the day started innocently enough.
i had to rush through my morning workout so that mr. scully could go to work.
when i returned from the gym, i picked up my daughters and headed out to do some errands, since the stores had been closed yesterday for good friday, and would also be closed tomorrow, easter sunday.. .
I went back to the fitting rooms to try on the uniforms. When I emerged a few minutes later, who was standing right there, but little Ms. Dub with her set of magazines.
Dubs are targeting fitting rooms now? Wow! How much you wanna bet the elders were over at Victoria's Secret!
Dedalus
my daughter is graduating from high school next month.
she has lived with me all her life.
her mother, a good and faithful dud, ran off with a 'worldly' co-worker five years ago.
LOL @ Farkel!
Maverick,
Sorry about the mess with everything. Hang in there buddy.
Dedalus
i find something very distressing not to mention terribly sad about some of you people (and to those who are not one of these people i kindly ask to please don't fly into some "i'm so insulted!
" snit as if i'm wrongfully referring to you).
to those people i'm referring to i say: you rightfully hope for the british and u.s. military to destroy that saddam monster and its minions of mass-murdering/worshippers throughout iraq.
Farkel wrote:
The point IS that WTS leaders have not repudiated the teaching that 99.99% of the human race (including many dubs) will be massacred by Watchtower God in writing. Therefore, it stands and remains JW doctrine.
They've done more than not repudiate it -- they've echoed it and reinforced it and reintroduced it and celebrated it all through the years, up to the present. They may not have repeated the "99.9%" figure, but it's quite clear to any dub with his ears open what the message of the Watchtower is. Don't forget that as recently as 2000, Our Kingdom Ministry was welcoming the deaths of "unbelieving schoolmates" -- i.e., young children. It's gonna take a lot of children to fill up that 99.9%!
The 2000 KM is the most recent quote I can give you, because after that I couldn't stomach much more of that bloodthirsty literature. But I have no doubts that a cursory glance through last year's bound volumes would turn up more quotes supporting the wonderful truth of global genocide.
Dedalus
i find something very distressing not to mention terribly sad about some of you people (and to those who are not one of these people i kindly ask to please don't fly into some "i'm so insulted!
" snit as if i'm wrongfully referring to you).
to those people i'm referring to i say: you rightfully hope for the british and u.s. military to destroy that saddam monster and its minions of mass-murdering/worshippers throughout iraq.
OK, Derrick, so, I read your response, carefully, more than once. I guess you were trying to present a context for your answer, and I was patient with that, and even appreciated it. However, since the question here is a very specific one -- Does the Organization Teach that All Non-Witnesses Will Die at Armageddon? -- I'm going to end up ignoring a lot of the context you spent so much time establishing. It isn't because I think what you wrote is stupid, but rather, because most of what you wrote has little to do with the question you were answering.
Remember what you wrote a couple of posts ago, which got all this started (for me, anyway)?
The current Watchtower leadership IMO has engaged in manipulation of words on this teaching to keep the rank and file in line, WITHOUT actually teaching that non-JWs will be exterminated.
You are simply WRONG that the official teaching of JWs is that only JWs will survive Armageddon.
My reply, as you know, was to transcribe a series of quotes contradicting your assertions. So far as I can tell, you've done an about-face in your latest reply:
Layer after layer of sincere albeit twisted reasoning follows to the point where they're convinced that anyone outside this supposed one and only "God's organization" are outside for a reason. They honestly believe ... that those outside of the organization might appear to be righteous and sincere when God knows they are not. Therefore those in the Watchtower's higher eschelon harbor an admittedly warped view that the majority of mankind are unrighteous people living under the guise of being good people. This is based on the incorrect scriptural view that God will not save people who are willing to live law-abiding ordinary lives but simply don't love Him or don't want to make any sacrifices for Him.
Aren't you now admitting that the Watchtower teaches that those outside the Organization are unrighteous and therefore marked for death? It sure seems like you are!
Everything else you write, more or less, is your own opinion -- and, however lovely those opinions may be, they have nothing to do with matters of religious doctrine. For example:
I believe that God figures that good people will take what they need from the message of JWs and discard the rest. While the Watchtower is loathe to this concept it is nonetheless being used by Jehovah.
I don't have a problem with you believing this -- it's your right and all that -- though I personally consider it a pretty absurd idea. But so what? None of this answers our question about the Organization's doctrine. Do they teach mass genocide or not? Yes or no?
Your argument, it seems to me, is that the Organization gets some of God's will done without really understanding how wrong it sometimes is. Well, okay, if you believe that, fine. However, even if your claim could be substantiated, it doesn't change the verifiable fact that (once again) the Organization considers all non-Witnesses unrighteous and marked for death.
This analogy was pretty nifty:
Instead of it being an evil "Borg"-like organization run by manipulative religious con-artists its fundamental motives are quite the opposite. Like the mentally and emotionally disturbed child who is willing to do ANYTHING to please the parents, and grossly misinterprets anything the parents say (i.e., the parents say "Johnny, I don't care what you do, but make your younger brother stop crying!" meaning "Johnny, will you try to play with your brother and keep him occupied while we visit with guests in the livingroom?" -- Johnny takes their words to do "anything" to stop the infant from crying. All else failing, Johnny drowns the infant in the bathtub and it ceases to cry.)
