Posts by sweetscholar

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

Little Toe, you missed nothing so great with your nephews. there's that emotionalism thing again. boy if Satan doesn't get people with that kind of thing. stumbling blocks. but as far as makeup and heavy eye paint, the WT rightly condemns the EXCESSIVE use of that stuff too. a slutty type look or whatever. again, I agree that the Bible does not state a specific "rule" in that sense against formal birthday celebrations. but the general applicable PRINCIPLES are there.

just like the thing (although not exactly the same) with dumping garbage on your neighbor's lawn is not specifically mentioned in Scripture. otherwise the Bible would have to be this 25 volume Rabbinic Talmudic thing, with every minute scenario coming up every minute. that's why a lof ot the Bible (though not exactly a small book) is PRINCIPLES and general guidelines. in other words, what actually goes on with worldly pagan vain "customs of the nations" birthday celebrations? things that are compatible with drift and tenor of Holy Scripture and sound and holy and pure and righteous and Christian living? methinks not. that's the point. and also, one thing about "pinatas", again you don't see anyone in the Scriptures, bad guys or whatever guys, knocking pinatas down, but "birthday celebrations" ARE mentioned, and always in a suspicious and negative and unfavorable light. that's one crucial difference.

again, consider this Scripture, as far as "testing hearts" Ezekiel 14:4,5:

"Therefore speak with them and you must say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: "Any man at all of the house of Israel that brings up his dungy idols upon his heart and that places the very stumbling block causing his error in front of his face and that actually comes to the prophet, I, Jehovah, I will let Myself be brought to answer him in the matter according to the multitude of DUNGY IDOLS,

"FOR THE PURPOSE OF CATCHING THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL (APOSTATE CHRISTENDOM IN "TYPE" AND "FORESHADOW) BY THEIR HEART, because they have withdrawn themselves from Me through their dungy idols--all of them."

not all the idols are necessarily specifically listed. in minute detail. but general principles are there. you see what's being said though? that God lets this or that TO CATCH the apostates and idolaters, by what's in their HEART, and they have left and WITHDRAWN themselves from the Truth and Purity of Jehovah.

Understand something. EVERYTHING IN THE HOLY HEBREW SCRIPTURES. what's called the "Old Testament", is written AFORETIME. for our time. and as the Holy Spirit says "for OUR INSTRUCTION". (Romans 15:4) "ALL SCRIPTURE" is profitable and beneficial for DOCTRINE AND REPROOF. and make you "wise for salvation". and be "completely equipped" and "instructed in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:15-17) From Genesis to Revelation. and is necessary for the Christian. "neither let us murmur as some of them (the Israelites) murmured" and "beware the rebellious talk of Korah" and "on Pharaoh's birthday he made a feast" and "when Herod's birthday came, Herodias's daughter danced before the banquet and seduced Herod" and "do not learn the eway of the nations at all,..for their customs are vanity and hot air." (Read Jude 4-12; 1 Corinthians 10:10; Genesis 40:20; Matthew 14:6; Jeremiah 10:2.) interesting exchange. thanks for taking time to consider what I'm saying. please don't write off my words though. as I will never dismiss yours. I considered carefully Almost's thing on "eye paint" and looked into it more. I'm willing to keep open myself. but not to the point of being too wishy washy and tossed about so easily. but a reasonable balance. (James 1:8)

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

I didn't mean to upset you by that "desperate heart" thing I said, but you over-reacted. the way you came off to me was not really called for. feeling convicted and indicted, are we? I can't help that. you chose to make a silly comparison of "applauding speeches" which is not even hinted at in the Holy Bible as questionable, with something that IS questionable and unfavorable, in both "Testaments". that's what my point was with that.

