Posts by thirdwitness

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Now that the information has been presented the questions can be answered in the light of this information.

1) Is the UN/DPI a secular (as opposed to religious) organization?

Yes

(2) According to JWs, does the UN/DPI have any objectives contrary to the Bible?

The UN/DPI objective is to disseminate information about the UN. That is the only responsibility of DPI NGOs. It could be information about what the UN has done and is trying to do. The information could also be of a critical nature. The NGO does not support the UN in all its endeavors nor is it required to only give praise to the UN as apostates would lead us to believe. The phrase within it 'own aims and purposes' is applicable to NGOs. The word support means 'furnish corroborating evidence'.

(3) According to JWs, is the UN/DPI under judgment by Jehovah God?

All governments are under judgement by God but all are God's servants that we should be in subjection to.

(4) Did the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. become part of the the UN/DPI?

NO The WTS was not incorporated into the UN. Oleg agreed.

(5) According to JWs, is the UN/DPI approved or diapproved by God?

All governments and their agencies are God's public servants so in one sense they are approved by God to carry out their God given authority. They are disapproved because they do not submit to God's kingdom.

(6) According to JWs, are any of the the other members of the UN/DPI disapproved by God?

I am sure that some are but not for being an NGO with the UN/DPI. I am not sure that all NGOs with the UN/DPI are disapproved by God.

Your questions are too broad and general. If you want to ask more specific questions then More details can be provided on the above answers if necessary. I believe I have answered all the above questions already in a more specific way by the material I have presented.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

OOPS and sorry. The name of the UN/DPI officer was not Greg but rather Oleg. So whereever I have used the name Greg just substitute the name, Oleg.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

“What agreement does God’s temple have with idols? “‘Get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’; ‘and I will take you in.’ ‘And I shall be a father to you, and you will be sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah the Almighty.”—2 Corinthians 6:16-18.

This is the scripture that the poster quoted and applied to the WTS as a NGO with the DPI. The unclean thing here is not the UN.

Hillarystep, an opposer of JWs quoted me: The Watchtower Society does not teach that the UN is the unclean thing at all and never has. This is a deliberate lie by apostates to make the Society look like a hypocrite, but they're hoping you will not check the facts yourself.

And then even admitted: Yes, let us keep this accurate for the sake of all onlookers. They call it 'the disgusting thing that causes desolation'.

I hope this will put an end to this part of the discussion.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Lookingglass, you are comparing religion to government. They are different. We are to have nothing to do with religion. We are in subjection to governments. Why is this comparison continually made over and over again when it does not apply? I hope this is the last time that I have to repeat this. Please let it be so.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Auldsoul said: NGO means non-governmental organization. If they aren't a governmental organization, they are a non-governmental organization.

It is like saying I am caucasian. I repeat, DUH!!!

I took for granted that everyone knew what you just said. I left out part of the conversation because I did not think it was important to the point. After all, if you are talking to the DPI officer about the WTS being an NGO Im pretty sure that everyone knows that when he says they are an NGO he is talking about an NGO to the DPI. But now that you are making a big deal about it here is part of the conversation I left out. It is in red.

When asked: Is the Watchtower a NGO

Greg answered: Yes

Question: Is there a unique number to identify them?

Greg: No, there are over 1,500 of them.

Question: For how long has the Watchtower been a NGO

Greg: Since 1991

Then the conversation continues as I have previously quoted.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Auldsoul said: Verbal support for the UN and its activities is required to remain an Associate with the UN/DPI,

Greg, an officer at the UN/DPI totally disagrees with you. Not only did he outrightly say an NGO with the DPI can criticize the UN but he shows that he was more concerned about an NGO with the DPI claiming to be with the UN and making money because of that claim than an NGO criticizing the UN.

Isolda Oca of the DPI also disagrees with you. After an apostate JW had a conversation with her he admitted this:

The gist of the conversation was...

1) It is not unusual for organizations that are in disagreements with the United Nations to become an NGO with them.

Now remember, it is not a JW who is giving the gist of the conversation. It is one of your fellow apostates who denounces the WTS.

And by the way, I believe I am answering your questions.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Auldsoul: You see, ANY organization can write whatever they want about the UN, but they can't do so and remain an NGO Associate to the UN/DPI. Your conversation seems to indicate you believe an Associate can write whatever they want about the UN without repurcussion. That is not true.

Apparently Greg, an officer of the UN/DPI does not agree with you Auldsoul.

