BurnTheShips

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Posts by BurnTheShips

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  208

  Self Deceit and Faith.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but i thought it would make an interesting discussion.. self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it".

  my premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.. so, i would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.. 1) in what way is faith not self-deception?.

  2) is a person who has faith in a god that you do not believe in, say for example siva, practicing a form of self-deception?.

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  BurnTheShips

  This is a mind-expanding thread.

  I nominate it for "best of". Thanks to all (and no I will be sticking around).

  Humbly,

  Burn
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  208

  Self Deceit and Faith.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but i thought it would make an interesting discussion.. self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it".

  my premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.. so, i would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.. 1) in what way is faith not self-deception?.

  2) is a person who has faith in a god that you do not believe in, say for example siva, practicing a form of self-deception?.

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  BurnTheShips

  Good Morning HS

  Those that have been brave enough to answer the question BA and BurnTheShips have provided the following answers, both of which I am sure you will agree are logically flawed:

  I would appreciate an explanation as to how my response was logically flawed.

  BurnTheShips, as ever the more honest of the two is prepared to comment, as usual without explanation as to why he believes that those who adhere to a god not of his making are "up to a point" self-deceived.

  I intended my italicized reference to the Pauline epistle to be an explanation.

  Sincerely,

  Burn
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  208

  Self Deceit and Faith.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but i thought it would make an interesting discussion.. self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it".

  my premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.. so, i would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.. 1) in what way is faith not self-deception?.

  2) is a person who has faith in a god that you do not believe in, say for example siva, practicing a form of self-deception?.

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  BurnTheShips

  Nothing supernatural about that realization. It's purely naturalistic.

  Nvrgnbk, based on your own reasoning, presumably your own cognition is also purely naturalistic.

  If so it is presumably subject to, and it developed from, the blind indifferent forces of evolution.

  If so it "cares" not if it can properly aprehend truth, its only role is survival. Truth is immaterial, survival is everything.

  If that is the case, how can you trust your own thoughts/reason as a guide to truth?

  As for me, I am in the "image of God", the source of truth. I can trust my cognition a bit more than you can.

  Burn
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  208

  Self Deceit and Faith.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but i thought it would make an interesting discussion.. self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it".

  my premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.. so, i would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.. 1) in what way is faith not self-deception?.

  2) is a person who has faith in a god that you do not believe in, say for example siva, practicing a form of self-deception?.

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  BurnTheShips

  100% agreement. My evidence says, "God abandoned me". "God denied me basic needs". "God ignored my prayers". "God introduced massive inconsistencies into the Bible and threw a veil over the translating of His work". "God picked an orbit of the sun, out of many he could have; he chose an axis of the Earth that leaves large sections uncomfortable or uninhabitable".

  Seems to me like God left off part of the work so that we could share in the joy of creating.

  Unfortunately, we have largely abdicated. But we are moving in the right direction.

  Burn
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  9

  I prefer "sticks and stones"...

  by changeling in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i can mend from a broken bone much easier than from a broken sprit.. they say "actions speak louder than words", but we are trapped in cyber space where all we have are words.. so if our words are cruel, we have no body language or eye contact to soften the blows.. i do appreciate some concialiatory gestures i've seen around here.

  they will go a long way to keeping this board friendly and "safe" for all of us.. here is a "jewel" favorite of mine:.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ash4poy9x70.

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  BurnTheShips

  I just love her voice Changeling. I never heard that track before though.

  Burn
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  208

  Self Deceit and Faith.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but i thought it would make an interesting discussion.. self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it".

  my premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.. so, i would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.. 1) in what way is faith not self-deception?.

  2) is a person who has faith in a god that you do not believe in, say for example siva, practicing a form of self-deception?.

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  BurnTheShips

  Do you think it is convincing?

  I think it is fantastic! It's quite floored me.

  I see very clear parallels with Biblical version.

  I find the OM/Logos parallel fascinating. I never noticed it before.

  Thanks,

  Burn
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  208

  Self Deceit and Faith.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but i thought it would make an interesting discussion.. self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it".

  my premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.. so, i would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.. 1) in what way is faith not self-deception?.

  2) is a person who has faith in a god that you do not believe in, say for example siva, practicing a form of self-deception?.

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  BurnTheShips

  Your theology, and ideas of god are still disproven with all the evidence out there. If god created life he used natural laws to do it which automatically debunks the bible which didn't even get close in it's account of creation.

  Hi 5go.

  Which theology in particular 5go? I don't think "my" theology is disproven, but maybe you meant unproven?

  The Bible does not appear to me to get close to what we currently "know" about the origins. I think my point is that it was dealt with in a manner consistent with the knowledge of people of that time while pointing to certain truths that are still valid.

  As for the poster you respond to,

  If the Bible is God's word then it contains many falsifying facts.

  to channel Leolaia (and NOT to speak for her), I will reiterate that it describes things according to the subjectivites of the period in which it was composed. I take this of a post I made some time ago:

  The account of creation in Genesis was described according to the reality of the people of that time and place, if God were to inspire such a thing today I am sure it would be in today's language and cosmology. And if it were in today's terms, how do you think it would look to our descendants 3000 years hence at the current rate of progress? Pretty anachronistic! That is not to say it was a metaphor, it describes real events that really happened, but described in a manner that the people of that time would grasp. It is the same when we explain something to a small child today. We use forms they can understand while conveying the essence of what we are communicating to them.

  Luke: Obi-Wan.
  [Obi-Wan's spirit approaches Luke]
  Luke: Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.
  Obi-Wan: Your father... was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and BECAME Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was TRUE... from a certain point of view.
  Luke: A certain point of view?
  Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...
  [sits down]
  Obi-Wan: depend greatly on our own point of view. Anakin was a good friend.

  Either way, The Christian faith is not a religion of the book. Christianity is the religion of the Word of God, not a written and mute word, but an incarnate and living being. The book is about the faith and the revelation, not the faith itself or the revelation itself.

  Ubi Amor, Ibi Oculus

  Burn
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  208

  Self Deceit and Faith.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but i thought it would make an interesting discussion.. self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it".

  my premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.. so, i would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.. 1) in what way is faith not self-deception?.

  2) is a person who has faith in a god that you do not believe in, say for example siva, practicing a form of self-deception?.

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  BurnTheShips

  Lelolaia, as always, a beautiful wealth reasoned post.

  Do you think that, in human affairs, it always comes down to subjectivity?

  Cheers,

  Burn
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  62

  God and Evolution

  by BurnTheShips in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during the second half of the nineteenth century, it became common to speak of a war between science and religion.

  but over the course of the twentieth century, that hostility gradually subsided.

  science should not try to become religion, nor should religion seek to take the place of science.

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  BurnTheShips

  But in its essence, it is simply the rejection of the belief in the existence of a god and/or gods, due to lack of positive inarguable evidence.

  Tal vez sea asi teoricamente, pero en la realidad implica muchisimo mas.

  QuemaLosBarcos
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  208

  Self Deceit and Faith.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but i thought it would make an interesting discussion.. self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it".

  my premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.. so, i would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.. 1) in what way is faith not self-deception?.

  2) is a person who has faith in a god that you do not believe in, say for example siva, practicing a form of self-deception?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  BurnTheShips

  No we are not agreeing. You claim in a number of posts that you can provide "evidence" of the existence of a God. Despite your much repeated claim you have never done so, despite dodging and weaving like a used car salesman.

  Oh BTW, I have provided evidence. Philosophical evidence. You already know about science and the supernatural.

  I dodge and weave like a well trained soldier. ;-)

  Burn