and oral sex within marriage is not a sin, by the way. yeah, I know that certain uptight elders would impose there nonsense on other people, like side-burns in America, depending on what state you're in. but oral sex in marriage is not mentioned at all in Leviticus, though everything else you could imagine, like no sex with cows, no sex with your mother, nudity issues, and the only prohibition in the area of sex inside marriage, in the Law of Moses, was not to have sex with your wife while she's menstruating. that was it. though so many other weird things were mentioned. obviouly oral sex play is irrelevant to God, as long as it's mutually done in marriage. Song of Solomon encourages forms of it actually when it talks about "slickness of tongue" and "palate" and "lips and teeth" in very erotic and sexual contexts and manners. (Song of Solomon 7:9; 6:6; 4:11; 10:12) and of coursing sucking your wife's breasts, in a sexual context. oral mouth, breasts erogenous. (sorry for sounding so graphic, but if carefully looked at, so is the Bible in many ways. the Bible is not as prudish as people think.) so that's a preference and conscience matter. but masturbation is an assault on yourself, and a subtle form of homosexuality. DON'T HAVE A FIT PLEASE THAT I SAID THAT. don't misunderstand. masturbation is NOT "homosexuality" per se. got that? I said it's a SUBTLE form of it in a sense, because look at what's happening. a man is stimulating a man's sex organ for sexual pleasure and fulfillment, EVEN IF IT'S HIS OWN SEX ORGAN. only a female hand has any natural ideal business being on a man's penis. for sexual things. his wife. not a man's or his own hand. that's all I meant. lol. really though.

but there have been some studies (covered up studies I might add) that masturabation increases the chance of prostate cancer. especially chronic excessive masturbation. the muscles react differently (said Masters and Johnsons) with masturbation than with natural two person copulation. but we digress a bit. I'm making the point that other things are not exactly spelled out so clearly in Scripture, but principles need to applied. The Bible says nothing specific about dumping your garbabe on your neighbor's lawn. against your neighbor's wishes, does it? yet we know that would violate PRINCIPLES in the Holy Scriptures. like "love your neighbor" and other things. again, I agree that masturbation or birthday celebrations are NOT to be equated with murder, stealing, or lying, or defrauding, or whatever. but that does NOT mean that it's the sanest, wisest, purest, most Biblical or most Christ-like thing to do either.

only the sinners, not the saints, ever celebrated their day of their own birth, with all those pagan trappings to boot, tied in with it. throughout Biblical history. and that's NOT something to fluff off as of no account. because we personally might like blowing out candles or having formal little empty "look at me" ceremonies for it. again, though, applauding a talk is a lame comparison. and I'm not the foul word you called me just for saying that. if so "then the goads or pricks" those thorny stubborn and principles are that way too. Check this out "the words of the wise are as GOADS (spikey pricky things used to move stubborn donkeys), and as NAILS fastened by the masters." (Ecclesiastes 12:11) and "it is Jesus whom you are persecuting, TO KICK AGAINST THE PRICKS MAKES IT HARDER FOR YOU." (Acts 9:5; 26:14) but again, I meant no horrible insult or offense to you. I just meant that matter of factly and straightforwardly. understand that YOU made the comments and brought those comparisons and things up. I only responded to them. and yes, sorry to say, human nature and the human "heart" is "desperate" for self-justification, and is "treacherous" and the Devil IS out there, fooling people with vain crap. those things are TRUE. Biblically and logically. take care.

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

because I know that some people may misunderstand what I said at the end about "Korah, Dathan, and Abiram", and they might think that I was trying to say that they thought birthday celebrations were ok and then got electrocuted. no, that's not specifically what I was saying. I meant that "Korah" and his apostate crew "thought they were right" and had "no doubts" that their position was "ok". I meant that as a general principle. the point that people can think they're not doing wrong or questionable or rebellious or vain or empty or silly things, and be totally in the "I never knew you" camp that Christ discussed. many examples in Scripture of people thinking they were worshipping God correctly or that their behavior was no problem (hello, those who rejected Noah's message). Korah thought he was "right" too. but got a very rude surprise. reality can be harsh. and human nature is el stinko. "bad from youth up" Genesis 5,6. and the Devil running around planting corrupt seeds of rebellion and independent thinking. that was the reason for my Korah mention and tying it in with "birthday celebrations". doing what's right or "feels ok" in your own mind.

