i was on the beth sarim jw reform site today and read some interesting threads from all sorts of folks, including some bible students (you know, of the ones that started off the watchtower but refused to follow the apostate rutherford when he succeeded in his legal coup for control when russell died).
i never could understand the doctrine of the paradise earth hope, which the jws seem to confuse with the millennial kingdom.
anyway, i stole a bit of someones post which i found interesting:there is not one scripture that relegates the hope for those who follow jesus in the narrow way to anything but heaven?
http://community.bethsarim.com/index.php
Fairchild,
Many on the Beth Sarim link do not support the watchtower. It was on the thread called salvations on the discussion board where I came across one of the International Bible Students, here are some real good guys, but also some good arguments.
Im not as cute as my name sounds he he
my 11 year old daughter goes to a catholic school.
although i no longer despise that religion as the anti-christ, as i believed it was when i was a young aventist many years ago, i still do not participate.
i will let my kids make up their own minds.
My 11 year old daughter goes to a catholic school. Although I no longer despise that religion as the anti-christ, as I believed it was when I was a young aventist many years ago, I still do not participate. I will let my kids make up their own minds. I will answer their questions truthfully as my opinions, if and when they ask. I suppose if you can blaspheme against the holy spirit, and the Bible says if one lies to the holy spirit one lies to God, then it figures that you can pray to him/it? So can I show you a little prayer my beloved little girl made up yesterday to take to school:
Prayer to the Holy Spirit
Dear Holy Spirit,
Thank you for being with me every day. Please help me receive some of your seven gifts, wisdom, knowledge, understanding, reverence, right judgement, awe and wonder, and courage. Help me to be loving and caring to others. Please help me to be a patient and joyful person, so other people can share my happiness.
Bless all of the poor people around the world, and the sick people. Please take special care of the young and the old. Help me to be like Jesus and help me do good to other people.
Help me to have faith in God even when things are bad.
Amen
i was on the beth sarim jw reform site today and read some interesting threads from all sorts of folks, including some bible students (you know, of the ones that started off the watchtower but refused to follow the apostate rutherford when he succeeded in his legal coup for control when russell died).
i never could understand the doctrine of the paradise earth hope, which the jws seem to confuse with the millennial kingdom.
anyway, i stole a bit of someones post which i found interesting:there is not one scripture that relegates the hope for those who follow jesus in the narrow way to anything but heaven?
WT 1895 15 September article ?How to Conduct Group Meetings?
Beware of organisation. It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others? consciences and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God?s word today, and so continue growing in grace and knowledge and love day by day.
Fairchild, It seems to me that because of the nature of man, nearly all Christian religions who may start with the best motives, very quickly move away from the true message of the Gospel. The Watchtower has become what it set up to oppose. It has its own disguised clergy and toned down inquisition etc. It is the master of disguise.
i was on the beth sarim jw reform site today and read some interesting threads from all sorts of folks, including some bible students (you know, of the ones that started off the watchtower but refused to follow the apostate rutherford when he succeeded in his legal coup for control when russell died).
i never could understand the doctrine of the paradise earth hope, which the jws seem to confuse with the millennial kingdom.
anyway, i stole a bit of someones post which i found interesting:there is not one scripture that relegates the hope for those who follow jesus in the narrow way to anything but heaven?
Watchtower 1884 February
We belong to no earthly organization?we adhere only to that heavenly organization whose names are written in heave? (Heb 12:23 Luke 10:20)
What think you?...suppose?all man made creeds and forms ?and names were laid aside, or that all Christians met in the One name of Christ, and in earnest simplicity, studied HIS words under the direction of God?s Spirit and the explanations furnished in the Apostles writings, would there be long and serious differences, even of opinion?... And so, by whatsoever names men may call us, it matters not to us; we acknowledge none other name than the only name given under heaven and among men ? Jesus Christ. We call ourselves simply CHRISTIANS and we raise no fence to separate from us any who believe in the foundation stone of our building mentioned by Paul: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and those for whom this is not broad enough have no right to the name Christian.
i was on the beth sarim jw reform site today and read some interesting threads from all sorts of folks, including some bible students (you know, of the ones that started off the watchtower but refused to follow the apostate rutherford when he succeeded in his legal coup for control when russell died).
i never could understand the doctrine of the paradise earth hope, which the jws seem to confuse with the millennial kingdom.
anyway, i stole a bit of someones post which i found interesting:there is not one scripture that relegates the hope for those who follow jesus in the narrow way to anything but heaven?
Watchtower 1882 April, Questions & Answers
We are strictly unsectarian?(read 1 Cor 3:1-4)?we have no creed (fence) to bind us together or keep others out of our company. The Bible is our only Standard, and its teachings our only creed?We are in fellowship with all Christians in whom we can recognise the Spirit of Christ, and especially with those who recognise the Bible as the only Standard. We do not require therefore that all should see just as we do in order to be called Christians, realising that growth and knowledge is a gradual process; nor do we see reason to expect that any but the Watchmen of Zion will ?see eye to eye (Isa 52:8) until that which is perfect is come..(1 Cor
If all Christians were to thus free themselves from prescribed creeds, and study the Word of God without denominational bias, truth and knowledge and real Christian fellowship and unity would result. The Spirit of the Head would pervade the unfettered members of the Body and sectarian pride would vanish.
i was on the beth sarim jw reform site today and read some interesting threads from all sorts of folks, including some bible students (you know, of the ones that started off the watchtower but refused to follow the apostate rutherford when he succeeded in his legal coup for control when russell died).
i never could understand the doctrine of the paradise earth hope, which the jws seem to confuse with the millennial kingdom.
anyway, i stole a bit of someones post which i found interesting:there is not one scripture that relegates the hope for those who follow jesus in the narrow way to anything but heaven?