Question: Some friends of mine are concerned over the Watchtower not saying nice things about the UN. Is this a problem?

Greg: You can criticize the UN. But, we would take offence if they were using the UN name to raise money or they were saying they were a UN organization when they really are not.

Notice that his statement is made after he answers that the WT is an NGO.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

NONE of the tripe you just spewed changes the fact that you said the Watchtower Society has "NEVER" said the UN was the "unclean" thing. You were incorrect when you said that.

Auldsoul, you are wrong. The UN is the digusting thing not the unclean thing. There is a difference. The scripture that is being used against the WTS that says 'do not touch the unclean thing' is not talking about the UN or any other government. It is talking about false religion or false religious practices.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Now that we know just what is meant by support lets examine the current criteria for becoming an NGO with the DPI. My comments in red.

Criteria

What is an NGO?

A non-governmental organization (NGO) is a not-for-profit, voluntary citizens’ group, which is organized on a local, national or international level to address issues in support of the public good. Task-oriented and made up of people with common interests, NGOs perform a variety of services and humanitarian functions, bring citizens’ concerns to governments, monitor policy and programme implementation, and encourage participation of civil society stakeholders at the community l evel. They provide analysis and expertise, serve as early warning mechanisms, and help monitor and implement international agreements. Some are organized around specific issues, such as human rights, the environment or health. Their relationship with offices and agencies of the United Nations (UN) system differs depending on their location and their mandate. Notice that the relationship differs depending on their mandate.

Criteria for association with DPI

the NGO must support and respect the principles of the Charter of the UN and have a clear mission statement with those principles Now that we know that support means provide corroborating evidence and that an NGO can even criticize the UN and can give support only in the areas that are in accord with their aims and purposes we can see that there is actually nothing wrong with doing this.
the NGO must be recognized nationally or internationally
the NGO should operate solely on a not-for-profit basis and have tax-exempt status
the NGO must have the commitment and the means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents about UN activities The WTS has done this ever since the UN began. And in reporting on such activities they can even be critical of the UN without being reprimanded by the DPI.
the NGO should have an established record of continuity of work for a minimum of three years and should show promise of sustained activity in the future
the NGO should have a satisfactory record of collaboration with UN Information Centres/Services or other parts of the UN System prior to association
the NGO should provide an audited annual financial statement, conducted by a qualified, independent accountant
the NGO should have statutes/by-laws providing for a transparent process of making decisions, elections of officers and members

Evaluation and review process

Associated NGOs undergo a specifically designed evaluation and review process, which is two-fold.

The DPI Committee on NGOs, which decides on association and disassociation, meets twice a year, in June/July and December. The Committee reviews new applications and decides on the status of currently associated NGOs that no longer meet the criteria.
Every four years associated NGOs are required to submit:

a completed evaluation form, which is sent to all associated NGOs at the beginning of the four year period
a quadrennial report of their UN-related activities
at least three samples of their UN-related information materials Since the inception of the UN the WTS has written information about the UN and there is certainly nothing wrong with this.

My conclusion is that the WTS could still be an NGO with the DPI and it would not be spiritual prostitution. The UN criteria does not compromise our principles when it is realized that support does not mean support all aspects of the UN and its endeavors. In fact, admittedly an NGO can even criticize the UN and what they are doing without being removed as an NGO. It is only within the aims and purposes of the NGO that 'support' is given.

And yet, our brothers in Bethel upon realizing the new wording of the UN’s criteria for association as a NGO, even though it may not be unscriptural to remain a NGO with the UN chose to withdraw membership rather than risk stumbling others. Is that not commendable and loving on their part? They should be praised for their stance rather than criticized.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Now lets take a look at the current site of the DPI. My comments in red. It says:

NGO responsibilities

Associated NGOs through their information programmes are expected to

promote knowledge of the principles and activities of the United Nations. Nothing wrong with this. The WT has done this ever since the UN began.
disseminate information about the United Nations and its work to their constituencies Nothing wrong with this. The WT has done this ever since the UN began.
keep the DPI/NGO Section informed about their UN-related activities by submitting a report every four years Nothing wrong with this. They could even criticize the UN which the WT did and does.
fill out an accreditation form every year Nothing wrong with this. This form only tells who would receive the NGO passes and what fields they were interested in.

Please note that association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status. Nothing wrong with this. This shows the WTS had no status with the UN and was no part of the UN. Even Greg said so.