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

hi. to AlmostAtheist. I appreciat your responses and points. to your "eye paint" hang up. and your reference to 2 Kings 9:30 and so forth. Jezebel is said to have painted her eyes, and in Jeremiah, it's firguratively said of whorish Israel. but analyze it carefully in 2 Kings 9. it's also said that Jezebel "made up her hair beautifully". are you gonna throw that in as well? obviously that was just narration and reporting of what happened. also, the WT DOES discourage heavy use of makeup. not total use, but HEAVY EXTRAVAGANT WHORISH USE. didn't you ever read that? but some Protestant fanatical uptight groups (high Pentecostals) forbid it completely. just like the Baptists forbid any drinking of alcohol, saying that Jesus turned water into unfermented grape juice, despite the fact that the caterer at that wedding party said "they would get drunk later." (John 2:10) we know that. but to compare "eye paint" with blowing out candles and "making a wish" to a Druid demon god (sorry but that IS the root of background of that, people) is a bit of a stretch. though I concede that it is a point to consider. just not a very strong point. "eye paint" is whatever. adornment. and the WT has discouraged that sort of thing when it's done IMmoderately and sluttishly. so what? but moderate sober use of makeup is fine. it's said of Christ's bride, figuratively, that "she made herself ready." so there's a balance.

and to the other dude who mentioned that you would get disfellowshipped if "openly displaying it" well yeah, if there's blatant flaunting of what's discouraged by the Slave and by the Bible. it DEPENDS. if it's done by someone more discreetly, and done with the view of trying to not stumble others, but secretly, like a secret weakness and whatnot, then there would be no DFing. I asked and checked that out. that person would just be talked to of course, but can't be forced to do anything. he or she would be looked at as not the best example though. and no speaking privileges or whatever. but NOT total shunning or expelling. the "blatant openly arrogantly flaunting it" is kind of a different thing in a way. it's not so black and white. now back to AlmostAtheist, who I wish would be TOTAL Witness of the Lord again, you mentioned other things that you purport to be "self-glorification" as much or similar to "birthday celebrations" with all their pagan vain trappings. you mentioned "baby showers". again, it has to be all things (like pieces in a puzzle) taken TOGETHER. baby showers are never put in a bad light in Scripture. whether you wanna believe it or not, BIRTHDAY CELEBRATIONS KINDA ARE !!!! and if that's the case, wedding PARTIES, are "glorifying" the couple getting married, but God knows how to carefully distinguish things.

I agree it's not so black and white, because we don't see in Exodus or Leviticus "thou must not observe the day of your birth." so it's not a hard commandment in that sense. but there are plenty of things that are not to be done that are not spelled out, but with general principles to guide us. nowhere does the Bible EXPLICITLY condemn "masturbation" chronic habitual masturbation. right? but let's get real here. the Bible condemns it IN PRINCIPLE. "deaden your body members" and "think upon pure things" and "semen" in Leviticus and its significances. and defiling the flesh. I know many don't believe it, but studies show that masturbation is NOT all that "harmless" physically. but increases blood fats in the heart and a substance called "nor-adrenaline". not good for the blood, heart, muscles, and nerves. it's not the worst thing in the world, especially if it's done once in a blue. but someone who masturbates 11 times a day does not exactly have the Bible to encourage that nonsense, right? see the point. and the thing with birthday celebrations is even more explicit in the Bible, in a sense, cuz they're actually mentioned, and not with servants of Jehovah ever doing them. only lost pagans. how boot dat? and please stop with Jezebel's eye paint already. cuz I already addressed that. she also did her hair up too. so what?

and heavy makeup is not recommended either. that's in the literature (as well as in common sense). And again, to the guy Little Toe who said "birthday celebrations are no more pagan than applauding a speech" I have to say that only someone with a "desperate heart" (Jeremiah 17:9) seeking to justify his questionable and emotional things would say something like that. AlmostAtheist, you'll agree with me on that one right? "applauding a speech" is not to be compared with what Herod and Pharaoh did, and "blowing out pagan candles" from Druid devil worship. you'll back me on that I'm sure.

