Posts by detective

22

Are you really ready for big moral issues?

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

while reading the abortion thread on this site today, i was reminded of a college class i took on dealing with ethical and moral issues.

i learned something interesting in this class and it was that just because we have strong beliefs about something, it doesn't give us any rights to impose our beliefs on others.. this is of course the "christian" way...to demand that their beliefs should be the standard by which we all live our lives.

this intolerance, or in milder cases disgust for nonconformers, is in itself one of the huge moral issues we face.. essentially, regardless of things being right or wrong, our world defines societal norms by community standards.

detective

Well, as you splash around in the water while the full raft slips away, you just keep yelling at those snug in the raft that it was supposed to be YOUR decision who lives or dies.

4

Getting Someone Out (Part 2)

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

getting someone out (part 2).

in the previous thread of this series:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=20047&site=3.

detective

There is also the use of repetition which serves several purposes. The constant re-reading of materials and ideas assists in the indoctrination process. Heck, this is how many of us learned our multiplication tables. It helps deeply ingrain the ideas into our consciousness/sub-consciousness. While repetition can be excrutiatingly dull, I noticed that Steve Hassan in Combatting Mind Control: Empowering People to Think for themselves, also suggested it might evoke a trance-like state in people (zoning out, glassy eyed, awake but dream-like behaviors). After years of hearing the same things over and over again, I could see how this could be a possibility.
I thought it was worthy of mention as heavy repetition can further solidify behaviors that one might otherwise question.

13

JWs Attracting Child Molestors??? .. News Article.

by MadApostate in

january 21, 2002. judge has little faith in suspect's argument of religious privilege.

by lisa bose mcdermott of the gazette staff.

a federal judge has ordered the collection of blood from a man who said he is jehovah's witness and it would violate the tenets of his religion.. brian brown, 31, of holton, kan., is accused of kidnapping and raping a 10-year-old girl from hutchison, kan., taking her to texas with him as part of his trucking route.

detective

Disgusting.

24

How Do You Get Someone Out? (Part 1)

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

part 1. i thought it might be advantageous to discuss effective ways of getting someone out of the borg and to dispel some myths we might be entertaining about beliefs and changing them.

in this thread i was hoping to start a discussion about the sociology of the witness belief system and how this can be used to help people escape from the mental trap they have found themselves in.

the first outside book i ever read about jws was in the late 1970s by james beckford.

detective

My impression was that this was more about a one-on-one type of interaction as opposed creating a mass exodus from the group. I think it could be useful to consider in personal interactions.

I didn't get the impression that mindchild was suggesting this is the cure-all that will magically liberate six million people. Instead, it seems like Mindchild is suggesting some ways people might be able to better communicate with their loved ones (with the goal of possibly getting them out or at least thinking independently enough so that they can weigh their involvement not by ignorance, but by knowledge).

24

How Do You Get Someone Out? (Part 1)

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

part 1. i thought it might be advantageous to discuss effective ways of getting someone out of the borg and to dispel some myths we might be entertaining about beliefs and changing them.

in this thread i was hoping to start a discussion about the sociology of the witness belief system and how this can be used to help people escape from the mental trap they have found themselves in.

the first outside book i ever read about jws was in the late 1970s by james beckford.

detective

Propolog2,
Leaving well enough alone is sometimes far more tempting than trying to encourage a good open communication with someone. In fact, it can be alot easier! As we know witnesses go door to door with their news. Now, I suppose we could argue whether or not they should do this a thousand times over but in the end,they go out because they feel justified in doing so. Whether it be because they care about those outside their faith or because they feel it is scripturally mandated or just to save their own skin- they feel justified in doing so. Similiarly, those that care about witnesses may feel justified in approaching them with their concerns.
What can we say? We're interconnected. Hands off is one approach to the subject or you can try to open up the communication (yes, even with a "taboo" goal at the end- like getting someone to convert or de-convert). To each his own, I guess, but I'm glad someone brought the topic up.

24

How Do You Get Someone Out? (Part 1)

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

part 1. i thought it might be advantageous to discuss effective ways of getting someone out of the borg and to dispel some myths we might be entertaining about beliefs and changing them.

in this thread i was hoping to start a discussion about the sociology of the witness belief system and how this can be used to help people escape from the mental trap they have found themselves in.

the first outside book i ever read about jws was in the late 1970s by james beckford.

detective

These steps are interesting. For me, the steps were reversed (probably due to my worldliness). It was rule 2,3,1 then 4. Of course, rule number four kinda killed rules two, three and one in the end.
Actually, I had done much prep work getting myself informed and then planting seeds here and there but was forced into a "confrontation" before I was comfortably ready. My ultimate goal was to get my friend out but my more realistic goal was just to get the rusted wheels in my friend's head turning.
I found books by Steven Hassan helpful. Additionally, some basic knowledge of psychology and/or sociology can be beneficial. I think one of the key concepts touched upon in Hassan's books was the issue of trust. Especially if you are a known dissenter. Connecting with someone and gaining there trust is, in my opinion, an essential part of getting them to open themselves up to conversation. Of course, as I unfortunately found out, any mention of rule #4 (tidbits about the group) can send someone into a frenzy of distrust.

Asking people to open up and consider another viewpoint is difficult. There is no exact science to it but having a few basic suggestions to work with is helpful. I'd recommend reading Hassan's books even if you don't believe the group is a "destructive cult" simply because offers reminders and insights into communication that can prove valuable.

22

Avoiding arguments/hurt feelings on JW.com

by teejay in

jw
friends

for exjws (and jws, too), simon's forum is one of the most interesting and potentially beneficial sites on the entire internet since it's a small-scale version of life as it really is.

people from a variety of social, racial and national groups who make up an extended familytied together by a common history of life in the borgcome to share their day to day experiences and openly debate issues old and new.. as different as we are, breakdowns in communication happen and instead of learning something or getting a fresh way of looking at an issue, what should be a reasonable debate turns into an insult-fest.

people, some still hurting from bad experiences as a dub, get hurt even more and bitter feuds result that are felt for a long time.

detective

Nice post, Teejay. Very well thought out and written.

Now about that pesky kitty who's been loitering around it...

45

Do you think JWS are a cult?

by Trixie in

jw
friends

do you think that the jw religion is a cult?

i believe that it is, but i wanted to get other people's opinion.

detective

Sexyteen, your question ...
"One question, what rules does the Governing Body impose that are not in the Bible?"

The ol' no birthday rule, for one.

Yes, we know what they "reason" from the bible. Unfortunately, the bible doesn't speak on the matter. If you weigh the fact that God had over 600 opportunities to mention this birthday ban as Moses trudged up and down the mountain but neglected to do so- well, I figure God just didn't think the birthday thing was that big a deal. But a bunch of crusty old men seem to disagree- go figure.

45

Do you think JWS are a cult?

by Trixie in

jw
friends

do you think that the jw religion is a cult?

i believe that it is, but i wanted to get other people's opinion.

detective

I do believe they fit the social/behavioral criteria of a cult. I also refer to them as a "high control group" so as not to induce visions of shaven heads and tambourines in people I am talking with. Occasionally I'll even call them a "closed society" if I think my listener is especially skittish. Sexyteen gave the exact same description as my JW friend did when I casually mentioned cults in a conversation. And I mean, almost exactly the same description. Coincidence?

Sexyteen, it's good that you honor your parents. Just don't do it on Mother's day or Father's day because on those days the scriptural basis goes out the window. On the up side, you can show your love and respect for your mother on any day of the year but one!