Posts by conflicted

2

Is Religion Evolving?

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

after reading the post "mire of atheism" which is a really interesting thread, i came to a thought.

when i first came to this board i wanted to add conviction to beliefs that i was not yet convinced of.

when i first started studying with the jw's i wanted to find god in the world.

conflicted

Peacepipe, great thread! That is the very next step after 'mire of ateism'. It got kind of silly after I posted, but I'm glad you took it to another level. I do believe that religion evolves.

Lets look at Catholisism, 500 years ago it was a very different religion than it is today. They used to perform exorsisms to rid their followers from demon possesion, they thought it was ok to torture people into believing as they do, they thought torturing themselves in the manner Christ was tortured brought them closer to God. That last one still goes on, but less and less frequently.

Jehovah's Witnesses is another example of this religous evolution, even though they are fairly new. I don't need to tell you how many times they changed policy - the evidence is all over this board. They changed to please the majority of their followers - to prevent mass exodus. And they will continue to change if they want to keep their members. Eventually one of two things will happen; a) They will make the proper changes to create an equilibrium between the top echelon and the rank and file, and thus continue on as a stronger faith. Or b) They will remain rigid in their faults and lose more and more followers until there is nothing left.

Neither of these scenarios will manifest themselves immediately, as this is an evolutionary process - we will see the results in time.

But in the end, all religions must evolve as the people who make up their numbers grow as a civilization.

93

"Mire of atheism..."

by Julie in

jw
friends

:i welcome those of your quality of character and refusal to sink into the mire of atheism or deep cynicism, .

i found these words to be so interesting.

i have seen posts (albeit few) that discuss the bible and whether or not it is of god.

conflicted

in 1,000 years they will be worshiping me

I hopped in my time machine and snapped a pic of bboyneko's congregation. Count me out.

93

"Mire of atheism..."

by Julie in

jw
friends

:i welcome those of your quality of character and refusal to sink into the mire of atheism or deep cynicism, .

i found these words to be so interesting.

i have seen posts (albeit few) that discuss the bible and whether or not it is of god.

conflicted

There are a lot of differing opinions here, and that is all they are - opinions. Because NOBODY KNOWS for sure, there is no proof one way or the other. I think that's what makes threads of this sort great, nobody is right or wrong - just different thoughts.

So, here is my opinion.

Two thousand years ago man worshipped many gods. The greeks and romans had gods for everything; weather, crops, love, procreation, luck, war etc... Then man extended his base of knowledge. Science explained weather patterns - poof, there go the weather gods. Biology explained anatomy and the life cycles of plants and animals - poof, no more gods of fertility and love.

Once these gods (who were once part of a grand divine purpose) were proven false, the whole belief system fell apart. I doubt that this happened overnight, but rather over a lengthy period of time. During which people slowly lost their faith in the old system, and a new one was born.

In the meantime, archeoligical discoveries of past civilizations were found. Scrolls and tablets spoke of 'One God' who created everything. This system fit the bill for these people whose old gods were proven lacking.

Now, there is a worldwide acceptance of the 'One God' belief sytem. Christian, Bhudist, Muslim or other - the doctrins differ, but the belief in one all-powerful being predominates their faiths.

On the other hand, there are some who don't believe in any of this. There are questions that the religions can't answer. Again, man has 'outgrown' the previous religious beliefs. Our knowldge base has expanded, and a new system is required.

What will that system be? I don't know, but I seriously doubt that in 1000 years that man will still be worshiping the same gods he does today. The point is that as we learn more, the writings of the past make less and less sense. Poof - there goes Jah, in comes someone else.

40

Experiences: How you know it ain't the 'truth'

by LDH in

jw
friends

please post your experiences here for any lurkers to read.

when i was a teenager, there was a young lady early 20's who had moved into our cong.

she had a newborn son and had just married her worldly boyfriend, the father of the baby.

conflicted

There was a family in our hall, father was an elder, mother was a poineer, daughter was a model JW youth. When the daughter got to be a senior in high school she wanted to start. The father decided to let her go out a few times under supervision. When the other elders got to hear of it they held a committee meeting to discuss the daughters misconduct and the fathers appearant liberalism. They later held a judicial committee to see if the daughter was repentant - she stated that she wasn't because she didn't think she did anything wrong, her father was aware of her actiions and supported her decision. She was DF'd - the whole family was torn apart by this, and suprisingly supported their daughter - they too were DF'd.

There was no proof of any kind that anything bad happened - just a chaperoned and supervised date. And the entire family was ostricised.

I doubt God wants his people treated this way - therefore they can't have the truth.

25

So Sad....

by StifflersErSlayersBrother in

jw
friends

imagine this.. a little child,about 3 or 4, sitting there, looking around.... he leans over and sees his shoe is untied, he looks up at his parent who doesn't seem to care much, almost falling asleep, so he leans over and ties it all by himself for the first time!

he smiles proudly and looks up at his parent and tuggs on their shirt.

the parent looks down with anger and pinches the little boy on the arm real hard.

conflicted

My step-dad used to sit in the row behind us and keep a tally-sheet for how many times we looked away from the speaker. That was how many swats we got when we got home. Every meeting. Approved by the elders.

What a great bunch of people.