Also, I agree that "not everything a human would do or conjure up is bad", but "God's thoughts are higher than yours" is said for a reason. "narrow road" for a reason. and a lot of junk that humans have conjured up (and you're forgetting that Satan is out there, deceiving the whole world !!!! do you think that his subtle crafty designs don't come into play here? don't dismiss the Devil and his presence as a factor in how the world is, and how people in general behave, and all the "vain customs" that they have.)

back to my friend Almost. I made the point about passover and sabbath being mentioned and you said naturally because they were expressly commanded by Jehovah. I agree with you that that's the primary reason. but it's not the only one. because the wedding in Cana in John 2 was NOT something "commanded by Jehovah" to the Israelites, yet it's incidentally mentioned. and so are other little things here and there. some banquets and whatever. but my point was that WHY was it "cultural" for those Jews NOT to celebrate their birthdays? you have to understand that their "culture" was inextricably tied in with their "religion". they were interchangeable in many ways. not a point to be overlooked. and you concede at lesst that no Apostle nor Christ, during that ministry, ever celebrated any one of their birthdays. some people won't admit that. they might say "well how do you know they didn't??"" for real. the point is that there were reasons that Moses, Jeremiah, Peter, and Jesus, and Paul didn't do that kind of thing. they were FULLY AND WHOLLY consecrated and pure unto the Lord. not perfectly every second. but they did not go out of their way consciously to do questionable and vain things, or "customs of the nations".

now as to your remark about Jeremiah 10 not referring to Christmas. the WT said that in principle Jeremiah 10 does not exactly HELP the case for Christmas trees. in other words, let's put it this way. if you were attempting to support Christmas celebrations and the use of Evergreen Christmas Trees in that, is Jeremiah 10 the first place that you'd go to try to BACK UP OR JUSTIFY your position?? lol. I think my point is made just with that question alone. it says clearly that "they decked the trees," and "works of their hands" and "vanity" and "hot air" and "learn not the way of the nations at all" and "idolatry."

with Jeremiah 10 in the Bible, why would anyone CLAIMING to be a total Bible-following (principles "aforetime" and all) pure holy double-separated double-sanctified unadulterated untainted un-worldly "Christian" be involved in that?? not to mention the host of other Verses in both "Testaments" that deal with "mixing the true with the false" and "what does Christ have to do with idols" etc? JWs don't forbid drinking wine in moderation cuz the Bible does not forbid that. even in principle it doesn't. it condemns EXCESS with wine. (hi Baptists who go beyond that.) but birthday celebrations and all its BLATANT pagan trappings and background is a different matter. it's put in a negative smelly questionable light in Scripture. though not a terrible crime like murder or stealing. so it's not quite in that level.

anyway, gotta go for now. hope this helps. and always remember "the heart is deceptive and treacherous" and "there exists a way that seems right to a man, but the ways of death are the ends of it afterward." people do what's right "in their own eyes" no matter what onerous and negative light the Scriptures put those things in. that was predicted. my point to is why chance it? when in doubt leave it out, comes into play. I know some hardened non-caring emotional types will say "oh but I'm not in doubt. I think it's ok." well, so did Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. and what was there end result? well they were electrocuted, and burned with fire. (See Numbers 15,16; Jude 11,12.)

