Posts by humbled

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

Tammy has a brass neck, cofty. You must give her that. You wield a wicked cleaver. Find a better way to deal with her than this, please.

How will we know how the "trial" goes?

I'll not bring this up on this thread again.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

I have just found and read the conversation of the past--6-8 hours.

Tec/Tammy is banned? I say shame on you who think this is fair. It is neither fair nor a benefit to us.

I appreciate her strong voice that apparently draws strong reaction on the board. Although there are calls to "not feed" the line of conversation she opens, who of you stop conversing? So one wonders--what's up with that? Because I know personally that it is easy to dry up a poster--do not respond, do not comment. It happens to me plenty of times--even if I think I have raised a good point, even if I have spent time putting the idea together. If no one answers a post-- then there's a pretty quick end to it.

BUT....

Tammy garners almost 100% in the response department.

Why?

One reason is that she is respectful. She doesn't do smack-downs. A+

Tammy is sharp. So that challenges.

She believes in Jesus the Christ. So that challenges us.

She believes in Jesus the Christ.

So that challenges her, too.

If I am not a believer in Christ, I am still a person who reckons that the Jesus teaching of love is consistent with our own desire for love and fairness. Who he was and is in my life is up to me to deal with, to sort out.

In thinking how some of Christian teaching is so dependent on the OT God it has helped me see how tangled the Church apologetics had to become to allow them to develop a god/man of Jesus. TEC/Tammy has come to one answer to this problem. I took a road that is different--but I have spent time on Tammy's road, too.

I repeat:Tammy's voice in the forum is valuable.

This thread is almost unique in all I have been exposed to in readings, live discussions, panel discussions, etc. I've never heard of such a hammering at the tangled threads of belief as this hread has sustained. It has nearly derailed a few times. But tossing Tammy out will derail this topic. I will consider that a tragic miscalculation of how a discussion can develop. And on a personal level I feel it is a sad miscalculation of Tammy herself. She is a fervent believer. Just because that is so obvious, why exclude her amid scurrilous accusations?

Please reconsider.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

When do we have the Bible God himself explaining why bad things happen to good people?

NEVER.

We only have people spin explanations.In the bible and out of it.Then and now. But God doesn't answer.

The question Job asks God is part of this discussion. It's an important part of this discussion because A BELIEVER, Job, asks God : WHY?

Read the book and see that there isn't an answer given.

Neither old or NT make sense. Bible says the earth was cursed by God (Gen.3:17,5:29) brings a flood to kill evil men but --saves the righteous? All through the bibl the story tries to go with the idea that god reward/protects the righteous--in SPITE of the observations of Job. God saving the righteous is spotty--

If god has love and power at least admit that it isn't evident in the real world. We get sick and die even if we don't die in a tsunami.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

cofty, Christian theism has had other moments to wonder why their god has allowed death and destruction in the natural world kill people. The Lisbon earthquake and tsunami in the mid 1700's destroyed most the churches on All Saint's Day and yet let stand most of the red light district.So it is reported.

It looks to me that christian theism always has had to accommodate the mystery of god--it is only that some of us reject the theology that allows"god" to get away with that.

that is why I ran afoul of the JWs on the Sacrifice of Abraham story.

There was no reconciling this with the rest of the scriptures.

The struggle I have, and others is to allow for a higher being that is not the one we've been told exists.

(I'm offline for the next few hours--interested in any comments from anyone:) Maeve

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

Thistles and figs... by their fruits you will know them.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

If there is a god that is not all-powerful, I ask:Is that not a god?

The god Job met had a dwelling in the earth and Job sensed that ethical/loving conduct was the good this god enjoyed.....

why the hang-up on all-powerful? What is the main complaint here? That he/it isn't loving? What if god is loving and nothing else?

Who has a complaint here--atheists? theists?

so no one loves an impotent god? Mommy! Mommeeeee!!!!

(I have company coming in the door-----out of here--)see ya'll tomorrow

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

I have to leave the discussion for tonight..

But cofty---I ask your question back to you-- What's the point of an impotent God?

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

Doofdaddy--we were indoctrinated from the word"GO" to believe god had the power to fix anything---if he wanted to. I don't see it though.

Of course all we can do is guess as to why our prayers aren't answered. My guess is God doesn't have the power. It sucks, but what can I do?

The official church program had us trying to please a god that they couldn't separate from the OT--God of love AND punishment. None of their stuff adds up-- there are leaks everywhere in the theology-- we know they cooked the books. the more they patched the worse it leaked. But no worries, there are professional theologians to tell us what it means.

So I don't buy their story of god.

But we--WE--are able to love, to be good to others and be fair. So if there is a higher force, my guess is that god/good/the all/higher force----GOD is LOVE.

Love is all we have for sure--even ourselves--we have it. For anyone who is a NT theist, shouldn't that be enough without resurrection and all the trimmings? No guessing involved.

It would be wonderful to find out that there is a beautiful afterlife--especially for people who only suffer and die here on earth. we just don't know. But if there is love in your life, be grateful.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

Well, cofty, I hate being an impotent mom(ahem).

I really DO love my kids, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't have the absolute power to help them--even if they are in desperate need.

It's a crying shame, but maybe the carpenter was pretty disappointed to find out that his Abba didn't have a way to stop shit from happening either.

Maybe an impotent god is having to do as much as he can with love. And we all are just going to have to deal with it.

But that is a very good question-- If I were writing propaganda to win folks to my religion I would definitely tell them my God was all-powerful.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

Possibly the higher force is loving and limited. As good a guess as any.