Posts by Zico

63

Predestination?

by Zico in

predestination is something ive been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a wt article on the subject printed in the may awake, which i read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend.

i believe the wt reasoning on the subject is that god has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent may article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didnt assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the wt article in general is that they seem to focus on time a lot, and its this part where the wt idea of predestination seems to fall down to me.

if god created the universe and everything in it, as a jw would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our universe) and so before god created time, it, obviously, wouldnt have existed, and without time, there cant be a past, present and future.

Zico

'I've thought about this a lot too. It seems to me that an all-knowing God knew what we were going to choose when he allowed us to be born, and he created us anyway.'

I agree Renee, he can't be all-knowing, if he doesn't know everything. (Of course!) Even if he doesn't know everything because of his own choice not to. He might have the power to do that, as perhaps he could choose to live within time? But if he chooses to exercise that power, he's not all knowing. (And at what point could he have chosen to exercise that power if he doesn't exist at a point anyway?)

I've just been doing a little more reading on this subject, and I found this Wiki article interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity

That article pretty much echoes my thoughts (Which date back to Augustine of Hippo!) and, incidentally, uses phrases like 'before time' and 'outside of time' :)

16

Did You Ever Question The Talks At The Hall Or The Assemblies?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

did you ever question the talks at the hall or the assemblies?looking back at having spent years present at meetings and assemblies made me think back .

to the time when i both witnessed and delivered talks.

one of the defining moments of why .

Zico

I thought that too, the Demo always goes perfectly. Why don't they ever slam the door in your face, or ask an unexpected question? Not realistic at all.

63

Predestination?

by Zico in

predestination is something ive been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a wt article on the subject printed in the may awake, which i read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend.

i believe the wt reasoning on the subject is that god has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent may article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didnt assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the wt article in general is that they seem to focus on time a lot, and its this part where the wt idea of predestination seems to fall down to me.

if god created the universe and everything in it, as a jw would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our universe) and so before god created time, it, obviously, wouldnt have existed, and without time, there cant be a past, present and future.

Zico

Ever wish you could go back in time and reword a post? I hope that the point I was trying to make, that I don't think an 'all-powerful' God could be restricted by time, and that I think the WT's description of predestination suggests he is restricted by time, was clear anyway, even if we can't personally understand how it's possible. (But then we're expected to accept a lot of incomprehensible things when we consider an all-powerful God aren't we?)

24

Will the WTS ever show a decrease in publishers?

by cultswatter in

the world wide jw publishers increased by only 1.6% in recent years, so it is only a matter of time until the wts will have to start showing a decrease in publishers.

here are some reasons why.

1. many young jw are 'rebellng' against wts authority and are becoming just like mini satans according to a recent wt article.

Zico

We won't see one for a while, I actually think we'll see a bigger than average increase this year (in comparison to the last decade anyway)

35

The Whole JW Judicial System Is Flawed!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i'll tell you why i think so.. your opinions on this subject are welcomed.. nothing in the bible shows a set-up like the one the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses uses.

where in the bible is a "judicial committee" ever mentioned??

or "chairman of the committee"?

Zico

Where in the bible does it say you have to go through a reinstatement process of 6-12 months before being accepted back into the Congregation? (A system which contradicts the 'prodigal son' who was accepted back instantly) in a 'worldly' Court system, the defendant is allowed a lawyer who defends him, there is then a seperate prosecution, and a judge (and possibly jury) who decides which group puts up the better case. In a Judicial committee, the prosecution is the judge. In a 'worldly' Court case, the onus lies mainly on the prosecution to prove the defendant guilty. In a judicial committee, the onus lies on the defendant to prove themselves innocent (or repentant). It's not anywhere close to 'fair'

63

Predestination?

by Zico in

predestination is something ive been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a wt article on the subject printed in the may awake, which i read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend.

i believe the wt reasoning on the subject is that god has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent may article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didnt assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the wt article in general is that they seem to focus on time a lot, and its this part where the wt idea of predestination seems to fall down to me.

if god created the universe and everything in it, as a jw would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our universe) and so before god created time, it, obviously, wouldnt have existed, and without time, there cant be a past, present and future.