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

the Bible DOES condemn pagan Christmas. big time. not just that birthday celebrations in general are questionable and discouraged in Scripture. but because Christmas in particular is a mixing of the true with the false, light with darkness, Christ with idols. 1,2 Corinthians. which the Bible DOES CONDEMN AND PROHIBIT SO SUPER CLEARLY. Read Jeremiah 10 where "tree decoration" is called "vanity of the nations". when it's in a religous context.

principles are there for a reason. "touch not the unclean thing" in both Testaments. in the context of religious pollution and corruption and "dungy idols" Ezekiel, Isaiah. December 25th is a pagan date right off the bat. pagan trees, pagan sun god worship, saturnalia, solstice, reindeer, mistle toe, all pagan and demonic in origin, and all dumped on Christ's supposed "birthday". and you think the Bible doesn't condemn that kind of thing? the principles are there. "WRITTEN AFORE TIME, for OUR INSTRUCTION" Romans 15. "do not partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons" (1,2 Corinthians) all the baggage and trappings of pagan Christmas find no backing or support or origin in the Holy Bible, but in unholy Babylon. that's just an encyclopedic fact, not an opinion. as well as a Biblical fact. not just an "interpretation".

read Jeremiah 10 slowly, carefully, and closely, and honestly. Read Isaiah and Ezekiel. "dungy idols" mixed with the Bible. yikes. read 1st and 2nd Corinthians and Revelation Chapter 9. carefully. those things are in the Bible for what then? do be ignored, watered down, side-stepped, or cut out with Jehudi's pen-knife? because "what's not to love about those things" emotionalism? I understand that it's hard to drop pagan emotional traditional things. but Christ called it a hard road and a "narrow door" and "carry your torture stake" for reasons. He also said "he that does not hate father, mother, wife, or children for My sake is not worthy of Me." what was meant? not literal "hating" but that it would seem like "hating" to uptight mothers on "mother's day" who don't receive cards anymore from their JW sons, and she cries "you hate me, you hate me!" that actually happened to a witness friend of mine.

no. what's meant is that it would seem like hate because the true Christian puts Christ and the Bible ahead of any humans, even family members. it means to love Christ MORE !!! and you don't honor or love Christ by mixing and dumping pagan junk on His supposed "birthday" on a pagan date, with no sanction in Scripture whatsoever. there are REASONS the Witnesses do what they do and abstain from what they abstain from. Biblical reasons, and not just "wild interpretations" taken from the air. arbitrarily. I know it suits many to believe that. but they need to ask themselves why they're so quick to believe that. is it for Biblical reasons or for more "human" emotional "seems right in my own eyes" type reasons. think about it.

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

there's no question about that. that's why it's not spelled out so definitively and dogmatically in any of the 613 commandments in the Mosaic Law. agreed. and disfellowshipping would not necessarily happen if a witness celebrated his birthday. but did nothing else wrong or questionable in his life. cuz it's not a "disfellowshipping offense". it's not one of the things listed by Paul that would bar someone from "inheriting the kingdom" PER SE. but the general PRINCIPLES are there, and it's not exactly ENCOURAGED in Scripture either? you'll have to admit that much. if ANYTHING, if not explicitly prohibited in Scripture, it's more DIScouraged in Scripture. in other words, at the very least, according to the internal Biblical evidence that's there, as well as the testimony of general history and the background of certain things associated with cakes and candles and making wishes, IT'S A QUESTIONABLE PRACTICE. not to be BIBLICALLY recommended. cuz there's nothing in Scripture to exactly encourage it. but only to discourage it. it just has a bad smell to it, given the characters in the Bible who engaged in it, and the crazy horrible things that happened on those days recorded. and just the general Biblical principles. with such things as "don't follow customs of vanity and corruption and of the nations" etc.

and as far as that remark from that other guy, about "being human".

well what needs to be understood is according to the Bible, and all the phsyical facts around us, we are FALLEN HUMANS WITH CORRUPT TREACHEROUS SELF-JUSTIFYING HEARTS. (Genesis, Jeremiah, Romans)

and "lean NOT upon your own (human) understanding" (Proverbs) but in ALL your ways, take notice (acknowledge perceive) HIM, the Creator, and HE will make your paths straight."

or one of my favorites

"there exists a way that seems right to a man; but the ways of death are the ends of it afterwards."

