Posts by isaacaustin

86

Some christmas spirit, WT style!

by bohm in

jw
friends

well, i know its a bit self-serving since i allready posted this in jwfacts thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/199939/1/watchtower-images-required, but i think its quite funny and things have been kind of serious around here for the past couple of weeks.. it seem to me that when jahs chanel have desided (im kidding, they has been told) the one and true god really hate christmas and will kill you in nasty ways if you go ahead and celebrate it, it provide a pretty compelling case for not celebrating christmas.

but the governing body can make an even stronger case than that: not only will jesus cry and clice you up if you celebrate christmas, you will also have a really bad time.

wow!.

isaacaustin

the pagan WT god has not banned its members from the use of calendars DD. But that can change at any time, with or without notice.

14

Believing JW's , do you agree with anything Debator says ?

by wobble in

i ask because i threw down the challenge on another thread that if any agreed with debator/reniaa's apologetics in any area would they please post so that we can see where jw's are correct in their teachings.. nobody supported deb/ren's points.. i do not ask for a list of "correct" jw teachings, just where is deb/ren's correct presentation of wt/jw beliefs that stand scrutiny and are truth.. if there are none then we do not need to engage in any kind of talk with deb/ren..

isaacaustin

cameo_d check your pm

86

Some christmas spirit, WT style!

by bohm in

jw
friends

well, i know its a bit self-serving since i allready posted this in jwfacts thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/199939/1/watchtower-images-required, but i think its quite funny and things have been kind of serious around here for the past couple of weeks.. it seem to me that when jahs chanel have desided (im kidding, they has been told) the one and true god really hate christmas and will kill you in nasty ways if you go ahead and celebrate it, it provide a pretty compelling case for not celebrating christmas.

but the governing body can make an even stronger case than that: not only will jesus cry and clice you up if you celebrate christmas, you will also have a really bad time.

wow!.

isaacaustin

Reniaa said:

Hi wingcommander

It's a pity you didn't present all this "Evidence" to the Jews and first century Christians that despite seeing pagans celebrating Birthdays around them didn't feel these scriptures allowed for celebrating them unlike you.

My reply: That they felt it was wrong to celbrate these days is unproven, and simply asserted by your pagan god, the GB.

Reniaa said:

BTW col 2:16 is a reference to Jewish festivals not pagans ones and in simply allowing Jewish Christians the personal choice of continuing Jewish festivals if they wanted too. While showing they no longer held the same importance so Gentile Christians where not required to start observing Jewish festivals. It was never seen as a licence to jump into Pagan celebrations.

My reply: However, Romans is not a reference to only Jewish festivals. But let's run with your logic. Go celebrate the Festival of Booths. You would be Dfed as an apostate just as quickly as one celebrating any other holiday. Why has your pagan god the GB taken away from JWs the freedom that even you claim Paul gave them?

Reniaa said:

Angels celebrating Jesus's actual Birth itself as an excuse to pick an entirely different day for his Birthday and celebrate this annually? When clearly the Christians after reading the Gospels did not feel so inclined to do the same. Why didn't we get the date of his Birth from the no less than four Gospels written about him?

My reply: Just irrelevant babble...based on circular reasoning

Reniaa said:

Using out-of-context Scriptures to provide loopholes to do what you want is just dishonest

My reply: Baseless assertion

Reniaa said:

Jesus didn't celebrate Birthdays so I don't!

My reply: Wrong! You do not because your pagan god said you can't.

16

Religious Hate Crimes

by Spade in

jehovah's witnesses derived their policy of excommunication from 1 corinthians 5:9-13, a small fraction of religious text compared to the overall compendium of religious books that the world's religions revolve around.

in my letter i wrote you to quit mixing in company with fornicators, not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters.

otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world.

isaacaustin

Obviously you know about their disfellowshipping policy. But do you know how they view the person? Do you know how they view those who leave their group- not over sin but even over not being able to consciencious reason? They are treated the same as someone kicked out over sin. All members, if they want to remain in good stand must shun that person who left...not even saying hello or acknowledging them. Family interactions are allowed only for necessary family business- not for anything social.

I have a friend who left the organization after 30 years voluntarily, because he could not accept many of their claims. His JW wife of 30 years left him with his JW daughter and he has been shunned ever since 1998. His married son did the same, and he has never been allowed to see his grandchildren. Articles have been printed by the Watchtower...describing those who leave...such as this:

Watchtower 1961 July 15 p.420 A Time and Place for Everything
Jesus encouraged his followers to love their enemies, but God's Word also says to "hate what is bad." When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked. Indicating that Jesus did not mean for us to love the hardened enemies of Jehovah, David expressed this God-approved attitude: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies."-Matt. 5:44; Amos 5:15; Ps. 139:21, 22.

Or here is my favorite:

The Watchtower, November 15, 1952, page 703, Questions from Readers:

"In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshipped [disassociated], how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?

We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. . . Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshipped from his congregation."

16

Religious Hate Crimes

by Spade in

jehovah's witnesses derived their policy of excommunication from 1 corinthians 5:9-13, a small fraction of religious text compared to the overall compendium of religious books that the world's religions revolve around.

in my letter i wrote you to quit mixing in company with fornicators, not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters.

otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world.

isaacaustin

I was raised in the organization from 3 years of age...and attended continuously until I was 23.

I can relate to many of the experiences here and vefiy much of the happenings in the org.

Ask me anything you like.