36

Oz, perhaps?

by AGuest in

jw
friends

freedom allows all opinions and facts to be uncovered.

letting people air everything helps us understand what the issues truly are.

sure some are more unprofessional than others but a person willing to understand what is going on will not worry about the "ad hominem" attack or swearing.

conflicted

Shelby, as a former JW I can tell you that I now take everything I hear in the context of region with a grain of salt. When someone tells me they are speaking for God, or God is speaking through them, I am reminded of the WT organization. They claim God Speaks through them, and when you make similar claims you are sitting in the same boat with them.

I'm sorry if you contest my opinion of your words, but that is the case - I was fooled by the Watchtower, I won't be fooled by you.

40

Experiences: How you know it ain't the 'truth'

by LDH in

jw
friends

please post your experiences here for any lurkers to read.

when i was a teenager, there was a young lady early 20's who had moved into our cong.

she had a newborn son and had just married her worldly boyfriend, the father of the baby.

conflicted

No! This one isn't going to die that fast! I think this type of thread serves a good purpose - both the those reading and learning how life as a JW really is, and also for those posting - to get it off their chests.

Here's another one:

There were alot of elderly in our congregation, and in the course of one year two of the elderly had strokes. One was the aged mother-in-law of the congregation overseer, the other was one of those sisters you see who attend the meetings alone, she was kind of poor, but she was very kind.

When the CO's mom-in-law had her stroke there was a great outpouring of support to the family, at the hospital, and during her recovery. There was a great abundance of love and support, plenty to go around.

Then the other sister had her stroke - I don't know if everyone got 'supported out' or what, but there was nobody to help this poor woman. She had to get driven and picked up from the meetings by her non-believing son because nobody could bother themselves to pick her up.

It was as if once she couln't sell magazines anymore the congregation didn't need her - so they wiped their hands clean of her and would occasionally say hi once in a while while she waited for her ride home.

A very sad way for Jah's people to treat their own.

40

Experiences: How you know it ain't the 'truth'

by LDH in

jw
friends

please post your experiences here for any lurkers to read.

when i was a teenager, there was a young lady early 20's who had moved into our cong.

she had a newborn son and had just married her worldly boyfriend, the father of the baby.

conflicted

My step-father was abusive to my mother and all four kids in the family. He studied for a while, learned the rules and then quit. Then he resumed his former life of drug selling and drug use in our home. He reacted violently when anyone brought up any idea of his changing his ways - after on particularly violent incedent we (my mother and the kids) left him and moved in with the congregation overseer.

The step-dad in the mean time, didn't have to do anything - he knew that we couldn't stay there forever, he knew that we couldn't afford to move elswhere, and he knew he could do anything he wanted except commit adultery and the elders would still be on his side.

He was a vile, evil, disgusting man, and the elders still told my mother he has the right to raise his family as he sees fit. And we were bound by biblical law to abide by his rule as long as it didn't go against God's law.

It was ok for him to use and sell drugs, because he didn't force them on us.
It was ok for him to beat us up, because the bible allows the head of the house to choose the proper punishment to be dealt to the family.
It was ok for him to spend the rent money partying because it didn't stop us from attending meetings or field service.

My family endured all of this BECAUSE the elders defended him. As long as we kept selling magazines they couldn't care less about our well being. And as long as he didn't sleep with anyone else we were forced to stay there - my mother couln't divorce, and we couldn't report anything to the authorities because it might bring reproach upon Jehovah's Organization.

Well I think they deserve reproach!

40

Experiences: How you know it ain't the 'truth'

by LDH in

jw
friends

please post your experiences here for any lurkers to read.

when i was a teenager, there was a young lady early 20's who had moved into our cong.

she had a newborn son and had just married her worldly boyfriend, the father of the baby.

conflicted

Our congregation attended the summer convention at Dodger stadium, so there were a lot of people in attendance. One year our congregation was chosen to help in food services and I volunteered.

When I arrived (2 1/2 hours before the start of the first talk) I reported to "kitchen" - and area under the outfield bleachers where tables were set up for sandwich prep. It didn't take long to find where my congregation was setting up, but when I got there the CO was telling everyone to split up and got to the other tables and meet new people. So off I went, table after table where when I asked if they could use any help I was told "No" - although it was appearant that there was work to be done. Finally I found a place to work, it was a happy table, the witnesses were really having a good time about their chores, and they said it was fine for me to join them, but as soon as I stepped up, SILENCE. And any attempt on my part to liven it back up was shot down swiftly - even my indroducing myself was met with cold replies.

I finished my work in silence, and thought "These are supposed to be 'God's' people? Turning a cold shoulder just because someone isn't immediately familiar?"

How are these people supposed to bring in a new reign of God's kingdom on Earth when they can't even act civil amongst themselves?

(I'll pop in later with some more experiences, Until then - XXOO)

5

Fish vs Cake

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i just recently talked with my sister - she was never a jw.

she is still catholic.

we got off onto why jws don't celebrate birthdays, and how silly she thought it was.

conflicted

Even when I was a loud and proud dub I never understood the holiday thing. I could explain it to others, but I was just repeating what the elders told me. I always thought their excuses for not celebrating were lame - I was 13 or 14 at the time.

Why can a 13 year old kid see that they are bass-ackwards but grown men can't see it?

Bizarro!