(also in Proverbs)

one other thing about the "human" remark. Jesus was PERFECT HUMAN. true man, sinless and holy. and He did not celebrate the day of His own birth. and we are told to "imitate Him." you'll say that there's no clear evidence that He didn't. well if in 3 1/2 years there's no hint that He or His 12 Apostles celebrated each other's birthdays, the way they did weddings, passover and sabbaths, I think it's a safe bet that it never happened. because the passovers and sabbaths are mentioned all the time, but never any one of the 12 Apostles' birthdays, nor the Messiah's, in any of that time. I'll follow their example, not the example of Herod the Maniac, nor that of Pharaoh the Pagan.

it's not easy being a true genuine total narrow-road separated sanctified Bible-believing Bible-following real Christian. again though, celebrating your birthday is NOT the worst thing in the world, but it's not exactly the most holy or noblest or most Biblical either. so I agree. a balanced view is needed. not a dogmatic one. but an honest one. not one that suits our wishes and and "human understandings, emotions, affections, traditions, or preferences." if the Bible puts birthday celebrations in a questionable light at the very least, then why shouldn't JWs, who seek to follow the Bible ultra closely ??

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

...that BAD PEOPLE were doing it. in other words, if you see two occasions, one in each "Testament" of "birthday celebrations" being done, and the only two characters were NOT people like Moses, Elijah, David, Isaiah, Jesus, Peter, or Paul, but vile pagans, then the fact that "bad things happened on those days" is mayber 25% of the reason to be suspicious of it. the main reason is that it was bad PEOPLE doing it. and you'll say maybe "well bad people urinated too, so are we to abstain from that?" of course you know that's desperate, because urinating is not to be compared with creature worship and vain self-glorification ceremonies, and Druid candles and "making a wish" to a sacred demon. even if that's not what's specifically in mind. it all boils down to 'be ye holy as I am holy'. the "let no man judge you as to new moons" is also a week comparison and attempt because where do you see Paul writing "let no man judge you as to observing pagan rooted self-honoring birthday parties"? those "new moons and sabbaths" were specifically commanded by God at one time to the Hebrew Israelites. Christmas, Saturnalia, Easter, Ishtar, and vain birthday celebrations were never commanded or even recommended by the Almighty at any dispensation. and in Job it does not say "birthday". why not? why wasn't it clearly unambiguously spelled out what it was? like with Pharaoh's case? maybe because it wasn't actually "birthday"? and maybe some special commemoration? or just a dinner they were having in thanks? or is that you believe that was Job's birthday because you WANT to believe that? with no real proof for that assertion? is it because you celebrate your own birthday and the birthday of the sun god every winter solstice and it makes you uncomfortable to think that it might be wrong or unholy, so you look for desperate loopholes and attempts to justify yourself and your practice ("the heart is treacherous and desperate" Jeremiah) I guess God will have to judge that. but please think about it, Carla. and don't summarily dismiss what I'm saying because you don't like me. please think about it. thank you. and Jeremiah 10 condemns "way of the nations" as "vanity" and "hot air". "tree decoration" and customs etc. that's not the same as the Jewish feasts and celebrations that were one time commanded by God. that is following the "scripts". it may appear "flimsy" to you. but the principles are there. "written AFORE TIME, for OUR INSTRUCTION." Romans 15:4 f our main reasons that the witnesses of Jehovah don't celebrrate birthdays. (ONE) the two times that birthday celebrations are mentioned in the Sacred Record, it was THE BAD GUYS, in both cases. never any mention of any saint of God, servant of Jehovah, ever doing that kind of thing. (TWO) each of those two times, something bad happened. heads got chopped off. bad omen. bad smell. (do you need a slide rule to tell you that something off about that? God wants us to reason things out too. to test us. and see what's in our hearts. and see if we will really get rid of all the "dungy idols" in our lives. all types of "idolatry". Deuteronomy 8:16; Ezekiel 14:4,5) (THREE) also, it's a form of self-glorification and vanity. (JWs are into worshipping God, not self). (FOUR) and also, there are clear PRINCIPLES in the Bible about "do not follow the way of the nations" and "do not be worried about them" and "their customs are hot air". and "be ye separate" and "touch not the unclean thing" and be ye holy, for I am holy", and "do not mix Christ with idols" (ala the pagan Christmas sun-god tree worship that is dumped on Christ's suppposed "birthday") , and "do not mix the true with the false", and love God with your WHOLE HEART AND MIND, and to empty "self". general principles, that are not really all that compatible with the vain custom of "birthday celebrations" with all its pagan trappings, baggage, and background.