Watchtower 1881 by the President C T Russell
..their organization was of Spirit; their law for the government of each was love, and all as a whole were put under obedience to ?the law of the Spirit? as it was expressed in the life, actions and words of their Lord.
..it is clearly seen that these present day churches?interpret and enforce the traditions of the elders which make void the Word of God. These take the place of the true Head of the Church ? Jesus and the true teacher and guide to all truth, the Holy Spirit. Hear the prophet Isaiah express it (chap 9:15)
This brings us to our second preposition, viz that all Christians should be joined to this organisation? But says one; Must I not join some organisation on earth, assent to some creed and have my name written on earth? No. Remember that Jesus is your pattern and teacher, and neither in his words or acts will you find any authority for binding yourselves with creeds or traditions of the elders, which all tend to make the word of God of none effect (Mark 7:13) and bring you under a bondage that will hinder your growth in grace and knowledge, and against which Paul warned you to stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made you free, and be not entangled with the yoke of bondage (Gal 5:1}
i was on the beth sarim jw reform site today and read some interesting threads from all sorts of folks, including some bible students (you know, of the ones that started off the watchtower but refused to follow the apostate rutherford when he succeeded in his legal coup for control when russell died).
i never could understand the doctrine of the paradise earth hope, which the jws seem to confuse with the millennial kingdom.
anyway, i stole a bit of someones post which i found interesting:there is not one scripture that relegates the hope for those who follow jesus in the narrow way to anything but heaven?
Fairchild, Before I post pre-Rutherford quotes I cant resist this one I got from a Ray Franz book. It is during the period (1929-1962) when they did not understand Romans 13 correctly, as other Christins did. BTW I think there are many sects of JWs and Bible Students, Dawn Bible students etc....There are many millions of other Christians who are not part of organised religion, some meet with others, some do not. At prsent I worship and study alone due to uncertainties etc and being afraid to trust again. I sincerely love this quote (despite the Romans 13 error)Perhaps Fred Franz really knew the truth after all ?? LOL
Watchtower 1946 Nov 1 page 330, Article Let God Prove to be True
The divisive force among the Catholic and Protestant religionists of Christendom is the religious traditions which they follow. The truth of the Bible is a unifying power. After Christ Jesus prayed: ?Sanctify them through thy Word: thy Word is truth,?he immediately prayed that all his believers, those then following him and those yet due to believe, should be united in one, just as he and His heavenly Father are one (John 17:17-23)
How is disunity over each one?s individual interpretation of the Holy Scriptures now overcome or avoided? Is it because they are united around a visible human organization or around a visible human leader? The answer is No. It is because they recognize Jehovah God and Christ Jesus as The Higher Powers to whom every Christian soul must be subject for conscience? sake (Romans 13:1)
Hence Jehovah?s Witnesses do not claim to be what the religious Hierarchy claims their religious organization to be, namely, the one holding the magisterium or teaching office and hence ?the Divinely appointed Custodian and Interpreter of the Bible.
Another part of the article says:
The written Word of God does not therefore need the addition of traditions which are the private interpretations of man and of religious organisations. It is not on our own authority that we say the Bible is sufficient without such. The inspired Apostle, Paul, writes his faithful and fellow worker Timothy to that effect saying: ?from thy infancy thou hast known the Holy Scriptures, which can instruct thee to salvation, by the faith which is in Jesus Christ. All Scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, that the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work. (2 Tim 3:15-17)
Had the oral traditions of religious men been necessary to complement the Canon of the Bible, Paul would not have said that the inspired Holy Scriptures were profitable to the point of making the men of God perfect in faith and devotion to God. It would have been inadequate and would have left the man of God unperfected?(quotes 2 Tim
i was on the beth sarim jw reform site today and read some interesting threads from all sorts of folks, including some bible students (you know, of the ones that started off the watchtower but refused to follow the apostate rutherford when he succeeded in his legal coup for control when russell died).
i never could understand the doctrine of the paradise earth hope, which the jws seem to confuse with the millennial kingdom.
anyway, i stole a bit of someones post which i found interesting:there is not one scripture that relegates the hope for those who follow jesus in the narrow way to anything but heaven?
I went from here to the Beth Sarim link on the right hand colums, then found JW reform discussion or something similar. I an ralphy on that board.
Hi Fairchild, Be careful, although Russell was benign compared with Rutherford and those since, his false teachings, borrowed from my old religion (Adventists) have a lot to answer for. Russell got the 1914 date in part from the Adventists, but also by measuring the main passage in the great pyramid of Giza...
I have some three or four excellent quotes from old watchtowers 1881 to 1946 if interested. They stand out as occasional beacons of wisdom and truth amongst a load of errors and lies published over 100 years.
i drive by a kh every morning after i drop my son off at his baby sitter.
the thought enters my mind ever day to actually stop in just before the meeting started.
not to disrupt things, mind you.
Thank you Annie, I agree with all you say. The point I was making was that I am not convinced the anti-Christ was in the room, in other words although I believe the JW leadership may be the anti-Christ (which I believe to be a type not an individual) it is just possible that the local congregation elders are unwitting participants. I am trying not to judge the individuals I met, and giving the benefit of doubt.
if a spouse never practiced the religion he/she was born into, are there less chances of them becoming a jehovah witness if their mate studies to become one?
does it make a difference?.
has anyone experienced this?.
That is exactly what is happening to me best mate right now. He ignored his born religion all his life. She became a JW and worked on him, along with the elders for 3 years. He gets baptised soon.
If he had had Biblical grounding, I could have quickly and easily demonstrated to him how unscriptural the JWs are.