Zico

Damn it! Edit: I'm not sure how I'd rephrase that sentence... Gosh, it's hard to comprehend a life without time.

63

Predestination?

by Zico in

predestination is something ive been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a wt article on the subject printed in the may awake, which i read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend.

i believe the wt reasoning on the subject is that god has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent may article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didnt assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the wt article in general is that they seem to focus on time a lot, and its this part where the wt idea of predestination seems to fall down to me.

if god created the universe and everything in it, as a jw would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our universe) and so before god created time, it, obviously, wouldnt have existed, and without time, there cant be a past, present and future.

Zico

Predestination is something I’ve been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a WT article on the subject printed in the May Awake, which I read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend. I believe the WT reasoning on the subject is that God has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent May article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didn’t assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the WT article in general is that they seem to focus on ‘time’ a lot, and it’s this part where the WT idea of predestination seems to fall down to me. If God created the Universe and everything in it, as a JW would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our Universe) and so before God created time, it, obviously, wouldn’t have existed, and without time, there can’t be a past, present and future. As an ‘all powerful’ being, God couldn’t be restricted by one of his creations, so he would still have to live outside of time. From that perspective, how could we not be predestined? For God to live outside of time, he couldn’t just be in the ‘Now’ that man can only be in, and as the society suggests he is when it refers to God ‘looking into the future’ but he would actually be at every point that’s ever happened, and will happen. If not, he’s being restricted by his own creation, and is therefore not all powerful. … Right? Any thoughts?

10

HYMN USED IN CHURCHES SUPPOSEDLY OF WATCHOWER ORIGIN!

by badboy in

jw
friends

the hymn` stand up ,stand up for jesus'.

while looking through a searchable database of zwt 1877-1916,the link to which i found on a wikipedia article called` watchtower magazine'.. in one 1915/1916 article in zwt,it metions this hymn,it is infered that bible students invented this hymn.. is this so?.

Zico

I cannot imagine that being played in a Kingdom Hall! It's not a very Watchtowery song is it?

16

To All Lurkers - Feel the LOVE........

by AK - Jeff in

when i first found this site i was overwhelmed by the diversity - jw's are not accustomed to diverse ideas and thought.. i was obligated by the vast volume of information that condemns the religion i had practiced for 4 decades - jw's are not accustomed to facts and logical argumentation that defies the official position[s], to begin forming my own opinions from what i saw here.. i was speechless when i read the similar posts about things that i could have written, things that bothered me for the longest time.. i was overjoyed to realize that i was not alone in the world in my decision to leave the religion.

yet - if what you had/have/want is the truth, nothing here is a danger to that.

if it is - then it was never truth to begin with.

Zico

I posted my first ever topic (an apologist one) just before heading off to a meeting at the KH. I was terrified at what kind of response I would find when I got home, I don't think I paid any attention at that meeting.

I expected to be flamed and criticised, because I had sensed bitterness while I lurked, but I wasn't, I didn't get ONE nasty response, the people here weren't like I had judged. It was a while before I started getting involved in other discussions, for the first 4 or 5 months of my own membership, I hardly posted outside of my own threads (literally only a few times) as I didn't feel worthy of it, but I did come to admire the great concern people here showed for each other, and intelligence they had. I was coming on almost every day, and learning something new almost every day. It was difficult to challenge my faith, but at the same time, it was exciting to learn so many new things.

It really is a great place. Good post Jeff.

450

Isn't God Awesome?

by Perry in

http://wonderofitall.com/

Zico

'We must excercise the amount of free will that we do have'

Honest question Perry: If everything's foreordained, is it possible to have free will?

Edited to add: Good video. :)