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

not all "church fathers" of the second and third centuries, especially, held any idea of "con-substantial Godhead". but to other one, I have to say that "driving cars" and "wearing pants" is not a good comparison to pagan vain worldly birthday celebrations, that only sinners not saints engaged in. the candles and the cake only add "icing" (pardon the pun) to the point (being from Druid devil worship, "making a wish" to what? the background was a sacred demon god. religious overtones with candles and "making a wish.") that it's a no no for pure holy separated sanctified untainted Biblical Christians. pants were not invented yet. but pagan self-glorification creature worship days have been around since Cain. and as for Job, that's hardly solid proof. "his day" means necessarily "birthday"? that's conjecture at best. a desperate attempt at worst. if it was Job's "birthday" then why didn't just plainly say "birthday" like it plainly stated it in Pharaoh's case? in the Hebrew? or in Herod's case? why just say "his day"? "his day" is very day and could be referring to some commemoration as the patriarch of his big family and estate. but why not just say "birthday" if that's what it was? with Pharaoh the wording is not "his day", but clearly unambiguously "his birthday".

also, wedding anniversaries, are in the vain of "wedding parties" which Jesus not only did not condemn but participated in and made more enjoyable (turning water into true wine). and you mean to tell me that in 3 1/2 years of Jesus' life and ministry (as well as before His ministry) there would be no incidental recording or mentioning of any of the 12 Apostles or Him celebrating any one of their birthdays, yet the Passover and Sabbath were always mentioned? if they in fact did celebrate them? also, "peeing" is not the same as birthday celebrations of worldly vanity and self-glorification. and there's nothing with also referring a little bit to the Reasoning book. there's some interesting stuff in there about this matter. that it wouldn't hurt to re-examine and look at. anyway, I hope this helps a little bit.

42

For sweetscholar: Is there proof that the Bible is inspired by God?

by seattleniceguy in

hello sweetscholar, .

as promised, here is the thread where we can discuss biblical inspiration.

in your post to me on the other thread, you made three main points: .

sweetscholar

I'm glad you agree with me that the circumcision thing is a strong type of proof. I red in a number of places that the 8th day after birth is not just "normal level" but the HIGHEST of the male's ENTIRE life. and then goes down on the 9th day after birth and stays pretty steady. something that simply could not be known back then. coincidence? some coincidence. also, I agree with you that simply reporting good factual history "Belshazzar, Pilate, Cyrus, Artaxerses" etc, does not make a book inspired, but my point is that IT LENDS WEIGHT to that notion. the Koran has glaring historical and scientific mistakes all over the place. and not just "metaphorical" things. but actual historical inaccuracies. Moses and Abraham did not live at the same time. And Abraham did not go into Saudi Arabia. and Samaria as a nation did not exist at the time of Moses and Aaron. that is documented, that Samaria was formed hundreds years after Moses' death. which I can get more into at another time.

