheism in

depending on the context, the phrase "kingdom of god" can have a few different simplified meanings:.

1: the authority of god manifesting itself through miracles, love, or judgment.. 2: the authority of god in people's lives.. 3: the lord jesus, the 12 apostles, and others who will sit on thrones and wear crowns in the new heavens and the new earth.. 4: the 1,000 year reign of christ on earth (if that is literal instead of symbolic).. 5: (in the old testament:) the nation of israel under godly kings such as david or josiah.. there are a few passages of scripture i can think of which could support the idea that the kingdom is made up of those who rule in heaven, as opposed to those who live on earth.

these are matthew 11:11-13, john 3:13, 31, acts 2:34. delving into those scriptures will be the subject of a future post.. as always, the immediate context of a passage, and the context of that particular book as a whole, helps determine the meaning of the phrase..

FusionTheism

Plus, if you can't stand the idea of examining the Scriptures and the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, why on earth are you reading a message board category entitled "Beliefs" of Jehovah's Witnesses?

14

The Kingdom of God -- Simplified Suggestion

by FusionTheism in

depending on the context, the phrase "kingdom of god" can have a few different simplified meanings:.

1: the authority of god manifesting itself through miracles, love, or judgment.. 2: the authority of god in people's lives.. 3: the lord jesus, the 12 apostles, and others who will sit on thrones and wear crowns in the new heavens and the new earth.. 4: the 1,000 year reign of christ on earth (if that is literal instead of symbolic).. 5: (in the old testament:) the nation of israel under godly kings such as david or josiah.. there are a few passages of scripture i can think of which could support the idea that the kingdom is made up of those who rule in heaven, as opposed to those who live on earth.

these are matthew 11:11-13, john 3:13, 31, acts 2:34. delving into those scriptures will be the subject of a future post.. as always, the immediate context of a passage, and the context of that particular book as a whole, helps determine the meaning of the phrase..

FusionTheism

Viviane,

There are accepted rules that scholars and experts in the fields of Bible/book research use to determine which parts are symbolic, which are poetic, which are apocalyptic, which are narrative/prose, which are songs, etc.

There is nothing magical or mystical about it. I never say anything without checking it against the scholars and experts and their accepted rules of exegesis and interpretation.

Now, as far as what "spirit" is, the Bible simply defines it as unseen forces/beings which have a different "body" than humans do. Anything beyond that knowledge is a mystery.

The book of Revelation tells us it is a book of "symbols" or "signs," so we know it's symbolic for sure.

Bible scholars are pretty much in agreement that "wearing a crown" or "sitting on a throne" are phrases that mean "king" or "ruler."

This isn't rocket science or magic here.

14

The Kingdom of God -- Simplified Suggestion

by FusionTheism in

depending on the context, the phrase "kingdom of god" can have a few different simplified meanings:.

1: the authority of god manifesting itself through miracles, love, or judgment.. 2: the authority of god in people's lives.. 3: the lord jesus, the 12 apostles, and others who will sit on thrones and wear crowns in the new heavens and the new earth.. 4: the 1,000 year reign of christ on earth (if that is literal instead of symbolic).. 5: (in the old testament:) the nation of israel under godly kings such as david or josiah.. there are a few passages of scripture i can think of which could support the idea that the kingdom is made up of those who rule in heaven, as opposed to those who live on earth.

these are matthew 11:11-13, john 3:13, 31, acts 2:34. delving into those scriptures will be the subject of a future post.. as always, the immediate context of a passage, and the context of that particular book as a whole, helps determine the meaning of the phrase..

FusionTheism

DJS,

Ah, yet again I can definitely see that "friendly and tolerant" attitude that the Home Page of this website so proudly advertises. (Sarcasm alert)

Why do so many atheists, who maybe, barely, make up 9% or 10% of the population, consider themselves the only ones who have the truth and are superior to everyone else?

I've always wondered that?

14

The Kingdom of God -- Simplified Suggestion

by FusionTheism in

depending on the context, the phrase "kingdom of god" can have a few different simplified meanings:.

1: the authority of god manifesting itself through miracles, love, or judgment.. 2: the authority of god in people's lives.. 3: the lord jesus, the 12 apostles, and others who will sit on thrones and wear crowns in the new heavens and the new earth.. 4: the 1,000 year reign of christ on earth (if that is literal instead of symbolic).. 5: (in the old testament:) the nation of israel under godly kings such as david or josiah.. there are a few passages of scripture i can think of which could support the idea that the kingdom is made up of those who rule in heaven, as opposed to those who live on earth.

these are matthew 11:11-13, john 3:13, 31, acts 2:34. delving into those scriptures will be the subject of a future post.. as always, the immediate context of a passage, and the context of that particular book as a whole, helps determine the meaning of the phrase..

FusionTheism

Basically those are symbolic or anthropomorphic ways of attempting to express truths about the invisible spirit realm.

My best guess on "New Heavens" would be because Revelation says Satan and the demons are vanished from the Heavens, so now they are "made new."

"Crowns" and "Thrones" just represent rulership and authority.