thirdwitness

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Posts by thirdwitness

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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  Let me use an example that is not hypothetical.

  A representative of the WTS tried to get in some certain part of the UN library facilities one day. He was told he couldn't get in unless he had an NGO pass. So they filled out the application and submitted the required information. They were then issued an NGO pass to access all the library facilities. They never signed any document saying they would agree to support the UN or even share the ideals of the UN charter. They did supply articles which they had written about the UN which was the only requirement stipulated on the application.

  Every so often they filled out a form which told who would receive the cards or passes to get in the extensive library facilities and what fields they were intererested in. They also periodically supplied articles they had written about the UN. This of course was nothing new as the WT has always published articles about what the UN is doing and how they will not solve the problems of mankind but rather it is only God's kingdom that can do that.

  Meanwhile, the UN released a brochure and press release saying among other things that NGOs agreed to support the UN. Then in 2001/2002 the UN began a new review process that required NGOs to agree to do things that the WTS had never agreed to do. When the WTS found out about the new criteria that had to be agreed to and that the UN was saying that NGOs must support the UN they basically said, 'Wait a minute. We did not agree to support the UN or its charter nor do we agree to do that now. Please remove us from your list of NGOs.'

  It is quite simple. Apostates however want to villanize the WTS and exaggerate what really happened because it makes them feel better for leaving Jehovah and his people. It is just an excuse for doing what a person wants to do and thereby not having to answer to anyone or live a life in accord with the Bible and its principles. No more door to door work. No more meetings. Free to engage in whatever conduct a person desires.

  Sorry, but those are the facts. But I think most of you already know that, don't you?

  Auldsoul will you please briefly ask the questions that you feel I haven't answered and I will do so.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  Yes, I ask him and the other websites that I refer to are the misleading apostate sites that give false information. For example, some try to say that the WT went thru the review process and provide the accreditation form created after 2001. A form which the WTS never filled out but apostates want to make you think that they did fill it out. Go look for yourself and you will see unless they have changed it because they were caught in a lie or a mistake.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  did you decide to attack him publically based on your undestanding of the "evidence" without the courtesy of contacting him?

  I did indeed contact him and many others with the DPI trying to gather information but I never received any different information than what other sites have shown.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  Suppose you filled out an application to be a member of blockbuster so you could have access to their movies, games, etc and in the application it said you must submit articles that you have written about blockbuster to continue you membership. Suppose you did not sign anything but just gave them your information and in return they gave you a pass to rent items. And so you rent movies etc from them for a while and you send them articles that you have written about them.

  But then someone says, "Hey look here. You agreed to rent porno movies and support the porno industry when you became a member of blockbuster. Look here at this press release from blockbuster. It says that all members agree to support the ideals of the porno industry. And look here, this is a brochure (printed after you became a member) that blockbuster gave to all its members telling them that they must rent porno movies and support and share the ideals of the porno industry. And look here, here is a letter from the head of blockbuster saying that all members agree to support and rent porno movies"

  Did you really agree to these terms just because they say that all members agree to that? If you didn't sign saying you agreed to those terms then you did not agree to those terms. And when it is pointed out to you what blockbuster is saying you could simply say, "NO, I did not and I do not agree to those terms. Here is your card back."

  And that voids all the arguments you could possibly make against the WTS.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  The fact remains that the wts joined an organisation which it has always comdemned,

  No not a fact at all. A misleading statement often made by apostates but an untrue one. The WTS did not 'join' the UN. In fact, it is clearly stated by the DPI: "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status."

  But I do like the fact that you admit that the WTS has always condemed the UN. At least you here admit that the WTS in the Awake magazines did not secretly promote the UN as the hope for mankind.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  As for the application having a place for email address or web site, please take note that the application is the one posted by apostates claiming that it is a 1991/92 application. If it is a later application than the apostates claim, then you have once again been misled by deceitful apostates. And if it is a later application then more than likely the earlier 1991 application did not even require as much information as the later one. We can say this because the evidence shows that the DPI was changing toward NGOs and their policies toward them and their requirements were becoming more and more strict than in the previous years. Take for example the rigorous review process not instituted until 2001/2002 after the WTS had withdrawn.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  Steve said: Another thing to remember, their association with the UN/DPI was altered in the 1997 registry. In that registry they were now listed among NGO's of HUMAN RIGHTS.

  Each year, the DPI required its NGOs to sign the Accreditation Form to state who its representatives would be — to allow them to gain access to the DPI's extensive facilities at the United Nations in New York.

  Here we have a copy of the Accreditation Form as it appeared prior to 2002 — before the renewal process began and before the form was changed to become a renewal application. See the form for yourself at this location. As you can see, this earlier version of the form says nothing about supporting the United Nations. The form is merely there to allow representatives of the NGO to access the DPI's facilities. The form itself clearly states:

  “This form should be used to confirm your currently accredited representative and/or to authorize newly appointed representatives.”

  The form the Society signed each year was obviously not a renewal application. To deny this and continue to insist that they did renew their status each year, would be senseless. Interestingly, also appearing on this earlier form is the following question:

  “Please indicate your organization's main area(s) of interest (e.g. development, disarmament, religion, environment, human rights, conflict resolution, women, etc.)”

  Some have found lists of UN NGOs where the Watchtower Society is listed, complete with items such as “human rights”, and “women” listed as the Society's areas of interest. They have noticed how these areas of interest have changed in the records from year-to-year. Therefore, they have argued that it “proves” the Society must have annually renewed their NGO membership because the “areas of interest” kept changing. Yet, as we can clearly see from the form, that question did not appear on a yearly renewal form at all — but on the form to get the representatives their access passes.