and there's certain evidence to indicate that Isaiah was written before Cyrus's birth. the Dead Sea Scrolls indicate manuscripts 1000 years before Christ's birth, for the scroll of Isaiah. the "earth hanging upon nothing" was not a common belief or notion at the time of Job. no one ever even said things like that metaphorically or in any sense. the sockets thing though (written in the very same book of Job) obviously like "sun rising" is figurative. and from the standpoint of how humans would perceive it. the Bible was NOT written as a science textbook, per se, it must be remembered, but mainly as a spiritual, religious, prophetical guide. and as a profound History Book from God. A Divine Chronicle and Record. also a Doctrinal Guide. written in such a way so as to test men's hearts. after the Fall of Adam, and after sin entered, etc.

and as far as excrement, well yes the only use for that (even that has a use) is for fertilizer. which is why flies love it so much. and burying it is the most sensible thing to do. not everyone did that necessarily though. but I agree that alone would not be solid proof by itself that the Bible is from God. but one of a number of things to point to that direction.

but to reiterate. the circumcision on the 8th day is one major proof that I use, cuz Moses had no microscope or modern laboratory to know and perceive that on his own. trial and error arguments don't cut it. (pardon the pun) because it's too perfect and coincidental. and it's not just "normalizing" of the vitamin k quantity but actually the HIGHEST LEVEL on the eighth day. so fitting. and that does seem to fit in a way, divinely though, with the 7th day and day after point.

all I'm saying is to be at least open to the idea that the Bible just MIGHT be divinely authored and not just work of human genius. (another point is that the Bible is remarkably candid about the mistakes of its "heroes". David, Solomon, Noah, Peter, Paul, Barnabas, Manasseh. something that Egypt did not report of their kings and "heroes". covering up embarrassing things and failings was the practice of the pagan nations and their chroniclers. not a conclusive proof I'll grant, but just one other thing to put on the scale of evidence.

144

Is repititive imprinting of ideas a primary cult tactic?

by hubert in

in a post by syn that lady lee has brought up again, there is this statement by syn.

i could underline my watchtower in 10 minutes, tops, and be sure that all the answers were right.

many esteemed researchers have shown that repetitive imprinting of ideas is a primary cult tactic, and i tend to agree with them.

sweetscholar

I think that there's confusion and mis-application of the terms. new light is not what you think. it's a progressive understanding of the gospel that's already there. either of the gospel of God's Grace, or the Gospel of God's Kingdom. dross has to be removed, and clarification of understanding of the already revealed gospel. you think John Huss knew everything there was to know about the Bible and in the Bible?? prophecy, senacharib, kingdom, dispensations, covenants, last days, Judgment, second coming, millennium, intricate nuggets of everything? that's what's meant. when did I say "new gospel"? no. it's a brighter and clearer understanding of the glorious Treasure House that is the Holy Bible, in the face of physical facts, and world history, and the "last days". I hope that helps. if not, then maybe we'll talk more about it in emails. I

'm glad you're into the Bible though. you don't disbelieve God's Word. you respect the Scriptures as God's Revelation. some ex-JWs don't have any faith in the Bible at all I notice. they think it's just a nice religious book of men, just like the koran. I admit that at first glance that thing in 1 John 2 can make a person think for a moment what the deal is. because it seems a little contradictory with other things in the Bible about "teachers and pastors" of the church and "how can know without someone to teach and guide me" and Phillip, an elder of the church, was that someone. etc. that's why in the Bible things mean different things in different senses. that's what needs to be understood. if a teaching authority wasn't necessary or important, then why WAS there a teaching authority and "Elder Body" and Governing Authority in Acts and throughout the Epistles. (Acts, Romans, Galatians) Paul being one big leader and governor of God's Church. Apostle to the Gentiles. it's just something to think about.

and also, that letter from John, was not a "just because" or "dear" letter. but an instructive inspired letter, "necessary for DOCTRINE" ("all Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for DOCTRINE" 2 Timothy 3:16).