16

Religious Hate Crimes

by Spade in

jehovah's witnesses derived their policy of excommunication from 1 corinthians 5:9-13, a small fraction of religious text compared to the overall compendium of religious books that the world's religions revolve around.

in my letter i wrote you to quit mixing in company with fornicators, not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters.

otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world.

isaacaustin

Okay, run along.

Whatever you perceive on here as hate pales next to the hatred taught by your wife's newfound cult.

86

Some christmas spirit, WT style!

by bohm in

jw
friends

well, i know its a bit self-serving since i allready posted this in jwfacts thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/199939/1/watchtower-images-required, but i think its quite funny and things have been kind of serious around here for the past couple of weeks.. it seem to me that when jahs chanel have desided (im kidding, they has been told) the one and true god really hate christmas and will kill you in nasty ways if you go ahead and celebrate it, it provide a pretty compelling case for not celebrating christmas.

but the governing body can make an even stronger case than that: not only will jesus cry and clice you up if you celebrate christmas, you will also have a really bad time.

wow!.

isaacaustin

lily, the WT does not mind its members having fun- so long as it is with other members. So, they demonize normal activities that would involve members associating with non-members.

Take b-days vs anniversaries. Anniversaries can easily be banned by the org under the same logic as b-days. One is allowed and the other not. Why?

B-days are done by kids at school and employees at the workplace. By banning members from doing this, the org makes the members stand out as different and not fit in with outsiders, cutting off or majorly hampering their outside association. Wedding anniversaries usually just involve the couple, or couple and close friends- who would presumably be other JWs.

86

Some christmas spirit, WT style!

by bohm in

jw
friends

well, i know its a bit self-serving since i allready posted this in jwfacts thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/199939/1/watchtower-images-required, but i think its quite funny and things have been kind of serious around here for the past couple of weeks.. it seem to me that when jahs chanel have desided (im kidding, they has been told) the one and true god really hate christmas and will kill you in nasty ways if you go ahead and celebrate it, it provide a pretty compelling case for not celebrating christmas.

but the governing body can make an even stronger case than that: not only will jesus cry and clice you up if you celebrate christmas, you will also have a really bad time.

wow!.

isaacaustin

Reniaa said:

Hi chalam

Are you saying Jesus was born on December the 25th?

My reply: Unknown and irrelevant. A day was set aside to honor Jesus birth.

Reniaa said:

Secondly the Bible records two birthday celebrations one by an egyptian pharoah the other by Herod under the influence of roman customs. Birthday celebrating by the nations was clearly well known to both Jews and Christians so what did they think of celebrating birthdays???

My reply: What they thought of birthdays is unrecorded. Simply not part of a culture does not make wrong in the eyes of God.

Reniaa says:

Although many who profess Christ celebrate birthdays, did you know that birthdays were simply not celebrated by those in the early church? Interestingly, there is no hint in the Bible or early writings that Jesus, the apostles, or any true Christians ever celebrated birthdays.

My reply: Blah blah blah....Whether they were or weren't is irrelevant. Absence does not make wrong. Another case of man claiming to know God's thinking when God did not express his view.

Reniaa said:

No early religious/church writing from the second century that I have seen (and I have read most that are available) seems to endorse (or even suggest) the celebration of birthdays by any who professed Christ.

Early christians simply didn't celebrate birthdays or Christmas (Jesus's birthday) It is a tradition drawn from the Romans.

Although he was not part of the Church of God, the writings of the early third century Catholic theologian Origen of Alexandria show that, even that late, Orthodox Catholics were against the celebration of birthdays. The Catholic Encyclopedia states:

It is interesting to note that while the New Testament is clear about the specific time of certain holy days such as Passover (Matthew 26:17-20) and Pentecost (Acts 2:1), it never mentions the date, nor even the precise month, of Jesus' birth (see Matthew 1 and Luke 1;2:1-20). Nor does it ever specifically endorse the celebration of birthdays. Not does it ever give the date (with either a solar or lunar calendar reference) for any one being born.

http://www.cogwriter.com/birthdays.htm

The first century Jewish historian Josephus noted that Jewish families did not celebrate birthdays:

Nay, indeed, the law does not permit us to make festivals at the birth of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess (Josephus. Translated by W. Whiston. Against Apion, Book II, Chapter 26. Extracted from Josephus Complete Works, Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids (MI), 14th printing, 1977, p. 632).
My reply: more empty rants showing that birthday celebrations were not a part of the Jewish culture and nothing else. Failed to prove your point again Reniaa.

172

Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

by oldlightnewshite in

i thought it would be an interesting exercise to ask everybody on here what their 'top 10 reasons why jws don't have the truth' actually were.

maybe we can see some correlating views/patterns/ideas that may help us de-programme the newbies that come on this site.

if eventually most people have an outstanding gripe/concern it'll help everybody understand the ex-jw mindset a little better.

isaacaustin

They both have to be right? LOL

172

Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

by oldlightnewshite in

i thought it would be an interesting exercise to ask everybody on here what their 'top 10 reasons why jws don't have the truth' actually were.

maybe we can see some correlating views/patterns/ideas that may help us de-programme the newbies that come on this site.

if eventually most people have an outstanding gripe/concern it'll help everybody understand the ex-jw mindset a little better.

isaacaustin

Wt quote:

[12]

1950s: The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic. It invites careful and critical examination of its contents in the light of the Scriptures.

My reply: This is belied by the WT later printing that we should accept what Jehovah provides at his bounteous table not with reluctance, and there is no need for deep research, as the org has brothers assigned to do that.