  It is clear, then, that the Watchtower Society did not reapply for it's NGO status each year, and that the Accreditation Form (prior to 2001/2002) which the Society did sign annually, was simply to state who it's representatives would be along with their areas of interest for accessing the DPI's facilities.

  It is also clear that the Watchtower Society was being truthful when it said “At the time of the initial application no signature was required on the form”, and that the forms signed by the Society really did not conflict with Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs. We can see the evidence for ourselves.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  Knowing about the full range of facilities offered by the DPI helps explain Bethel's other claim in it's letters:

  “We had been using the library for many-years prior to 1991, but in that year it became necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access.”

  “In any case, we had been using the library facilities at the UN for many years prior to 1991. In that year, our researcher was advised by UN personnel that it would be necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access to the various libraries we were using.”

  The Watchtower Society's researcher was apparently told he could no longer access certain areas or facilities without an NGO pass. Why? Perhaps the facilities were new, and reserved only for DPI NGOs. Perhaps existing facilities were now being reserved only for the use of DPI NGO representatives. Perhaps the brother wished to access certain documents which were off-limit to the general public. Or perhaps certain exhibitions or events were taking place that were DPI NGO-invitation only. These possibilities are hinted at in one of Bethel's letters, where it states that a DPI NGO pass was necessary to access “specific areas”, presumably areas which were previously accessible. Whatever happened, the Watchtower Society researcher was told they needed an NGO pass to continue with the same level of access they previously enjoyed.

  There is, of course, one other possibility: that the employee who advised of the need for an NGO pass was simply mistaken. How many of us can say we have not experienced some kind of incompetence or received some wrong advice from a government employee? If we are honest, we know that government agencies are often notorious for giving contradictory advice. In the UK's large welfare state, it is a running joke that you can call a government helpline and receive a different answer to the same question if you call twice.

  The Global Policy Forum's report, which we quoted earlier, had this to say about the competence of both the DPI and ECOSOC NGO staff:

  “The DPI office gets good marks for timely processing of pass requests and for overall courtesy and helpfulness. But its management of documents in the NGO Resource Center tends to be chaotic. Serious problems exist in both offices.”

  “Many NGOs complain that some of the notoriously bureaucratic and unresponsive behavior of the ECOSOC office in the past still persists. The office employs cumbersome and time-consuming procedures for issuing passes, it too often it loses accreditation letters, and its staff can be discourteous.”

  “NGOs also find the application procedures for new accreditation in both offices tend to be bureaucratic and paper-bound. Staff have lost or mislaid accreditation folders and have been inflexible in applying rules for evaluation.”

  We do not quote the above to try and “lay the blame” on the UN for the situation, but just to show that it is quite reasonable to consider whether a UN employee could have given incorrect advice to a visitor. Also, think how the above report is from 1999. Can you imagine how much more confusing the NGO situation must have been in the early 1990's — when the NGO world was still finding its feet? If they can lose papers and forms, then it is neither surprising nor unreasonable to wonder whether the brother was simply given wrong advice from the UN employee.

  For whatever reason, the Watchtower Society researcher was informed that to continue his currently level of access, he needed to be a representative of a DPI NGO. Perhaps he tried to access “specific areas” which were now off-limits, or perhaps he was misinformed. We do not know. However, this part of Bethel's story is both plausible and believable. We can see that many facilities were only available to NGOs and therefore Bethel's explanation is entirely reasonable. Thus we have no basis to claim Bethel is lying whatsoever.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  Again as respects who could use the library at the UN:

  “Although critics may claim that access to the libraries could have been obtained without the need to register as an NGO, that is not what our research personnel were told at the time. They found it necessary to present an authorized pass to gain access to those specific areas, which were off limits to the public.”

  The critics often quote statements from the United Nations that the main library, the Dag Hammarskjold Library and it's depository libraries, were accessible to absolutely anyone prior to September 2001. You can read e-mails from the UN itself saying this exact thing.

  However, if that is completely true we wonder why the 1994 NGO brochure stated that:

  “For NGOs associated with DPI, the United Nations provides: ... use of the Dag Hammarskjold Library.”

  If absolutely anyone could use the entire facilities, we wonder why the brochure advertises use of that library as a perk of being a DPI NGO. Of course, if we look carefully we can see that the Watchtower Society did not say they merely wanted access to the “main library”. Bethel said that it was “necessary to present an authorized pass to gain access to those specific areas”. Yes, Bethel never claimed it needed a pass to access the Library itself, but to “specific areas” of that library and specific “library facilities”. A quick investigation reveals that there is far, far, more to the United Nations libraries than simply a main library full of books — and far, far, more than simply the Dag Hammarskjold building.

  The library facilities of the United Nations, under the Department of Public Information, includes the following:

  • books
  • film and audio libraries
  • photo libraries
  • access to meetings
  • language courses
  • briefings

  • seminars
  • conferences
  • film screenings
  • commemorations
  • concerts
  • the DPI NGO Resource Center

  To access the full range of these facilities you need a DPI NGO pass. Prior to September 2001 you may have been able to simply walk into the Dag Hammarskjold Library as the opposers correctly say — but it is entirely misleading to say all the “library facilities” were available to anyone, because they were clearly not. An NGO pass was required to access everything — otherwise why would the 1994 brochure advertise full access to that library as an NGO privilege? There is only one logical reason: because around 1991 the DPI was making further facilities available at the library, but only to those with an NGO pass.
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  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

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  thirdwitness

  Mene mene tekel upharsin

  2520