So, instead of being a group of manipulative con artists, the Organization is a group of psychopathic, emotionally disturbed homicidal maniacs with the reasoning capacities of mentally incompetent children! Wow! In any case, the reason why the Organization teaches that 99.9 percent of mankind will die is irrelevant -- the original claim made by you was that they didn't teach it at all.
Anyway, Derrick, I'm glad you responded, and if I've misunderstood, well, do go ahead and explain how. It would seem you've contradicted yourself, though, and your mental perambulating is sometimes, um, a bit irrelevant to the specific topic in question, though pleasant enough to read.
Warm fuzzies,
Dedalus
i find something very distressing not to mention terribly sad about some of you people (and to those who are not one of these people i kindly ask to please don't fly into some "i'm so insulted!
" snit as if i'm wrongfully referring to you).
to those people i'm referring to i say: you rightfully hope for the british and u.s. military to destroy that saddam monster and its minions of mass-murdering/worshippers throughout iraq.
Hmmm, "large stick jammed......up your ass" has a nice rhythm to it.....thanks for the inspiration.
Hey hey, don't forget the "so far" part. That's the key to the whole poem!
Oh, and thanks for reading my poems.
No problem. Hey, we aren't making up or anything like that, are we?
Dedalus
i have to say that at one time i wouldn't even consider reading material at a discussion group like this one.
but in the last two years, discussion groups like this one have been indispensable to my dealing with a very personal crisis of faith, and i want to thank the brave and loving persons who sponsor sites like this, and the brave and loving persons who participate in them.
like many here, i was raised as one of jehovah's witnesses and never questioned the validity of the wbts view.
Cool first post, Tech. Keep writing, please!
Dedalus
say you had to go out in field service for 2 hours in your neighborhood and talk to your neighbors about jehovah.
what would somebody have to pay you to do this or would you not do it for any amount of money?
if i am going to humilate myself it better be worth my while.
Say you had to go out in field service for 2 hours in your neighborhood and talk to your neighbors about Jehovah.
Why should we have to do what most Witnesses don't do themselves?
It wouldn't take that much money to get me out there, knocking on doors with my old presentation in hand, saying, "Would you be interested in these latest issues of the Watchtower and Awake? No -- of course not. Hey, have a great day!"
Dedalus
i find something very distressing not to mention terribly sad about some of you people (and to those who are not one of these people i kindly ask to please don't fly into some "i'm so insulted!
" snit as if i'm wrongfully referring to you).
to those people i'm referring to i say: you rightfully hope for the british and u.s. military to destroy that saddam monster and its minions of mass-murdering/worshippers throughout iraq.
Derrick,
Don't have time right now for the response you deserve, but know I appreciate the time you took to answer things. I've printed out your latest post, am reading and rereading it, trying to keep an open mind, see things from a different perspective, stand in your shoes, all of that. And hey, do you think you could accept my apology? I really meant it, you know. Or am I so vile that you, like Robdar, wouldn't deign to accept an apology from one such as myself?
Either way, I'll be posting ASAP.
Dedalus
i find something very distressing not to mention terribly sad about some of you people (and to those who are not one of these people i kindly ask to please don't fly into some "i'm so insulted!
" snit as if i'm wrongfully referring to you).
to those people i'm referring to i say: you rightfully hope for the british and u.s. military to destroy that saddam monster and its minions of mass-murdering/worshippers throughout iraq.
Jesus Fucking Christ already, Robdar.
About your "points":
1) Of course Derrick has a right to ask questions. And I have a right to answer them, and disagree with him, and ask him questions about his questions. And you have a right to question my response, and hound me about apologies aleady made, and hate me or my posts or whatever. We all have rights. Where on this thread were any of those rights denied?
2) Of course Derrick didn't do a drive by, as I realized in hindsight. I apologized because he seemed pretty upset about it, and I then felt I had jumped the gun. However, my apology had nothing to do with you or anything you wrote.
I don't know why you have such a large stick jammed so far up your ass about me, but whatever -- go write an erotic poem about it, I guess, and post it to the forum in some light and puffy thread better suited to your particular intellectual gifts.
Dedalus
another powerful observation about witness kids: it's amazing how quickly the "truth" can evaporate amidst them.. while you and i talk about healing and moving on and agonize about changing our whole lives, many of these kids.
react as if the organization never meant anything to them.. i knew a young sister who left ( an honor roll student with long term witness parents, elder dad and aux pio mother).
who acted astonished that the congregation would df people for "living together".
Kids these days are more media-savvy, and it's rather difficult to bullshit them. What Witnesses believe is 100% bullshit. Consequently, most Witness kids don't take it to heart.
I hope this is what brings down the Organization -- each successive generation of kids takes it less seriously, until there's not enough serious Witnesses to run the Watchtower circus.
Dedalus
